1. #8381
    Over 9000! Santti's Avatar
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    Skroe banned again? I wonder who got called out on their bullshit this time.
    Quote Originally Posted by SpaghettiMonk View Post
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  2. #8382
    Legendary! Thekri's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kujako View Post
    Yes, but as I've said before, I doubt Trump or his lawyers understand this.
    Yeah, that is what happens when one side of the investigation is so very much dumber then the other side. Mueller's team is very aware that a pardon is possible at any time, so they built their case so it doesn't matter. Cohen is a perfect example, while it is increasingly obvious that that raid was Mueller's work, the case is built around a potential pardon. This article explains why. Essentially Mueller is being very stingy on charges, and extreme on evidence. This means that if Trump pardons the person in play (Manafort, Cohen, Papadopoulos, Flynn, whoever), all that evidence goes to a state court, who can then try him for any charge not pardoned by Trump, and there is nothing he can do about it.

    Flynn for instance is on the hook for a single count of perjury. If Trump pardons him for that, Mueller can bring the entire barrage of charges to a state Attorney, and Flynn goes away for life. Even worse for Trump, a pardon is not the same as not being guilty, in fact it is an admission of guilt, which means Flynn would be compelled to testify anyway, since it can no longer implicate him. Same goes for the all the other people who are close to the president and currently facing jail time.

  3. #8383
    Quote Originally Posted by Skroe View Post
    I don't think anyone has remarked in the last five minutes how enormously screwed Manafort is.

    I don't think there is a person alive more screwed than he is, at this very moment.
    ???

    Did I miss something? I don't recall anything he's said in the last day that would warrant another janitorial cleanup??

  4. #8384
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    Quote Originally Posted by Resurgo View Post
    ???

    Did I miss something? I don't recall anything he's said in the last day that would warrant another janitorial cleanup??
    Manafort is being charged with tampering with witnesses. IIRC this just came in today.

    These idiots think that the whole ballgame is linked to Trump being guilty or not. They cannot reconcile the fact that each of their actions are independently actionable - so even if this entire shin-dig is a "witch hunt" - Manafort still goes to jail for witness tampering. And money laundering. And lying to a federal officer.

    These fuckwits couldn't run a bake sale. And yet.

  5. #8385
    Quote Originally Posted by Resurgo View Post
    ???

    Did I miss something? I don't recall anything he's said in the last day that would warrant another janitorial cleanup??
    Yes. Mueller is accusing him of witness tampering. Because witnesses told the FBI that Manafort was reaching out to them using encrypted messaging services to get them to change their testimony. And they have call logs that from Manafort to those witnesses that apparently match up to when he sent the messages.

  6. #8386
    lol, thanks you two!

    What I actually meant was that I had no idea what @Skroe has said that would necessitate another vacation from the boards. I simply quoted that, because it was the first time I noticed he's on another vacation...

  7. #8387
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    Quote Originally Posted by Resurgo View Post
    lol, thanks you two!

    What I actually meant was that I had no idea what @Skroe has said that would necessitate another vacation from the boards. I simply quoted that, because it was the first time I noticed he's on another vacation...
    Oh, lol - yeah, right. I was actually looking for the "offending" post too.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Looks like the Special Master has finished their first batch of most of the Cohen docs. She has ruled that most are NOT covered by attorney-client privilege.

    Whooopsie-daisies.
    Last edited by cubby; 2018-06-05 at 09:59 PM.

  8. #8388
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    Quote Originally Posted by Packers01 View Post
    SO, did anyone find the post Skroe is banned for? I always like to read those.
    My last and only active infraction was for picking on someone with extreme sarcasm over several posts being trolling, not an infraction for a single instance or quote. Maybe something like that?
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  9. #8389
    Quote Originally Posted by Machismo View Post
    There's one problem, these are largely Republicans who are investigating him. As for putting a deadline on the investigation, that would be nothing more than obstruction.
    So, if I'm assigned to paint a house and I choose to do nothing, I get to keep my job and get paid forever? There needs to be a time limit imposed by congress. As for Republicans doing the investigating, that is irreverent. Neither party wanted Trump. The only reason he was elected was b/c the American people are sick to death of the current political class and as Michael Moore said "it will be the biggest fuck you in American history" to those groups.

