So what has happened to all these franchises?

[Clone]

Not sure about the Dr. Who and Star Trek, but Star Wars is pretty boring. It mainly coasts by with cool shit.

[Steelangel]

Poor choice of casting - examples being the guy after David Tenant in Dr Who. The leader/captain guy in Deep Space Nine (and pretty much everyone in Deep Space Nine in general). Everyone except the Captain in the Enterprise prequel.

DS9 is one of the best Star Trek series in my (probably minority) opinion. It showed the seedy underbelly of the "too perfect" Next Generation-series Federation.

[Kaibhan]

You should watch the new Star Trek: Discovery.

I admit to partly agreeing with the scores of critics in that the first few episodes were kinda wonky, didn't really seem like star trek and more like jj-adrams-trek with a shoddy script, but it quickly picked up steam and by mid season it was pretty good, and towards the end of the season it was very good. This is reflected in the reviews as well, most of the bad reviews are from people who watched the first couple of episodes and thought it was trash. Reviews of the later episodes are much more positive. I'm really looking forward to S2. That said, if you're a Trekkie who won't allow for any deviation from established canon you won't like it. Remove all preconceptions you have about the word "Star Trek" and it's really a very good series.

And really, what Star Trek series hasn't sucked at the start? The first couple of seasons of TNG are so bad it's recommended to skip them entirely for people new to the series.

I wonder how much of a positive spin on the latter episodes is because the people who didn't like it gave up on it.

[Faroth]

A NUANCED story of good and evil ? With Darth Vader and Sidious ?

I was thrown by that as well. Maybe he meant with the prequels, Lucas tried to be more nuanced with the Jedi having some dogma issues.

To me, Star Wars has always been a modern era fable. It's a fairy tale about knights and wizards rescuing princesses, only set in space. Lucas has commented before that the main them is a fairly basic good vs evil concept - you can be selfish and only care about yourself (Sith) which brings suffering to others or you can be more altruistic and care about others beyond yourself (Jedi) which is meant to keep a more peaceful society.

Star Wars suffers from new handlers wanting to snuff out the foundation of Star Wars and leave their own mark. Where they completely went off the rails was they utterly butchered Luke in the process in order to do that. Rather than passing the torch to a new generation in a way that would have brought old fans along invested in the new characters, they just basically kicked everything classic to the curb and set it on fire.

I think a good potion of classic fans were expecting a paradigm shift. Heck, a lot of people were expecting Luke to have learned about the whole "grey Jedi" concept - using light and dark side, but never allowing either to fully control you - a yin/yang and "balance of the Force is balance within yourself" approach. Thematically that would have actually tied everything from 1-6 together while passing the torch to Rey as the first of a new direction for the Jedi. You'd have Anakin, through his son, returning balance to the Force by returning balance to the Jedi themselves. You'd also have Rey, who I'm 100% on board with being a nobody from nowhere, being the Skywalker legacy going forward by carrying those teachings. You'd still have the original characters carried on by the new torch bearers, including whoever they decided to be taught by Rey in future installments.

So I don't think it's just people clinging to the old ones and not wanting things to change. The gray Jedi notion was fairly exciting for a lot of fans as it did definitely break the Sith/Jedi dichotomy and threw the good vs evil into a new light and carries its own bag of philosophical ponderings of the nature of good and evil.

For people saying "Star Wars is old" or that they're oversaturated, that's really not a factor. Marvel is banking on characters that are 40-50 years old, some a little older now and they're heading for 2 billion dollars after 18 films in only 10 years. They've had 2-3 films a year recently.

It's the product and the attitude of its handlers. Kevin Feige is a comic fan and he wants the MCU films to be for fans. Star Wars is headed by people who have actively derided their fans.


Star Trek is similar - it's thrown aside its history. The new movies are frequently described as Star Trek being more like Star Wars and the recent series is frequently cited as having almost nothing of the future Roddenberry envisioned as the basis for the entire premise to be built upon.

I think there's definitely some truth to the comments here about these series dismissing their traditions to try and be more contemporary to modern Earth rather than a far future or a "long time ago, in a galaxy far, far away."

