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  1. #181
    People will continually call Anduin out on being too nice but give the guy credit for trying. He's doing his best to balance his strong desire for peace with reasonable, non-naive action.

    I was really surprised to see Faol step out of the shadows for this, I was worried that huge reveal of his character still being "alive" would be limited to the priest order hall.

    Anduin tries to make peace with the horde, Jaina does the opposite, either way someone here will hate them. I'm not sure there's a character in the canon that this forum doesn't despise for some inane reason.

    If this happens, especially if it's represented in-game, I hope they remember to reference this: http://www.wowhead.com/quest=264/until-death-do-us-part They never mention if any of her children survived.
    Last edited by Powerogue; 2018-05-31 at 05:20 PM.

  2. #182
    Quote Originally Posted by Whitedragon View Post
    Ashran calls, turns out you started it.
    That was a marginal conflict in another dimension.

    Stormheim was an alliance strike against the Warchief of the horde.
    Zul'Jin died for our sins.
    --
    My Loa are smiling at me infidel. can you say the same?

  3. #183
    Quote Originally Posted by Trbn View Post
    Attacking ships in stormheim.

    We are not at war.

    Next level of blizzard writing D:
    Anduin didn't order that, Genn and the captain did. Anduin said "only engage if absolutely necessary", and they proceeded to ambush instead.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vonazak View Post
    That was a marginal conflict in another dimension.

    Stormheim was an alliance strike against the Warchief of the horde.
    It was a dissenter strike for revenge against the leader of the Forsaken. Anduin either looked the other way or didn't know about it, we have no way of knowing for sure.

    If I had to headcanon it I would imagine Genn and Rogers would have lied to Anduin and said the forsaken shot first.
    Last edited by Powerogue; 2018-05-31 at 05:32 PM.

  4. #184
    Quote Originally Posted by Ersula View Post
    She gave him exactly what he asked for
    "a single day's compassion" - nope, nope she didn't. About half an hour before she killed them all in-front of their families - something something Arthas.

  5. #185
    Quote Originally Posted by Aucald View Post
    To my knowledge, they aren't at war - no war was formally declared between the Alliance and Horde during Legion prior to BfA and no forces mobilized to attack to Horde or Alliance positions prior to that either. The conflict in Stormheim was basically just a skirmish, and neither the Alliance nor the Horde felt compelled to declare war because of it (for whatever reasons).
    well, yes, probably war wasn't declared. But does really declaration matter? There were a lot of wars started silently without a word. Horde got attacked. This is hostile act why should they declare war on alliance if it is clear for Horde and sylvanas that there's no more peace? And what reallly would have changed if war was declared? Factions didn't interact at all through legion except stormheim.

    Quote Originally Posted by Powerogue View Post
    Anduin didn't order that, Genn and the captain did. Anduin said "only engage if absolutely necessary", and they proceeded to ambush instead.
    and how does it matter?

    And if it does, so... Ok, Anduin didn't give that order s that means Genn is war criminal and he must be judged by a military tribunal because he endangered safety of number of alliance races, right?

  6. #186
    Quote Originally Posted by musicallittle1 View Post
    Why isn't warchief capitalized? Is it always like that?

    Also, the writing in this letter is crap. I hope the quests are written better than the stuff being released lately.
    Sylvanas isn't worth the capitalization.

  7. #187
    Moderator Aucald's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trbn View Post
    well, yes, probably war wasn't declared. But does really declaration matter? There were a lot of wars started silently without a word. Horde got attacked. This is hostile act why should they declare war on alliance if it is clear for Horde and sylvanas that there's no more peace? And what reallly would have changed if war was declared? Factions didn't interact at all through legion except stormheim.
    Formal declaration is what makes a war a "war," outside of that you just have a series of escalating hostilities and skirmishes. Regardless of meeting or not, no one in Legion talks about or recognizes an ongoing war save the one against the Legion itself - and that's really what it takes to formalize a war. In BfA the war is on everyone's lips in both the Horde and the Alliance, so you know it's been formalized by the people if not the leaders. The conflict in Stormheim is remote and barely spoken of at all (although this is perhaps understandable as both factions already have their hands full with the ongoing Legion invasion), which is part and parcel of what makes it a non-starter for a true war.
    "We're more of the love, blood, and rhetoric school. Well, we can do you blood and love without the rhetoric, and we can do you blood and rhetoric without the love, and we can do you all three concurrent or consecutive. But we can't give you love and rhetoric without the blood. Blood is compulsory. They're all blood, you see." ― Tom Stoppard, Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are Dead

  8. #188
    Quote Originally Posted by Trbn View Post
    and how does it matter?