    As long as this investigation continues, the Democrats can use it to delegitimize the president for political gain and the Republicans can use it as an excuse to fight the president and unify their more traditional supporters. Either case hurts the institution of the presidency and the nation as a whole. If the investigation had found anything it would have been made public and the investigation could move on to charging people with crimes. This would have been a huge boon to the large segments of both parties that hate the president. Since this had not happened, there is more than likely nothing to be found, but the presence of an investigation can still be used for political purposes, so it must continue. It is similar to, though far less official to those constantly trying to prove Obama was born in Kenya. As long as people are still investigating the birther possibility, it can be used as a political weapon.

    What does it say about the US's current intelligence services if they haven't figured this out in over a year? According to Snowden, with the amount of surveillance they are capable of this should have been resolved a long time ago.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wyrt View Post
    Mueller is a REPUBLICAN. Rosenstien is a REPUBLICAN.

    This is not a partisan issue. Stop drinking the koolaid.
    No it's not a partisan issue. Both parties hate Trump.
    Last edited by Khelek; 2018-06-05 at 11:59 PM.

  10. #8390
    Quote Originally Posted by Khelek View Post
    So, if I'm assigned to paint a house and I choose to do nothing, I get to keep my job and get paid forever? There needs to be a time limit imposed by congress. As for Republicans doing the investigating, that is irreverent. Neither party wanted Trump. The only reason he was elected was b/c the American people are sick to death of the current political class and as Michael Moore said "it will be the biggest fuck you in American history" to those groups.

    As long as this investigation continues, the Democrats can use it to delegitimize the president for political gain and the Republicans can use it as an excuse to fight the president and unify their more traditional supports. Either case hurts the institution of the presidency and the nation as a whole. If the investigation had found anything it would have been made public and the investigation could move on to charging people with crimes. This would have been a huge boon to the large segments of both parties that hate the president. Since this had not happened, there is more than likely nothing to be found, but the presence of an investigation can still be used for political purposes, so it must continue.

    What does it say about the US's current intelligence services if they haven't figured this out in over a year. According to Snowden, with the amount of surveillance they are capable of this should have been resolved a long time ago.
    Well, that would depend on the agreed-upon end date. There was not one set at the beginning by Rosenstein. No, there does not need to be a time limit, you just happen to want one. If more evidence continues to come in, or more crimes are uncovered, then it continues. There are investigations by the FBI that have lasted decades, and involved generations of people being nailed for their crimes.

    I'm sure you were just as angry at the constant barrage of Benghazi investigations. Shall we go through your short comment history and see how angry you were at them? As for this investigation, there have already been nearly two dozen people indicted, and multiple guilty pleas. You do know that, right?

    What does it say about the President, his administration, and the ignorant supporters, that the investigation is still coming up with things.

    Of course, Trump could always agree to testify under oath. We'll see when he agrees to do just that.

    As for Snowden, he worked with the NSA, and was previously a contractor for the CIA. You do know they have different directives and missions than the FBI, right?

  11. #8391
    Quote Originally Posted by Khelek View Post
    So, if I'm assigned to paint a house and I choose to do nothing,
    If you think Mueller is doing nothing then you haven't been paying attention.

  12. #8392
    Quote Originally Posted by Khelek View Post
    So, if I'm assigned to paint a house and I choose to do nothing, I get to keep my job and get paid forever? There needs to be a time limit imposed by congress.
    The difference is when you choose to paint a house, you know how big the house is. You can compare the size of the house to other houses of that size you have painted, and have a pretty good guess as to how long should take.

    Comparing this special prosecuter investigation to other special prosecuter investigations of this size, this one's been pretty short so far.