[yetgdhfgh]

1. Star Wars shouldve ended in 1983 and should never have been dredged up
2. Star Trek is a thing where its hard to balance where its all nice and cosy and all out war cause Star trek is supposed to show a utopia of what mankind could be but without war you have no drama and have no show but all out war is depressing. TNG had a great balance which what followed hasn't been quite able to achieve.
3. I have seen every Dr Who episode (including those which was destroyed ty audio department) and this is a show that has no end even though it should've ended with the doctors 12 regeneration cause that was put in place so no time lord could get immortality but that shows cannon is so fucked up now that i dont even recognize it anymore and i saw Dimensions In Time!!!

[Video Games]

I think some of it has to do with how old they are and the novelty of that technology isnt as exciting since were in an age of it.

[Deleted]

Poor choice of casting - examples being the guy after David Tenant in Dr Who. The leader/captain guy in Deep Space Nine (and pretty much everyone in Deep Space Nine in general). Everyone except the Captain in the Enterprise prequel.

Here you see a guy with ZERO clues. DS9 was awesome what you mean was bad is VOYAGER, and claiming Mat Smith to be a bad Doctor you must be a simple fool for that


@Hammerfest: can you prove your claim that these franchise lose out because I dont see it?
(then again I didnt liked the Kelvin Timeline...)
If your claim would be true for example twitch wouldnt do a free 7 week Doctor Who Marathon.

[Krothar]

I grew up in a time between the original movies and the prequels. My dad was never a big Star Wars fan, so I never saw the originals and by the time the prequels came out I had no reason to go see them, it wasn't a franchise I really knew anything about.
Even now I have no real desire to see them, just doesn't interest me.

What I saw of Star Trek as a kid bored me to tears. Maybe I didn't see the right episodes or the right season, but when it came on TV it was one of those 'change the channel as quickly as possible' situations for me.
Again as an adult I don't really want to get invested in it.

Finally; Doctor Who. I love it, but I can see why some people may have been put off it semi recently. Capaldi's first season was kind of weak and his character was all over the place as a result. It started with this genuinely interestingly different Doctor to what we had had with the last two, but I get why it might have put people off. Though instead of sticking to their guns they ultimately reverted Capaldi's Doctor to a more 'fun' Doctor alike the previous two which could have put off even more people.

[Hammerfest]

Hammerfest: can you prove your claim that these franchise lose out because I dont see it?
(then again I didnt liked the Kelvin Timeline...)
If your claim would be true for example twitch wouldnt do a free 7 week Doctor Who Marathon.

What are you talking about?

[Checkt]

They were never good to begin with, and the audience is maturing.

slightly big facts. not really maturing, just thinking something was better than it was and then nothing being able to live up to it,

[Deleted]

I'm personally a fan of the current Star Trek movies, however Doctor Who and Star Wars are on a huge decline, and honestly it's just because they have completely failed in how they include women.

[Ehrenpanzer]

Franchises like Star Wars, Star Trek and Doctor Who are losing popularity and money. Is it because millennials and Generation Z want their own franchises or is it because these franchises have been mishandled? I honestly don't think it's fatigue. (I think they say "fatigue" when they don't want to admit that their work has been subpar.)

Star Trek: Bad movies. All the TNG movies were complete and utter financial and critical flops. Then came the JJverse and people either loved it or hated it.

Star Wars: Needs to be renamed to SJW Wars at this point. Theres a fine line between putting in social commentary in a movie, and ruining it with heavy handed messaging, the hacks Disney have writing for Star Wars clearly dont understand the difference.

Dr. Who: Honestly I have no idea, never been a fan of the show.

[Hammerfest]

It seems Jurassic World 2 is going to be preaching the liberal/sjw message too...

https://variety.com/2018/film/review...tt-1202829194/

Where have all the dinosaurs gone? That’s a question that may occur to you during vast stretches of “Jurassic World: Fallen Kingdom,” the fifth entry in the “Jurassic” series, and the first that plays less like a thunder-lizard spectacular than like a ’70s disaster movie run amok. Oh, don’t get me wrong: The film provides plenty of encounters with our stomping, gnashing primeval-beastly friends — yet for much of “Fallen Kingdom,” they are caged, shackled, sedated, wounded, and otherwise subdued. They’re right up there on screen, but too often they don’t feel like the main event.