    And if it does, so... Ok, Anduin didn't give that order s that means Genn is war criminal and he must be judged by a military tribunal because he endangered safety of number of alliance races, right?
    Yes. He should be on trial. That would be morally superior. Something the alliance claims they have. :P

  9. #189
    Epic! Whitedragon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vonazak View Post
    That was a marginal conflict in another dimension.

    Stormheim was an alliance strike against the Warchief of the horde.
    Funny how you can attack a major alliance settlement and that's okay but all bets are off when afterwords you are attacked back. It's also funny that Genn ended up saving us all from the ramifications of Sylvanas's greed, where Odin refuses us the aegis because the mortals enslaved his prized followers and made a deal with his greatest enemy to do it.

  10. #190
    Quote Originally Posted by Aucald View Post
    Formal declaration is what makes a war a "war," outside of that you just have a series of escalating hostilities and skirmishes. Regardless of meeting or not, no one in Legion talks about or recognizes an ongoing war save the one against the Legion itself - and that's really what it takes to formalize a war. In BfA the war is on everyone's lips in both the Horde and the Alliance, so you know it's been formalized by the people if not the leaders. The conflict in Stormheim is remote and barely spoken of at all (although this is perhaps understandable as both factions already have their hands full with the ongoing Legion invasion), which is part and parcel of what makes it a non-starter for a true war.
    nobody was talking about war because of mmo problems of story-telling, game mechanics e.t.c. We just didn't have any horde character (except liadrin) on screen for 3 patches. Of course nobody talked about war, just nobody had a chance. Yes in bfa war officialy started but for my point of view reason is much more weaker than what happened in stormheim

    ot:Hitler attacked Stalin without declaration of war.

  11. #191
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trbn View Post
    nobody was talking about war because of mmo problems of story-telling, game mechanics e.t.c. We just didn't have any horde character (except liadrin) on screen for 3 patches. Of course nobody talked about war, just nobody had a chance. Yes in bfa war officialy started but for my point of view reason is much more weaker than what happened in stormheim
    Legion is full of NPC interactions with important figures high in both the Alliance and Horde governments, not to mention civilians and merchants of all stripes. No one brings up the topic of war between the Alliance and Horde, and one important person (Matthias Shaw of Stormwind's SI:7) explicitly confirms the Horde and Alliance aren't at war during the Rogue Order Hall campaign. Things are tense between the two after the disastrous Broken Shore incident, but while the occasional conflict happens (e.g. Stormheim) there hasn't been a declaration of all-out hostility. Detheroc (masquerading as Shaw in Stormwind) is actually trying to get a war started during his time there, pouring poison and false intel into the ears of Anduin and the Alliance leadership until the Uncrowned successfully infiltrate Stormwind and the SI:7 compound then assassinate Detheroc before he can succeed.
    "We're more of the love, blood, and rhetoric school. Well, we can do you blood and love without the rhetoric, and we can do you blood and rhetoric without the love, and we can do you all three concurrent or consecutive. But we can't give you love and rhetoric without the blood. Blood is compulsory. They're all blood, you see." ― Tom Stoppard, Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are Dead

  12. #192
    Quote Originally Posted by Verdugo View Post
    I want it to be a decapitated messengers head with "I accept" cut into his forehead.
    That would be badass AF, but we can't have that, Sylvanas is supposed to be "conflicted".