    Damn, look how long that Whitewater investigation lasted! I'm sure the republicans were complaining about the length of that one!

  13. #8393
    Quote Originally Posted by Machismo View Post
    Well, that would depend on the agreed-upon end date. There was not one set at the beginning by Rosenstein. No, there does not need to be a time limit, you just happen to want one. If more evidence continues to come in, or more crimes are uncovered, then it continues. There are investigations by the FBI that have lasted decades, and involved generations of people being nailed for their crimes.

    I'm sure you were just as angry at the constant barrage of Benghazi investigations. Shall we go through your short comment history and see how angry you were at them? As for this investigation, there have already been nearly two dozen people indicted, and multiple guilty pleas. You do know that, right?



    What does it say about the President, his administration, and the ignorant supporters, that the investigation is still coming up with things.

    Of course, Trump could always agree to testify under oath. We'll see when he agrees to do just that.

    As for Snowden, he worked with the NSA, and was previously a contractor for the CIA. You do know they have different directives and missions than the FBI, right?
    Benghazi was shit as well and if anything could have been proven it should have been in a timely manner. That was a direct investigation by congress I believe and not through an intelligence agency (please correct me if I'm wrong). It was political, but that is the role of congress. The FBI has been terrible during their investigations in recent years. Hell, the Clinton email investigation was a farce as well that was dragged out and re-started ad nauseam.

    The bullshit comes from the political and public nature of these investigations via agencies that should not be political. The FBI has run cases for decades, but very few that were political were also public in nature and they did not impeded the functioning of the government. Imagine if during the most recent IRS scandal, the IRS was either partially shut down and/or people decided to not pay their taxes until the situation was resolved on the extreme change the IRS would be abolished. There are groups who are fighting the Trump administration with the hope that this endless investigation would lead to impeachment and as long as that slim possibility exists those groups whose efforts could be better directed will be wasted. Like the birther idiots, it is a waste of time and money.

    Even Bernie Sanders said people need to shut up about it and let the FBI do its job. That would be great if the FBI were doing the nonpartisan job they were assigned to do and have generally done successfully for decades, but their failure in the Clinton email investigation and in the Russia investigation has not engendered trust in the American people.

  14. #8394
    The only ones complaining about the FBI being "political" are Trumpeteers who only believe in Trump's bullshit.

  15. #8395
    Quote Originally Posted by Khelek View Post
    Benghazi was shit as well and if anything could have been proven it should have been in a timely manner. That was a direct investigation by congress I believe and not through an intelligence agency (please correct me if I'm wrong). It was political, but that is the role of congress. The FBI has been terrible during their investigations in recent years. Hell, the Clinton email investigation was a farce as well that was dragged out and re-started ad nauseam.

    The bullshit comes from the political and public nature of these investigations via agencies that should not be political. The FBI has run cases for decades, but very few that were political were also public in nature and they did not impeded the functioning of the government. Imagine if during the most recent IRS scandal, the IRS was either partially shut down and/or people decided to not pay their taxes until the situation was resolved on the extreme change the IRS would be abolished. There are groups who are fighting the Trump administration with the hope that this endless investigation would lead to impeachment and as long as that slim possibility exists those groups whose efforts could be better directed will be wasted. Like the birther idiots, it is a waste of time and money.

    Even Bernie Sanders said people need to shut up about it and let the FBI do its job. That would be great if the FBI were doing the nonpartisan job they were assigned to do and have generally done successfully for decades, but their failure in the Clinton email investigation and in the Russia investigation has not engendered trust in the American people.
    Benghazi lasted far longer than this, as did Watergate.

    That's the thing about the Mueller investigation, he's not making it public. The leaks are largely coming from Congress, and to a larger extent, from the White House itself. We already have guilty pleas, so we know there was wrongdoing. Now it's just a matter of finding out how much.

