Demo Changes!

[Shandalar]

Is the optimal way of utilizing Nether Portal still "generate one shard and spend it as soon as possible"? So just SB+HOG spam?

Actually, seems so.

[Deleted]

Hunter is exactly the example of fucking with a spec that didn't need fucking with at all and coming out way worse in a needless rework.

Sure, survival may have needed some tweaks, but now it's a bland mess and MM is ruined by the revamp just because some tards didn't understand the vunerable window playstyle despite MM hunter being incredibly strong this xpac in progression.

The new survival in BFA is really good. I agree on MM though.

[Deleted]

Actually, seems so.

I really hope that it's not their intention... I'd even perfer RNG in this case, something like "each shard spent has a chance of 50% to spawn a demon".

[Deleted]

I really hope that it's not their intention... I'd even perfer RNG in this case, something like "each shard spent has a chance of 50% to spawn a demon".

Just about the best way to make me never touch that talent is to make it completely feasible for me to burn a 3 minute CD and a load of shards for 1 or 2 piddly demons. SB+HoG might be somewhat boring for 20s but at least its reliable, and thats much more important to me

[AwkwardSquirtle]

Just about the best way to make me never touch that talent is to make it completely feasible for me to burn a 3 minute CD and a load of shards for 1 or 2 piddly demons. SB+HoG might be somewhat boring for 20s but at least its reliable, and thats much more important to me

Alternatively, they could make it summon a demon per shard spent? Same amount of demons (maybe slightly more actually, can't remember cast times) but it doesn't feel like you're playing it wrong,.

[Deleted]

Just about the best way to make me never touch that talent is to make it completely feasible for me to burn a 3 minute CD and a load of shards for 1 or 2 piddly demons. SB+HoG might be somewhat boring for 20s but at least its reliable, and thats much more important to me

It's not only boring, it's also a really weird castsequence.
A correct balance would mean you'd avg. around the same demon count as you are currently getting from that talent with the "messed up" rotation.

The 0,00000001% chance that would result in a much lower summon count is negligible.

Obviously, I'd perfer a "per shard spent" version, but you'd get even more demons since you aren't wasting GCDs as much... on the other hand, they could reduce the CD and duration to make up for that. That would actually mean you build up shards before pressing it and add a little depth to it.

right now, it's a much, much slower version of MM Hunter's trueshot AoE "sequence". (and even that one has a 3rd skill in it from time to time and doesn't last as long)

[iddqd]

What spec did you run in dungeons, which one netted you the best experience? I mostly run with Dreadlash (Demonic Strength also sounds good, though), Demonic Calling (hello mobility), Inner Demons (more imps for Implosion) and Sacrificed Souls (because the other two talents in that row sound meh).

[rhorle]

I would prefer it be a standard cool down that deals damage. Then a chance at summoning a demon per SS spent.

Needs to be instant, just like old doomguard, and a chance to summon a demon per shard.

I could also see use once to charge and a second time to unleash the demons as interesting. Each shard spent could charge the gateway then we can trigger it to summon a horde of demons in. Could be a place to have doomguard and infernal appear as the "commander".

[xskarma]

It's nice if they want to make Netherportal work this way and make it "interesting", but honestly, I'd rather just have old Doomguard as a cooldown then this silly rotation change up.

I mean, Netherportal is either going to be OP and everyone uses it and we get this stupid rotation for the duration (with the repetitiveness that is against what Blizzard typically wants in a rotation) or no one is going to use it.

It sounds every bit like a talent that Blizz later admits didn't work out like they had hoped.

[Bloodronin4life]

In regards to nether portal, I would love a change to have it be the following: It would summon the same number everytime with a catch. Depending on how many shards are spend while it's open, the final demon would be 1 of 3. The less shards u spend the weaker the demon. But that's just my two sense. Not sure which demons would spawn, maybe of enough are spent doomguard is the final summon thay last 20 seconds? Or even have it just for fun and sporadic change ups have it in a rare case summon truly devastating for the final demon, regardless of shards spent.

[Deleted]

Netherportal being 3m CD is excesive with the way WoW currently plays. Any CD should be 2m max imho.

I'd prefer something like below maybe:
Netherportal being 2m CD (ideal would be 1.5 to stack with commander obviously).
Spending a shard gives you a NP stack up to a maximum (maybe decay them in a way).
Casting NP summons a portal that spits out demons (like current) based on the amount of NP stacks.

Would be like a reverse effect of a regular cooldown, where you go ham before you press it. Or you go HAM for x seconds and the portal appears after x seconds unleashing hell.

[Ibanism]

Anyone notice a reduction in DPS? After the incompatible thingy I logged in to find me doing 10-15% less DPS on dummy, still try to find the reason behind this.

Edit. Just tried Affliction and its DPS somehow increases, don't know about Destro.

Nvm I'm an idiot, I switch from hitting 85 dummy to 122 so my pets previously did increased damage, but still Aff damage still feels better.

Edit2. Ok not I figured out all Affliction spell doing more damage to 122 dummy in Zuldazar than 85 dummy in Org, completely opposite to Demo, so confusing.

[Baconeggcheese]

Anyone notice a reduction in DPS? After the incompatible thingy I logged in to find me doing 10-15% less DPS on dummy, still try to find the reason behind this.

Edit. Just tried Affliction and its DPS somehow increases, don't know about Destro.

Nvm I'm an idiot, I switch from hitting 85 dummy to 122 so my pets previously did increased damage, but still Aff damage still feels better.

Edit2. Ok not I figured out all Affliction spell doing more damage to 122 dummy in Zuldazar than 85 dummy in Org, completely opposite to Demo, so confusing.

Don't worry about numbers.

[Maleific]

Netherportal being 3m CD is excesive with the way WoW currently plays. Any CD should be 2m max imho.

