Would people who dislike modern SW kindly tells what exactly they find ''SJW'' ?

[Deleted]

Strong rumours floating around the net that Kathleen Kennedy will either resign or get fired in the very near future. Disney execs have finally realised that alienating your core fans and saturating the films with political agendas hurts the bottom line. Probably to be replaced with Dave Filoni. If true, there's hope for the franchise yet.

While that wouldn't be bad, I don't think Disney will be able to do that - Kennedy is well established with decades of hit producer credits behind her, and I would imagine her contract would be bulletproof

Firing/sidelining her would PR very badly and make it look like Star Wars is falling apart, prompting media calls of "has Star Wars become the next DCEU" etc - the headlines practically write themselves

Johnson on the other hand might, one year down the line, find his own trilogy perpetually in contract limbo

[Aurrora]

Expanded fiction doesn't count for this argument, and frankly the old EU created an amount of time between the films that isn't plausible, just to give themselves room to create more fiction. The films give us every reason to believe RoTJ follows shortly after ESB.

It doesn't matter if you believe it or not, it's canon, there's a year between the start of ESB and the start of RotJ.

I think you've projected a lot of your own politics onto this scene to create a narrative for yourself that isn't in the film.

Rose knows Canto Bight is run by arms dealers who sold weapons to terrorists who used them to kill billions. Trillions?

It's confirmed. It's not just her fucking imagination.

If she knew this she would have just fucking said it, yes the First Order and the Resistance received arms from people who visited Canto Bight but its impossible the majority of Canto Bight's inhabitants to have been arms dealers.

"Social justice warrior" is kind of a litmus test for what kind of person you are. If it sounds like an insult to you, you're probably a piece of shit.

Social Justice Warriors are zealots. They are to social activists what Isis is to Islam and witch hunters were to Christianity. If it doesn't sound like an insult to you, you're probably a piece of shit.

If it's not on screen you can't count it, otherwise I can just insist that Rey got months of off-screen training that nobody saw.

No character is shown using the restroom in a Star Wars movie, are we to take this to mean they don't poop?

Rey can't have had months of off-screen training time because the story was constrained to a finite amount of time that the stupid chase could last.

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I don't understand the premise of this thread... what if I thought the movies are now just bad and not SJW?

Too bad, if you didn't like the movies you're an Alt-Right/Nazi/White Supremacist.

[Snuffleupagus]

Too bad, if you didn't like the movies you're an Alt-Right/Nazi/White Supremacist.

Seems like an excellent way to stifle legitimate criticism of the films.

[Aurrora]

Seems like an excellent way to stifle legitimate criticism of the films.

Yep /10char

[Torto]

While that wouldn't be bad, I don't think Disney will be able to do that - Kennedy is well established with decades of hit producer credits behind her, and I would imagine her contract would be bulletproof

Firing/sidelining her would PR very badly and make it look like Star Wars is falling apart, prompting media calls of "has Star Wars become the next DCEU" etc - the headlines practically write themselves

Johnson on the other hand might, one year down the line, find his own trilogy perpetually in contract limbo

One theory which sounds plausible is Kathleen Kennedy wants to get fired so she can pursue her passion of leading the #metoo movement and other feminists man hating pursuits. Not many people are doubting she hates Star Wars and Star Wars fans and she wants out of her contract. Johnson has zero chance of getting his own trilogy, there is just too much friction between him and the fans he constantly trolls.

[Macaquerie]

Seems like an excellent way to stifle legitimate criticism of the films.

Criticism of the films hasn't been stifled though, unless you've completely cut yourself off from the internet you've seen a continuous stream of bad press for the series over the last six months. The reason that this gets dismissed as just alt right nonsense is because, aside from a vague suggestion that Star Wars has suddenly gone SJW and that this is the worst thing ever, the critics of the film can't really seem to agree on anything about it that they didn't like.

[Deleted]

the critics of the film can't really seem to agree on anything about it that they didn't like.

This is some weird cult logic, there's plenty that people agree on was terrible in TLJ: terrible plot, terrible characters, unwelcome political indoctrination and disrespect of the lore

Oh you mean the critics who thought Ghostbusters 2016 was a great movie and Rey isn't a Mary Sue and anyone who says bad things about either movie is just a Nazi?