  16. #8396
    The Undying Cthulhu 2020's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Khelek View Post
    The President and/or Congress needs to give Mueller an ultimatum. He should have six months to shit or get off the pot. This is setting a terrible precedent. Imagine if Trump is able to stuff his people into the FBI, CIA, IRS, etc. and they decide to spend years on a completely fallacious investigation into the next administration for the purpose of undermining it's legitimacy. That would be very bad for all future administrations on the left or right.

    There have been ideologues on both sides that have controlled Washington in the past, but they were all smart enough to not politicizes organizations such as the military, intelligence, or the IRS because they understood that such power could be used against them in the future should the political winds change. Nixon learned the hard way and was condemned by all sides for tampering with the IRS. Obama, in his ideological zeal, seems to have simply ignored this precedent to the detriment of the Republic.
    Maybe Trump should just agree to be questioned by Mueller already. It's getting to cosmic levels of stupid how hard Trump and his team of legal experts are trying to keep Mueller and Trump from being in a room alone together for 15 minutes.

    But we all know that Trump going into a room alone with Mueller will probably take less than 10 minutes to get some kind of admission of guilt from Trump, which is why they're avoiding it hard, so Mueller has to go the long and time consuming way of proving it all.
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  17. #8397
    Quote Originally Posted by solinari6 View Post
    The difference is when you choose to paint a house, you know how big the house is. You can compare the size of the house to other houses of that size you have painted, and have a pretty good guess as to how long should take.

    Comparing this special prosecuter investigation to other special prosecuter investigations of this size, this one's been pretty short so far.



    Damn, look how long that Whitewater investigation lasted! I'm sure the republicans were complaining about the length of that one!

    I'm not saying it should be any different b/c Trump is a wonderful flower who deserves special treatment. All those investigation took far far to long and hurt the functioning of the American government. Public investigations of any sort that are effecting the ability of the government to function need to be expedited.

    Clinton's email investigation hurt the election because it was publicly started, then stopped, then reopened. That has to change. Most of the FBI's investigation while on record where not used continuously as political weapons by either side. Imagine if there were an investigation into the whether Obama was born in Kenya that lasted more than a year into his presidency. Just its existence would have prevented his administration from being legitimate in the eyes of the American people and prevented him from doing his job. Even as it was, there were fringe idiots that used that as an excuse and that was not given the backing of the FBI. An investigation that has so far proved nothing has had a far greater impact on the functioning of the American government.

    I am not a Trump fan and did not vote for him, but the FBI is becoming a problem as it is inserting itself where it should not be and that could effect future presidents and administrations. We've already seen the problems with Russia and the Clinton emails.
    Last edited by Khelek; 2018-06-06 at 12:35 AM.

  18. #8398
    Quote Originally Posted by Khelek View Post
    Even as it was, there were fringe idiots that used that as an excuse and that was not given the backing of the FBI. An investigation that has so far proved nothing has had a far greater impact on the functioning of the American government..
    Liar x2. It's proven loads and its far from done. You also aren't privy to most of it, same as us. Also, it only has an impact because the Chief Twit(terer) is fixated on it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Khelek View Post

    I am not a Trump fan and did not vote for him, but the FBI is becoming a problem as it is inserting itself where it should not be and that could effect future presidents and administrations. We've already seen the problems with Russia and the Clinton emails.
    Sure you aren't. You literally dry hump him in your hero worship posts. I've seen millimetre thick pieces of glass that are less transparent.

  19. #8399
    Elemental Lord callipygoustp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Khelek View Post
    Even Bernie Sanders said people need to shut up about it and let the FBI do its job.
    Especially the loudest people: Trump and his team.

    The above statement reminds of all the times Trump supporters bring up Hillary Clinton and then ask "Why can't you guys get over Hillary losing?"

  20. #8400
    Quote Originally Posted by Khelek View Post
    An investigation that has so far proved nothing has had a far greater impact on the functioning of the American government.
    It's blatant lies like this that give me zero reason to believe or care about anything else you say.

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