  13. #193
    Quote Originally Posted by FelPlague View Post
    I think you dont know what a mary sue is, because he is not a mary sue is really many words of the term.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Uhhh what kind of tumblr level fanon is this.
    I was having a little fun, but to be more serious now.. most likely Odyn wouldn't have cared if Eyir was taken since he could just elevate another to replace her. I am a little confused about Odyn's character overall because he seems to not care if Skovald gets the Aegis, but he also tried assasinating Skovald's family. It kind of conflicts with his "I don't care as long as you win in battle mantra." I am probably overthinking this. also, We still don't know how Sylvanas learned about Hellya/the lantern. We just kind of randomly find her there by coincidence and then it is never explained further. There was no dialogue or appearance of Sylvanas during the trial of valor patch or what the bargain was. I hope it is talked about in golden's book because it is a very important story element that seems to have been completely ignored.

  14. #194
    Deleted
    Anduin confirmed to be a "nice guy".

  15. #195
    Moderator Aucald's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GreenJesus View Post
    I was having a little fun, but to be more serious now.. most likely Odyn wouldn't have cared if Eyir was taken since he could just elevate another to replace her. I am a little confused about Odyn's character overall because he seems to not care if Skovald gets the Aegis, but he also tried assasinating Skovald's family. It kind of conflicts with his "I don't care as long as you win in battle mantra." I am probably overthinking this. also, We still don't know how Sylvanas learned about Hellya/the lantern. We just kind of randomly find her there by coincidence and then it is never explained further. There was no dialogue or appearance of Sylvanas during the trial of valor patch or what the bargain was. I hope it is talked about in golden's book.
    I think Odyn's nonchalance about the Aegis is an act he's putting on for Skovald - he cares, but he's not going to give Skovald the impression that he does, nor even the satisfaction that Skovald was important enough to directly act to undermine. No one seemed to know Odyn was behind the deaths of Skovald's family until the Mage Tower quest-line, after all, so that was apparently all very "behind the scenes" on Odyn's part. Not sure about Odyn's extent of care for Eyir as the two never really interact directly that I know of - but given his nature he probably has more of a "she can protect herself, and if she can't then she doesn't deserve the title of Queen" kind of approach to her safety. Eyir is certainly no slouch given the power of the Valarjar Val'kyr.

    Sylvanas probably learned of Helya from her own Val'kyr, who as psychopomps and denizens of the Shadowlands would probably know something of her and probably her history. In the Stormheim intro scenario Sylvanas explicitly mentions "beings with power over life and death" which seems to imply she knew such a being still existed and whose presence was tied to Stormheim in some capacity. She had a lead into what she wanted to find, and it was only a hop, skip, and a jump until she found herself in Helheim in the presence of Helya.
    "We're more of the love, blood, and rhetoric school. Well, we can do you blood and love without the rhetoric, and we can do you blood and rhetoric without the love, and we can do you all three concurrent or consecutive. But we can't give you love and rhetoric without the blood. Blood is compulsory. They're all blood, you see." ― Tom Stoppard, Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are Dead

  16. #196
    The Patient
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wyrt View Post
    Pretty sure he's Lawful Mary Sue.
    Pretty sure you're yet another person who has no clue what "mary sue" actually means, and just think it makes you sound intelligent.

  17. #197
    Quote Originally Posted by Aucald View Post
    Sylvanas probably learned of Helya from her own Val'kyr, who as psychopomps and denizens of the Shadowlands would probably know something of her and probably her history. In the Stormheim intro scenario Sylvanas explicitly mentions "beings with power over life and death" which seems to imply she knew such a being still existed and whose presence was tied to Stormheim in some capacity. She had a lead into what she wanted to find, and it was only a hop, skip, and a jump until she found herself in Helheim in the presence of Helya.
    You'd think she'd go for it immediately. The val'kyr had been with her since Cataclysm started yet she waited for 3 expansions to look for the thing she wanted all along.
    Quote Originally Posted by Thunderaan View Post
    All it takes is an incel at the wrong place wrong time and we won't even know what hit us.