I'd prefer something like below maybe:
Netherportal being 2m CD (ideal would be 1.5 to stack with commander obviously).
Spending a shard gives you a NP stack up to a maximum (maybe decay them in a way).
Casting NP summons a portal that spits out demons (like current) based on the amount of NP stacks.

Would be like a reverse effect of a regular cooldown, where you go ham before you press it. Or you go HAM for x seconds and the portal appears after x seconds unleashing hell.

How about a portal that lasts 15 seconds. Spits out a demon every 1.5 secs or so. And spending shards increases its duration?

[Deleted]

How about a portal that lasts 15 seconds. Spits out a demon every 1.5 secs or so. And spending shards increases its duration?

Could also work, but I personaly like the idea where the portal spits out a horde of demons in a short window (preferably with a pacific rim themesong in the background ). More like a buildup of power that unleashes hell.

More of a destruction theme option would be to have a rain of fire animation that rains infernals like the WC3 vid.

[Werst]

Nether portal takes everything frustrating to play about live demo and carries it over into the new expansion. It has every possible downside and requires spam casting (thus uninterrupted casting) for something that isn't even that exciting feeling. Its terrible mechanics for the sake of making the playerbase suffer and its a joke of a cooldown compared to say the new STM. If you don't see spriests being stacked for mythic burn phases I'll be shocked...

Nether portal needs to be closer to a demonic stampede with a instant cast big initial wave of serious demons (cosmetic can vary, damage shouldn't IMO) and perhaps have some kind of KJC or component that allows output in the face of chaos inherent to progression raiding. If devs are still married to the "when you cast/spend shard it pukes a demon" at least give KJC effect so the lock can reliably get the damage out. Otherwise NP's mechanics are going to make it too much of a polar swing as our big CD and just a pain to play. New demo is so great why deliberately force a cooldown that is not only very unpredictable in its gains but unpleasant to play for most people. NP is closer to the kind of stuff devs did in cataclysm..."Rube Goldberg" conditional mechanics to throttle output potential that wasn't even very high. Even worse would be to overtune its top end potential to make up for the big suckfest that is playing it.

TLDR = KJC the lock during nether portal so they can more reliably use NP's gains or make it more of a fire and forget like old stampede. I feel like demo's CD's should be a big demon instead of just contributing to imp mother clutter.

Anyone else rather get a doomguard that tunnels single target damage into a target for doom's duration than that dot whose mechanics are just terrible? Its easy to balance and feels more demon-ey than clinging to old dot based (binary damage vs time on targets) model. With the doomguard otherwise out of usage yet the model seems updated I don't see why demo doesn't have access to the doomguard more.

[AwkwardSquirtle]

I'm very much in favour of doom being a baseline "command demons to focus this target" spell, and then you could replace its spot in the tree with the DG as a cooldown interacting with our gameplay in some way.

[Zyky]

About the level 60 row of talents: What are you guys choosing there? Is there any huge differences between them?


I've basically used Soul Strike there since I started beta and I like the Shard generation of it, but looking to see if I should consider other options there. It's very hard to figure out the difference in damage and what the "worth" of the shard is, so not sure if I should keep it, or try the other options.

Personally I'm running From the Shadows, the damage bonus is amazing overall right now, Vilefiend will probably be better over time with more gear though.

[kaid]

What spec did you run in dungeons, which one netted you the best experience? I mostly run with Dreadlash (Demonic Strength also sounds good, though), Demonic Calling (hello mobility), Inner Demons (more imps for Implosion) and Sacrificed Souls (because the other two talents in that row sound meh).

I liked inner demons when I was messing around. More impplosion fun and its really good soloing in that you have less of a build up time window. After legion being able to start a fight with some imps already really makes PVE stuff and questing feel a great deal better.

[Styxz]

Nether portal takes everything frustrating to play about live demo and carries it over into the new expansion. It has every possible downside and requires spam casting (thus uninterrupted casting) for something that isn't even that exciting feeling. Its terrible mechanics for the sake of making the playerbase suffer and its a joke of a cooldown compared to say the new STM. If you don't see spriests being stacked for mythic burn phases I'll be shocked...

Nether portal needs to be closer to a demonic stampede with a instant cast big initial wave of serious demons (cosmetic can vary, damage shouldn't IMO) and perhaps have some kind of KJC or component that allows output in the face of chaos inherent to progression raiding. If devs are still married to the "when you cast/spend shard it pukes a demon" at least give KJC effect so the lock can reliably get the damage out. Otherwise NP's mechanics are going to make it too much of a polar swing as our big CD and just a pain to play. New demo is so great why deliberately force a cooldown that is not only very unpredictable in its gains but unpleasant to play for most people. NP is closer to the kind of stuff devs did in cataclysm..."Rube Goldberg" conditional mechanics to throttle output potential that wasn't even very high. Even worse would be to overtune its top end potential to make up for the big suckfest that is playing it.

TLDR = KJC the lock during nether portal so they can more reliably use NP's gains or make it more of a fire and forget like old stampede. I feel like demo's CD's should be a big demon instead of just contributing to imp mother clutter.

Anyone else rather get a doomguard that tunnels single target damage into a target for doom's duration than that dot whose mechanics are just terrible? Its easy to balance and feels more demon-ey than clinging to old dot based (binary damage vs time on targets) model. With the doomguard otherwise out of usage yet the model seems updated I don't see why demo doesn't have access to the doomguard more.

You should post this on the beta boards. Frankly, Demo is one of if not the best designed specs in the game, even though it's far from perfect. Yet because of it's relative lack of issues, I'm sure the priority to clean up the weird stuff like Nether Port is very low.

There are barely any demo threads, and none of them seem able to stay on the front page over there.