Our future game director defending 6.1

[lolpve]

The guy is a prat and you can go back through his posts on the official forum over the years to see that. He's an activision yes man who doesn't really know a whole lot about the game.

[Gardoc]

It should be obvious to you that the "passionate PvP players" are unlikely to be representative of the PvP population a whole. These passionate players are probably pretty damn good. They would still be getting rewards in rated PvP in Legion.

The average player who did PvP before didn't do rated PvP. The rewards they would have been getting in Legion would be negligible, compared to what they could get in easy PvE.

Using the complaints of that small, unrepresentative minority to understand what happened to the majority is just foolish.

We've seen forum complaints go wildly off the rails before, you know. They're very likely what led to Blizzard's attempt in Cataclysm to make the game more hardcore. Blizzard learned not to listen to that stuff so much after that; you would do well to do likewise.

It's even more foolish that you still haven't provided any evidence to prove your claim. I have talked to hundreds of people on forums, in game and IRL as well. I've talked to casual PVPers and hardcore ones as well. Almost everyone agreed that pruning is one of the biggest problem of the PVP, because classes get boring too fast. So where is the big, representative majority? They are not in game, they're not my IRL friends and they are not on forums.

[Super Kami Dende]

But 6.1 was a patch? It added stuff. Not stuff that many people wanted but it still added stuff, thus a patch.

[Armourboy]

But 6.1 was a patch? It added stuff. Not stuff that many people wanted but it still added stuff, thus a patch.

Nah later even Blizzard admitted it wasn't really a patch and should have been listed as 6.0X. I mean the big add was something they admitted was done by some dude in his free time over the weekend. That said it doesn't really matter anymore. We know and they know that WoD was pretty rough across the board, it's just beating a dead horse at this point.

[Osmeric]

It's even more foolish that you still haven't provided any evidence to prove your claim. I have talked to hundreds of people on forums, in game and IRL as well. I've talked to casual PVPers and hardcore ones as well. Almost everyone agreed that pruning is one of the biggest problem of the PVP, because classes get boring too fast. So where is the big, representative majority? They are not in game, they're not my IRL friends and they are not on forums.

You went searching for responses to confirm your opinion, and you found them. Confirmation bias.

What, you didn't hear people say "I'm not good enough to get a rating high enough to get meaningful rewards"? I wonder why. It must be because everyone is great, especially on forums, right? I mean, if someone is bad, they'd love to talk about it, I'm sure.

But yeah, it's your model where masses of players would be willing to do something like PvP for no tangible reward, if only their characters were more difficult to play well. That totally makes sense, I guess, if you're had enough to drink.

I think what this episode (and the one at the start of Wrath, where reward was removed from average players in PvP and participation crashed) showed is that PvP has been popular over most of the lifespan of the game for most of the players who have done it because they were being bribed into doing it, not because they found it particularly engaging. Remove reward and they leave.

[Orby]

Haven't you people quit WoW yet? If I was as miserable as you people were I would have left the game by now lol. I haven't had a major problem with the game since Cataclysm and my response was that I actually unsubbed, before returning in MoP. I would be fine if this was a critique but its not this is down right whining and playing armchair developer, typical "I know whats best for this game because I play it" attitude..

I honestly could not play a game I was this bitter and hateful towards... Either you people have addiction issues, or just really really sad

[Lei]

Ion Hazzikostas was the most visible and vocal WOD critic on the dev team after the expansion ended and has improved on basically every element of the game that he thought was lacking real hard in WOD.

AFTER

Maybe it's new for you but they do it like a business model by now, a production cycle, if you will: make whatever shit gamedesign, even when people warn it's going to be shit, somehow just hold the shit together till expansions ends (it's just 2 years, new expansion is announced 3/4 way, which keeps people faithful/excited etc, the rest doesn't matter cause "cyclical subscribers" gonna be cyclical), apologize and tell people you've learnt something, nono, not like before, this time really lesson learned, then restart with "fresh" "new" ideas. Rinse repeat.
I mean for sure this can be always a mistake, but they've been playing this for... gosh, god knows how long... Since cata's end I think?