  18. #198
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    Quote Originally Posted by OIS View Post
    You'd think she'd go for it immediately. The val'kyr had been with her since Cataclysm started yet she waited for 3 expansions to look for the thing she wanted all along.
    One would think so, although perhaps the Val'kyr wanted to play this one close to the vest - or else it didn't get to that point until they had been winnowed down to only a few left and needed a way to replenish their numbers. Or perhaps they didn't know enough to pinpoint Helya's location until later, and it just happened to coincide with the campaign in the Broken Isles.
    "We're more of the love, blood, and rhetoric school. Well, we can do you blood and love without the rhetoric, and we can do you blood and rhetoric without the love, and we can do you all three concurrent or consecutive. But we can't give you love and rhetoric without the blood. Blood is compulsory. They're all blood, you see." ― Tom Stoppard, Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are Dead

  19. #199
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trbn View Post
    oh, cmon who cares about moral correctness.

    just look at the letter

    "We are not currently at war" direct speech. which is 100% incorrect (factually) especially after you attack warchief. You can't call it local conflict. It's a war.

    I really don't care what happened back then because it doesn't matter in this context. I just loling at blizzard writing where Anduin can think that he's not at war with horde after genn and that admiral actions (even if that actions weren't authorized).

    no country army can attack someones HQ and then say "SORRY GUYS OUR TROOPS WENT ROGUE"
    I can call it a peanut run or a pineapple parade. It won't matter. Until blizz calls it a war it won't be a war. The narrative they are pushing is one of morals apparently given their new found love for words such as "proving himself" "morally grey" "toxic masculinity".

    I guess what they are trying to push is that after the legions defeat we have another "tense peace".

    What happened back then does matter in the sense that the two factions have been in a stupid tit for tat battle since time began. The alliance can't stop with the "but they big bad meanies" and the horde just cant seem to figure out it's code of ethics "guys really we are honorable this time I swear. The new horde #24533 for life".

    The dude who attacked the warchief is a king in his own right and honestly he can't lose much anymore. Unless in this expac sylv goes after his daughter (I do see that happening, this time if stormhiem repeats itself she will have leverage). The alliance military doesn't work exactly like the horde. Like I said they haven't given alot of info on it, but enough to show that it's different.

    Moral correctness is the only avenue they have left given that they want to puruse another faction war (stupid really). Though I do think just like cata, this faction war will resolve Midway and we will once again be singing kumbaya by raid 3.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Hubbl3 View Post
    Yes. He should be on trial. That would be morally superior. Something the alliance claims they have. :P
    Blizz will never open that gate because that means to trial sylva nas for South shore and gilneas. And we all know how much of a mess that will be.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Trbn View Post
    well, yes, probably war wasn't declared. But does really declaration matter? There were a lot of wars started silently without a word. Horde got attacked. This is hostile act why should they declare war on alliance if it is clear for Horde and sylvanas that there's no more peace? And what reallly would have changed if war was declared? Factions didn't interact at all through legion except stormheim.


    and how does it matter?

    And if it does, so... Ok, Anduin didn't give that order s that means Genn is war criminal and he must be judged by a military tribunal because he endangered safety of number of alliance races, right?
    U want to start a trial on a king fighting a warchief when they were never friends and have had beef for years. Anduin would be a fool to do so because it would require sylvannas to be held in the same trial by her people and that wouldn't happen. Not to mention the issue with a deal with helya and her relation with odyn and us acquiring the aegis while skovald is literally breathing down our necks for it.

    I can understand you are upset about this but u have to see that blizz likes the back and forth faction war. Which requires things to be related. Which means that you cannot trial Genn without bringing gilneas and his son in the mix. Also morals because that's what trials do.

    Should we go and slam a trial on sylvannas for killing her own people? (Not a good idea or proper).
    Blood Elves were based on a STRONG request from a poll of Asian players where many remarked on the Horde side that they and their girlfriends wanted a non-creepy femme race to play (Source)

  20. #200
    Blizzard seems to like hitting the reset button between expansions.

    Wrathgate, Vatian at undercity and broken front? Well The Shattering says horde and alliance aren't fighting now.

    All the cata conflicts? Well in tides of war there doesn't seem to be any active fighting until Garrosh marches on Theramore.

    MoP for ince explicitly ends the conflict in its climax.

    Fighting in Ashran? Not mentioned in Legion.

    Stormheim and Sithus? Well too late we hit the conflict reset button so bfa can start fresh!

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