Yeah those people are cunts

[Macaquerie]

This is some weird cult logic, there's plenty that people agree on was terrible in TLJ: terrible plot, terrible characters, unwelcome political indoctrination and disrespect of the lore

Oh you mean the critics who thought Ghostbusters 2016 was a great movie and Rey isn't a Mary Sue and anyone who says bad things about either movie is just a Nazi?

Yeah those people are cunts

I mean, someone made this entire thread just so people could talk about what they didn't like about TLJ, and as far as I can tell, the bulk of the posts deal with the pressing issue of whether Rey had enough Jedi training to be able to fight convincingly against Kylo Ren or not, and whether or not there was enough supporting evidence in the EU to the contrary.

[Xath]

This isn't an argument over canon, this is about a comparison between Rey and Luke as presented in the films.

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I don't care that you don't care. Checkmate.

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There are not two years between them.

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As far as I am aware, an exact timeline between the two was never given in either G-canon or C-canon. As I've said, the films strongly imply little time has elapsed, but again, it's completely irrelevant because Luke a) had no training in this period from either Yoda or Ben because he doesn't see them again until after escaping Jabba's palace, and b) he didn't even have a fucking lightsaber until he built the green one on Tatooine.

And you've basically conceded the point. Luke received no lightsaber duelling training at all before facing Vader. The end.

It's a year from the end of empire but empire takes place over about 6 to 8 months so I guess 1.5 years if you want to be perfectly accurate. Did you not notice luke got his butt kicked until he started falling to the dark? It wasn't about embracing the force it was about falling to the dark giving into his anger and using sheer strength to overpower vader nothing to do with technique. If anything the little technique he had degraded into smashing downwards as hard as he could.

Rey is a Mary Sue just accept it already. Luke isn't he constantly needs help to save him. Even his big hero moment is throwing his weapon aside and accepting death rather than fall to darkness but daddy comes and saves him at the cost of his life.

Also the timeline of TFA TLJ is sub one week https://www.inverse.com/article/3762...-force-awakens TLJ begins literally the second after the final scene of TFA.

[Alixie]

But why did they have to dress her like a modern feminist going to a rally?

We treat female military officers differently than their male counterparts.

One, men are considered the default for leadership roles and heroes. As demonstrated by the second post in this topic, people have no problem accepting a male hero for what he is, but if the hero is female, THEN she needs a justified reason to exist.

Two, female officers are expected to be affable, kind, and compromising. Only men are allowed to be a "General Hardass", and wouldnt be expected to undermine their own authority. People wanted her to basically let Poe be in charge, and deal with his tantrums with motherly patience and grace. Rather than not act like an Admiral and let him get away with disobedience and mutiny.


Three, women are expected to look like the men they are "stealing their jobs from". Signs of femininity are considered weak and not serious, and people think that purple hair and a dress is mocking her status, not that detractors would like her with a proper uniform anyway. Un-ironically, the Resistance, a ragtag group of diversity. Leia is less interested in enforcing one culture's dress code, than say, getting her goddamn pilots to stop disobeying orders and going maverick whenever they feel like it.

The First Order does parallel the Resistance with its conformity and the latter's lack of, however they also have leaders who are free to dress in stupid outfits too. Including Snoke's gold bathrobes, and Kylo's Darth Vader Jr cosplay. Suddenly, purple hair isnt that silly in comparison.

[Snuffleupagus]

Criticism of the films hasn't been stifled though, unless you've completely cut yourself off from the internet you've seen a continuous stream of bad press for the series over the last six months. The reason that this gets dismissed as just alt right nonsense is because, aside from a vague suggestion that Star Wars has suddenly gone SJW and that this is the worst thing ever, the critics of the film can't really seem to agree on anything about it that they didn't like.

So people now have to agree unanimously on what parts they dislike?

What?

[XangXu]

We treat female military officers differently than their male counterparts.

One, men are considered the default for leadership roles and heroes. As demonstrated by the second post in this topic, people have no problem accepting a male hero for what he is, but if the hero is female, THEN she needs a justified reason to exist.

Two, female officers are expected to be affable, kind, and compromising. Only men are allowed to be a "General Hardass", and wouldnt be expected to undermine their own authority. People wanted her to basically let Poe be in charge, and deal with his tantrums with motherly patience and grace. Rather than not act like an Admiral and let him get away with disobedience and mutiny.