On Isla Nubar, site of the now-decimated Jurassic World theme park, a billowing volcano is about to erupt and consume the island. Owen Grady (Chris Pratt), that hearty bro of a raptor whisperer, and Claire Dearing (Bryce Dallas Howard), the former park manager who now leads a dinosaur-rights activist group, have come to rescue the dinosaurs that still roam there by taking them to a new sanctuary. They’ve been hired by Eli Mills (Rafe Spall), the majordomo of the Lockwood estate. It turns out, though, that he’s using them for their tracking system and has other, more sinister plans for the dinosaurs’ future.

[minteK917]

Star Wars and Doctor Who have been kinda going down the drain for me, and it's because of SJW crap influencing them to much. Star Trek however I am enjoying, but I didn't watch the series or original movies. I'm guessing it's the Star Trek fans that feel as if current Star Trek has deviated to much. At least that is a better reason than dying to SJW nonsense.

Old star trek fan, im not gona claim discovery is perfect, but its step up from Voyager and enterprise for the most part. I enjoyed it, Really like the redesign of the Klingon, i might be alone in this, but they took a page from my favorite Scifi show of all time Farscape. I get that Star trek in the 60s, 70s and 80s didnt have the budget to do more then just humans with face props, but in the 2000+ When the muppet studio can make better Aliens then you, look at what they are doing.

[mickybrighteyes]

Most importantly though all three, especially Doctor Who and Star Trek, are aiming for the 'nerdy sci-fi crowd' who are busy playing video games these days.

given recent story progression and various public statements... the bold is a lie.

They're more seen telling the nerdy sci-fi types to grow up and be inclusive while butchering up the story to make it more desirable to other groups (who really weren't interested to begin with)

[draynay]

I like all three of these things, but I'm a Trekkie, and hate how its been mismanaged with an online only show that is borderline unwatchable.

[jakeic]

You should watch the new Star Trek: Discovery.

I admit to partly agreeing with the scores of critics in that the first few episodes were kinda wonky, didn't really seem like star trek and more like jj-adrams-trek with a shoddy script, but it quickly picked up steam and by mid season it was pretty good, and towards the end of the season it was very good. This is reflected in the reviews as well, most of the bad reviews are from people who watched the first couple of episodes and thought it was trash. Reviews of the later episodes are much more positive. I'm really looking forward to S2. That said, if you're a Trekkie who won't allow for any deviation from established canon you won't like it. Remove all preconceptions you have about the word "Star Trek" and it's really a very good series.

And really, what Star Trek series hasn't sucked at the start? The first couple of seasons of TNG are so bad it's recommended to skip them entirely for people new to the series.

I have watched STD, I am not a fan.

I don't disagree about slow starts on the other shows, it's just that STD is not Star Trek in any sense other than they're using the licensing. If they some how change season 2 into a show about a brighter future instead of a dark tail of how everyone wants to stab everyone in the face, then I could agree with you, but I don't see that happening.

[Deleted]

What are you talking about?

I am asking where your PROOF is, are you to silly to read because you just wanna create another sjw bashing thread?

It seems Jurassic World 2 is going to be preaching the liberal/sjw message too...

[Hammerfest]

I am asking where your PROOF is, are you to silly to read because you just wanna create another sjw bashing thread?

Proof of what?

[tyrlaan]

I love how people blame it on SJWs rather than a failure to grow and move on from their initial concepts.

As far as Sci-fi goes the expanse is the best currently airing show. It's a depressing look into our future and that's where we are at. Star Trek is too feel good and star wars is just to fantasy for today's markets. Dr. Who, more like Dr. who gives a fuck.

To the first sentence, the problem is that fans don't want the franchises to grow and move on from their initial concepts. How much or how little you liked TLJ aside, its a clear attempt to grow and move SW from its initial concepts, which has lead to so much internet frothing. In fairness though, I suspect outside of that bubble people are just fine with TLJ.

I disagree with your assessment of the three franchises though. I'm sure there are plenty of people that enjoy the escapism of ST or SW, and Dr Who has always been niche, but with a strong fanbase that definitely gives a fuck.

Also, another problem is "SJW" has become code for "things I don't agree with because I prefer living in a bubble and/or being an asshole". For example:

It seems Jurassic World 2 is going to be preaching the liberal/sjw message too...

https://variety.com/2018/film/review...tt-1202829194/