I feel like the game is seriously over-engineered. And it started with WoD.

[Vonazak]

Haven't you people quit WoW yet? If I was as miserable as you people were I would have left the game by now lol. I haven't had a major problem with the game since Cataclysm and my response was that I actually unsubbed, before returning in MoP. I would be fine if this was a critique but its not this is down right whining and playing armchair developer, typical "I know whats best for this game because I play it" attitude..

I honestly could not play a game I was this bitter and hateful towards... Either you people have addiction issues, or just really really sad

This. Some kids just have anger issues, if the game its too bad, why they are still playing it?

To me Legion its the best expac ever, Ion has done a great work, and if someone is a white supremacist and want to play a blue-eyed blonde white boi, the horde is the place for him, like Ion said.

[teverin]

Well thanks for proving that you sucked at the game and have no idea how complex were the classes WotLK - MoP.

Super complex, we're talking Rick and Morty lvl 5 complex.

[Gardoc]

You went searching for responses to confirm your opinion, and you found them. Confirmation bias.

What, you didn't hear people say "I'm not good enough to get a rating high enough to get meaningful rewards"? I wonder why. It must be because everyone is great, especially on forums, right? I mean, if someone is bad, they'd love to talk about it, I'm sure.

But yeah, it's your model where masses of players would be willing to do something like PvP for no tangible reward, if only their characters were more difficult to play well. That totally makes sense, I guess, if you're had enough to drink.

I think what this episode (and the one at the start of Wrath, where reward was removed from average players in PvP and participation crashed) showed is that PvP has been popular over most of the lifespan of the game for most of the players who have done it because they were being bribed into doing it, not because they found it particularly engaging. Remove reward and they leave.

I went searching for PVPers enjoying their classes being pruned and dumbed down and I haven't found them.

BTW any evidence of WotLK PVP participation crashing? Because during WotLK PVP was so popular that even arena tournament had 100k+ viewers.

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This. Some kids just have anger issues, if the game its too bad, why they are still playing it?

To me Legion its the best expac ever, Ion has done a great work, and if someone is a white supremacist and want to play a blue-eyed blonde white boi, the horde is the place for him, like Ion said.

Wait, I wasn't paying attention to the whole "high elf controversy". I thought it was a problem lore-wise, I didn't know that wanting to play a high elf means you are white supremacist. This is truly a new level of stupidity.

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Super complex, we're talking Rick and Morty lvl 5 complex.

No, we're talking MMORPG level of complex. As always I would recommend watching this video, it shows complexity of WotLK PVP and explains it well for bad players.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gy8UZR72o9c

[Osmeric]

I went searching for PVPers enjoying their classes being pruned and dumbed down and I haven't found them.

That's nice. It doesn't mean anything. In particular, it doesn't mean this is why PvP participation is down.

BTW any evidence of WotLK PVP participation crashing? Because during WotLK PVP was so popular that even arena tournament had 100k+ viewers

I don't know if you can get the stats now, but as I recall in the first PvP season of Wrath arena participation declined by 50% from what it was in BC. Remember, at that time even honor gear (except for the libram slot) had a minimum rating requirement. They rapidly backtracked on that, and also had to redesign the then-new personal rating system to make it more resistant to ladder collapse.

[Gardoc]

That's nice. It doesn't mean anything. In particular, it doesn't mean this is why PvP participation is down.



I don't know if you can get the stats now, but as I recall in the first PvP season of Wrath arena participation declined by 50% from what it was in BC. Remember, at that time even honor gear (except for the libram slot) had a minimum rating requirement. They rapidly backtracked on that, and also had to redesign the then-new personal rating system to make it more resistant to ladder collapse.