Three, women are expected to look like the men they are "stealing their jobs from". Signs of femininity are considered weak and not serious, and people think that purple hair and a dress is mocking her status, not that detractors would like her with a proper uniform anyway. Un-ironically, the Resistance, a ragtag group of diversity. Leia is less interested in enforcing one culture's dress code, than say, getting her goddamn pilots to stop disobeying orders and going maverick whenever they feel like it.

The First Order does parallel the Resistance with its conformity and the latter's lack of, however they also have leaders who are free to dress in stupid outfits too. Including Snoke's gold bathrobes, and Kylo's Darth Vader Jr cosplay. Suddenly, purple hair isnt that silly in comparison.

Did you copy-paste that from a Sarkisian speech?

Women heros don’t need to justify anything. I can enjoy a female hero simply because she’s cool. She has a badass story to tell and I want to witness it.

Anyone telling you that women heros aren’t good enough are feminists and they will never be satisfied... ever...

I liked Rey. I still like Rey.

I think Rey is a better hero than “I wanna go buy power converters” Skywalker.

People’s issues with the new movies aren’t really because they have SJW overtones, it’s because they are forced into the story and we can see them plain as day... it’s distracts from the main story.

Like, yes, very good, you have a lady general in the star wars universe, look at how progressive you are. What was wrong with Leia?

Oh the actor died? Fuck my life.

[Huulo]

Saying that she's a little spooked is not really a challenge to her character. How much was she challenged in TFA? Her progression is a lot smoother than Luke's ever was, that's a fact. Also her seeming brilliance at the things she does with little effort:

- Rey is able to mind control when she barely realises she's Force sensitive.
- Is able to pilot and fix the Falcon better than Han and Chewie.
- Is able to put Luke on his arse in a fight.
- Can take on Snoke's elite guard.

Etc.

These are much stronger circumstances than "refusing to take a lightsaber" or "fails at her Jedi lessons" when Luke failed her as a fait accompli. Of course she gets tossed around by Snoke, he's the equivalent of a Sith Lord. It would have been ridiculous even by Rian Johnson's standards to break even with someone like that. Pity he got wasted.

Salvaging a starfighter doesn't mean you're a competent pilot, especially with something as unique as the Falcon. Even the best mechanics are going to struggle driving a top of the line racing car. A "small ship", you need to elaborate here, because landspeeders don't count. If she was actually a well-written, interesting character, she would not suddenly be a better pilot than Han and Chewie. She is able to fix the Falcon faster than Chewie with decades of experience on the Falcon and an astromech droid in the relatively short time she had on that ship. That's precisely why people call her a Mary Sue.

Such as? The first instance we see with Luke using the Force is deflecting blaster bolts with his sight being blocked by an eye shield. Even a simple pull of a lightsaber in ESB was a big effort for him. His Force use was minimal and certainly wasn't on the level of Rey's.

Luke did A LOT more with the force in his first movie than Rey. He blows up the Death Star after they spend the whole movie hyping it up as the most powerful thing ever. Also, he's better at piloting an X-wing and more confident than the experienced pilot. Rey has spend her whole life salvaging, so it makes sense she would understand a hodgepodge like the Falcon.

Considering that Luke had a much more stable childhood than Rey, I think it's clear that she had to overcome a lot more than he did. Rey had to fight for her life on a regular basis. Also, it's pretty clear why she can do a Jedi-mind trick. Kylo Ren accidentally taught her how.

Ironically, you've proven my point with your own example. Luke uses the force to move objects when he has no training, proving that it is possible. She barely does this one time, diverting the path of a light saber after Kylo Ren had lifted it.

Honestly, I could go on, but you're really missing the big picture. There's no amount of logic twisting that can make Luke not a "mary sue" while Rey is. The whole point of Star Wars is watching people do amazing things with unrealistic powers. Special effects have come a long way since the 70's, so really it would be a better movie if they showed her doing much more interesting things with her powers than Luke. So far that hasn't happened, but I'm holding out hope for the third movie.

Here's a tip to improve your writing: typing "etc" reads as "I have no other point to make, but please imagine that I do."

[Aurrora]

have leaders who are free to dress in stupid outfits too. Including Snoke's gold bathrobes, and Kylo's Darth Vader Jr cosplay. Suddenly, purple hair isnt that silly in comparison.

Who aren't part of the First Order's military, "You presumed to command my army?"

No one had an issue with Mon Mothma in a dress in Return of the Jedi because she wasn't holding a military rank.

No one is saying a female commander can't be "General Hardass" but if she is she better look the part. "signs of femininity"? The men aren't allowed to wear whatever they feel like either. If appearing feminine is more important to a character than wearing a military's uniform it points to where their priorities are, and its not with being a serious leader.

She didn't have to let Poe be in charge, but she shouldn't have been pretending she didn't have a plan for no apparent reason other than to facilitate a mutiny plot. Not to mention the plan she did have revolved around the First Order's sensor technicians being incompetents, requiring DJ to tell them "hey use this button".

That whole sideplot is written to give the message "listen and believe" the women in charge. Never mind that the message of the last movie to come out was the exact opposite: the Empire was only defeated because the crew of Rogue One refused to follow orders and attacked Scariff on their own.

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Luke did A LOT more with the force in his first movie than Rey. He blows up the Death Star after they spend the whole movie hyping it up as the most powerful thing ever.

You must be joking, all Luke did with the force was to perform a shot that could reasonably be expected of expert starfighter pilots.

Also, it's pretty clear why she can do a Jedi-mind trick. Kylo Ren accidentally taught her how.

The mind probe, not the mind trick. The second film really could have used this as the excuse for Rey's sudden proficiency in the force. Instead Rey went from being a junkrat to being the equal of a dark side force user that had years of training under his belt in a couple weeks.

Ironically, you've proven my point with your own example. Luke uses the force to move objects when he has no training, proving that it is possible. She barely does this one time, diverting the path of a light saber after Kylo Ren had lifted it.

Luke had three years of practicing between ANH and ESB with Obi-Wan's journal giving him tutelage, and even then its shown as a Herculean effort to pull it out of the snow, Rey has mastered it in a matter of days: First to claim Anakin's saber in VII over Kylo, then using it in the fight with Luke, then attempting to take back her saber from Snoke, then taking Kylo's saber and finally stalemating in a force pull contest with Kylo.

You know, it's ok for Rey to be unreasonably powerful if that's the story they want to tell, but you guys really need to stop fucking pretending that Luke and Anakin's development was anything like Rey's.

[Mormolyce]

It doesn't matter if you believe it or not, it's canon, there's a year between the start of ESB and the start of RotJ.

Well you've gotten really hung up on this irrelevant point in order to play canon police. So while we're here: prove it.

If she knew this she would have just fucking said it, yes the First Order and the Resistance received arms from people who visited Canto Bight but its impossible the majority of Canto Bight's inhabitants to have been arms dealers.

Why are you even arguing this point? Face it, she did know. And how is the percentage of Canto Bight's citizens who are arms dealers even a relevant point?

Social Justice Warriors are zealots. They are to social activists what Isis is to Islam and witch hunters were to Christianity. If it doesn't sound like an insult to you, you're probably a piece of shit.

That's not what those words mean, that's the narrative you've been spun by a bunch of shitlords. Also not canon

Rey can't have had months of off-screen training time because the story was constrained to a finite amount of time that the stupid chase could last.

And Luke's time is constrained by the amount of time it takes him to catch up to Lando who left for Tatooine at the end of Empire. Did Lando wait a year on Tatooine?

But if you can fit an arbitrary number of adventures in there, I can fit arbitrary Rey adventures anywhere I like too.

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It's a year from the end of empire but empire takes place over about 6 to 8 months so I guess 1.5 years if you want to be perfectly accurate. Did you not notice luke got his butt kicked until he started falling to the dark? It wasn't about embracing the force it was about falling to the dark giving into his anger and using sheer strength to overpower vader nothing to do with technique. If anything the little technique he had degraded into smashing downwards as hard as he could.

What do you think Rey tapped into in her fight with Kylo?

I'm sorry but no, it's not plausible that it was a year and a half between Empire and Jedi, and even if it was, we know Luke didn't receive lightsaber training in that time and EVEN IF HE DID, it wasn't shown on screen. So just like Rey, Luke received no lightsaber vs lightsaber combat training before defeating Vader who was allegedly one of the greatest saber duellists of his time in the old Republic when training and saber forms were at their zenith.