I don't remember that but it might be true, but that's not a "average player not getting rewards" problem. This system is just stupid and I would hate it even as an above-average player. Don't forget that the other WotLK seasons had rating requirements for gear and they were the most popular PVP seasons in WoW history.

[teverin]

I went searching for PVPers enjoying their classes being pruned and dumbed down and I haven't found them.

BTW any evidence of WotLK PVP participation crashing? Because during WotLK PVP was so popular that even arena tournament had 100k+ viewers.

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Wait, I wasn't paying attention to the whole "high elf controversy". I thought it was a problem lore-wise, I didn't know that wanting to play a high elf means you are white supremacist. This is truly a new level of stupidity.

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No, we're talking MMORPG level of complex. As always I would recommend watching this video, it shows complexity of WotLK PVP and explains it well for bad players.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gy8UZR72o9c

How is that at all complex? He know's the other mage is going to try and kill him so he absorbs as much damage as he can to gain SP, spell steal a buff, and then dps him down. He is doing what people do now, purge buffs, pop defensive, couterspell, offensive CDs and then dps.

[Gardoc]

How is that at all complex? He know's the other mage is going to try and kill him so he absorbs as much damage as he can to gain SP, spell steal a buff, and then dps him down. He is doing what people do now, purge buffs, pop defensive, couterspell, offensive CDs and then dps.

Yeah, if you ignore all the different shields he uses (like mana shield that drains his mana or fire ward that he had to time correctly for the incoming fire blast) and ignore that cs = silence and not just kick and ignore locking in different schools of magic and ignore usage of the different schools of magic and ignore the restoring of mana with mana gem (+ spell power buff) and ignore the mana management for dps classes that is almost non-existent in Legion then yes, it's just like Legion PVP.

BTW it's funny how you perfectly described Legion PVP in one sentence - pop defensive CDs if enemy is trying to kill you, try to kick him, pop offensive CDs and DPS. Apply this to any DPS class and you have Legion PVP in a nutshell

[Magistrate]

Sweet 3 year old video bro

This ^ /10char

[Mojo03]

Well thanks for proving that you sucked at the game and have no idea how complex were the classes WotLK - MoP.

You are truly delusional.

[Gardoc]

You are truly delusional.

Yeah sure, whatever. I've been called delusional before for saying that during WotLK almost every class had 3+ viable builds for PVP. I could prove it with videos and I even invited him to ---snip--- to show him these specs. He just called me delusional and refused to discuss anything. You're just like him.

[WrongCracker]

Oh boy, if you think that's bad, try being a Hardcore Raider during ICC.....

You can't do Heroic til you clear normal, normal is gated for 2 months....

Seriously, this game has had unabashed gating since day one.

Then only to get to Arthas and hes unbeatable on heroic for over a month lol

[Kagthul]

I don't remember that but it might be true, but that's not a "average player not getting rewards" problem. This system is just stupid and I would hate it even as an above-average player. Don't forget that the other WotLK seasons had rating requirements for gear and they were the most popular PVP seasons in WoW history.

Only the shoulder and weapons, and you could get shoulders of the same iLevel (though an ugly generic model) from Wintergrasp, and there were other avenues to get a weapon of the same iLevel, including crafting or questing. And at worst, you were 12 iLevels behind in your weapon slot only, using the previous season weapon.

[Gardoc]

Only the shoulder and weapons, and you could get shoulders of the same iLevel (though an ugly generic model) from Wintergrasp, and there were other avenues to get a weapon of the same iLevel, including crafting or questing. And at worst, you were 12 iLevels behind in your weapon slot only, using the previous season weapon.

Wintergrasp gear ilvl was equal to the ilvl of arena set that didn't require rating. The best arena set required 1400 rating for gloves, 1500 for legs, 1600 for chest, 1800 for weapons, 1950 for head slot, 2000 in 3s for shoulders, 2200 in 3s for better weapon and 2350 in 3s for tabard.