Luke's training consists of one intro-to-blast-deflection tutorial that takes about five minutes and he barely gets the hang of on the Falcon, and a weekend course at the Y on Dagobah where he struggles to lift rocks. He then leaves to face Vader and Yoda tells him he's not ready and needs to complete his training. But then in Jedi, despite him getting his hand cut off and nearly killed, he suddenly needs no further training.

Why? Because he's a dreaded MERRY SEW???? No, it's because IT'S JUST A MOVIE. Only nerds like you and me care about things like power levels and appropriate levels of training. Most people watching the film didn't want to see Luke do more training in Jedi because they already saw that in Empire. That's why.

[Deldavala]

Luke's training consists of one intro-to-blast-deflection tutorial that takes about five minutes and he barely gets the hang of on the Falcon, and a weekend course at the Y on Dagobah where he struggles to lift rocks. He then leaves to face Vader and Yoda tells him he's not ready and needs to complete his training. But then in Jedi, despite him getting his hand cut off and nearly killed, he suddenly needs no further training.

Why? Because he's a dreaded MERRY SEW???? No, it's because IT'S JUST A MOVIE. Only nerds like you and me care about things like power levels and appropriate levels of training. Most people watching the film didn't want to see Luke do more training in Jedi because they already saw that in Empire. That's why.

The whole training on Dagobah is a huge plothole. It seems like he is there for a couple of days, but for the Falcon to reach Bespin at sublight levels(hyperdrive was busted) would take 1100 years. It is explained later that he had some sort of slower backup Hyperdrive that would make the trip in like 6 months. There is also the added "fact" that time on Dagobah moves differently than elsewhere due to force shenanigans and that the planet was chosen for training purposes since it accelerates training(kinda like a Hyperbolic Time Chamber from DBZ)

[sarahtasher]

A is wrong as far as Luke goes. Once again the Falcon had a broken hyperdrive it likely took them months to reach Bespin. That entire time Luke was training 1 on 1 with Yoda who is perhaps the greatest jedi master since the days of Revan.

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If you honestly reduce Leia down to that your opinion is pathetic and worth nothing at all.

Really, do you really think that the best task force of the Imperial Navy spent months parked at Bespin ? While ESRB is (thankfully) vague on the time elapsed, it's a matter of days, weeks, not months.

[Mormolyce]

The whole training on Dagobah is a huge plothole. It seems like he is there for a couple of days, but for the Falcon to reach Bespin at sublight levels(hyperdrive was busted) would take 1100 years. It is explained later that he had some sort of slower backup Hyperdrive that would make the trip in like 6 months. There is also the added "fact" that time on Dagobah moves differently than elsewhere due to force shenanigans and that the planet was chosen for training purposes since it accelerates training(kinda like a Hyperbolic Time Chamber from DBZ)

Oh, the whole hyperspace and distances thing... yeah.

I mean, this is the series of "less than 12 parsecs" let's not forget!

They did their best to fanwank that one away in the EU but there's no way I believe Lucas knew it was a unit of distance when he wrote it aha.

[Deldavala]

Oh, the whole hyperspace and distances thing... yeah.

I mean, this is the series of "less than 12 parsecs" let's not forget!

They actually explain the 12 Parsecs in the new Solo Movie(which is better than TLJ IMO). Star Wars as a whole have some issues with time.

I also have a theory where Rey trains with Luke more than a few days(as we are led to believe), but the time on the Island and what is happening elsewhere is out of sync untill she has the Force-Call with Kylo. That makes a lot of the other weird plotholes from TLJ be abit more explained, still bad directing though.

[sarahtasher]

Strong rumours floating around the net that Kathleen Kennedy will either resign or get fired in the very near future. Disney execs have finally realised that alienating your core fans and saturating the films with political agendas hurts the bottom line. Probably to be replaced with Dave Filoni. If true, there's hope for the franchise yet.

Rumors as ''a dude with a fedorah told me so on YouTube ?'' Don't wonder how people can fall into Nazism or the like-people can be brainwashed into hating as a public enemy to be exterminated completely random ''feminists''. Your kind wake up at night to hate and invent kindergarden plots to destroy Kathleen Kennedy-you would send death threats to your own mothers if your agitprop handlers ordered you to.