From DK to Pally?

[Morally Grey Storm]

Learn to read.

Learn to argue and to not be a twisting liar.

You know that I didn't discuss Ret mobility but Mobility at all compared to Deathknight

But you did.
Though a one-liner like "dk mobility is better anytime!" hardly passes as a coherent opinion or solid contribution to discussion.
But that is that.

But I know, you're that kind of people who need to fingerpoint at anyone who's not their opinion and blame them as a hypocrite so discussing the actual topic is irrelevant due to your attempt to discredit the other one.

Like you did in the previous topic on Ret mobility?
From which you retreated with your tail between your legs?
Oh no, I am nowhere near your levels of fingerpointing and shitting down on others and shutting down others.

All you do is basically "RET MOBILITY IS BAD" without anything to back it up but your own feelings.

At least I am consistent with what I am saying.
Unlike some certain hypocrite.

This is just pathetic

You know what's pathetic?
The way you are trying to wiggle.
Is it so hard to man up and admit to being wrong?

You need to consider the fact that HoF has just a 15 seconds cooldown

25 seconds.
It is 25 seconds.
Here is your chance to man up, don't spoil it.

You need to consider the fact that HoF has just a 15 seconds cooldown and is nothing compared to the downtime in battlegrounds where you run around your mount and get into the enemy base etc.

HoF is mobility? HoF gets me on top of my target at the press of the button?
HoF doesn't get dispelled/spellstolen?
HoF is not a team utility?

[solvexx]

Learn to read. You know that I didn't discuss Ret mobility but Mobility at all compared to Deathknight, I don't know how that makes me a hypocrite
But I know, you're that kind of people who need to fingerpoint at anyone who's not their opinion and blame them as a hypocrite so discussing the actual topic is irrelevant due to your attempt to discredit the other one.
Also, you call people out that they should check their knowledge and facts, yet you haven't put up any data to prove that Ret mobility is actually really bad.
All you do is basically "RET MOBILITY IS BAD" without anything to back it up but your own feelings.
This is just pathetic

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You need to consider the fact that HoF has just a 15 seconds cooldown and is nothing compared to the downtime in battlegrounds where you run around your mount and get into the enemy base etc.

I thought you had all the facts? HoF has a cooldown of 25 seconds.

You are so clueless. Pretty sure you should be reported for trolling since you are trying to instigate arguments with false information.

[Maylander]

Have you ever even played a simple BG as Ret? Divine Steed needs to be used with HoF to even not be snared.

WW removes all snares. You are clueless.

Yes, I have, all the way back to vanilla, where I farmed AB and WSG 7-days a week to get the fancy, gold armor I'm still using as a transmog. I still remember the original PvP competition being held and the tabard it gave (a Rogue called Blitz got it on our server, Shadow Moon. And yes, it was called Shadow Moon, not Shadowmoon back then).

In any kind of semi organized BG, the goal is basically to never fight on fair terms. It's all about gaining advantages through numbers, so only the classes with truly good mobility will notice any difference (DK, Paladin, Warlock etc are all pretty much the same in such a context).

At any rate, this is a rather useless discussion. Even if DK's were vastly superior to Ret in terms of movement in PvP, my original statement would still be accurate: Overall, Ret mobility is better than that of DK's. PvP is a small part of the game, for a small group of people. As long as Ret has better movement during questing, dungeons and raids, they have the better overall movement.

And yes, DK is the slowest class in the game. Hands down, since they are the slowest in almost every type of content the game offers.

[Sandraudiga]

It is objectively better, even without talents.

Wraith Walk: 70%, 3 sec duration, 45 sec CD
VS
Divine Steed: 100%, 3 sec duration, 45 sec CD

Retribution also has BoF for removing slows. So yes, it is better. I never said it was a vast improvement, hence the ".." at the end.

1 minute cooldown in BFA, two charges if talented. DK's remains 45 second last I was on beta and they can talent into a second movement ability. Even if we talent two charges the charges come back once per minute, whereas DKs refresh independently. DKs have better mobility in BFA, whereas we had better in legion.

[Morally Grey Storm]

At any rate, this is a rather useless discussion. Even if DK's were vastly superior to Ret in terms of movement in PvP, my original statement would still be accurate: Overall, Ret mobility is better than that of DK's. PvP is a small part of the game, for a small group of people. As long as Ret has better movement during questing, dungeons or raids, they have the better overall movement.

And yes, DK is the slowest class in the game. Hands down, since they are the slowest in almost every type of content the game offers.

Yes, it is rather useless discussion as you are clueless about BFA and are not keen on providing arguments to your claims, which are>gasp!< in no way facts.

[cocomen2]

Retribution doesn't "also" have HoF.
If you were any good around PvP , you'd knew Steed doesn't work without HoF.
WW, on the other hand, is guaranteed to do what it is supposed to do.

Do you ever heard of "Savix" one of best reti-pally pvpers ever exist atm, so after watching him do 200-400 arenas he won as pally little more than 80% - i saw him ONLY once give in to enemy " i cant beat that elem sham with my mobility" hell 1\200 pvps its FREAKING good score

SO stop crying about ret-pally mobility ;he meant for other things Damage CC Sustain and god if only other classes were on lvl of ret-pally game would be balanced.

[solvexx]

Do you ever heard of "Savix" one of best reti-pally pvpers ever exist atm, so after watching him do 200-400 arenas he won as pally little more than 80% - i saw him ONLY once give in to enemy " i cant beat that elem sham with my mobility" hell 1\200 pvps its FREAKING good score

SO stop crying about ret-pally mobility ;he meant for other things Damage CC Sustain and god if only other classes were on lvl of ret-pally game would be balanced.

You know his whole schtick is calling pony a wheel chair right? Ever 2 seconds he calls ret's mobility trash.|

Winning does not equal good mobility. You're clueless.

[Maylander]

1 minute cooldown in BFA, two charges if talents. DK's remainds 45 second and they can talent into a second movement ability. Even if we talent two charges the charges come back once per minute, whereas DKs refresh independently. DKs have better mobility in BFA, whereas we had better in legion.

WW is a talent in BfA though. They only have Death's Advance baseline, which is currently 30% for 8 seconds. Personally, I'd take Steed over that any day, as sprints are more useful during most encounters than a 30% increase, but it's hard to tell how it will turn out.

At any rate, BfA number tweaking isn't done yet, so it's hard to make any kind of final verdict at this point.

[solvexx]

WW is a talent in BfA though. They only have Death's Advance baseline, which is currently 30% for 8 seconds. Personally, I'd take Steed over that any day, as sprints are more useful during most encounters than a 30% increase, but it's hard to tell how it will turn out.

At any rate, BfA number tweaking isn't done yet, so it's hard to make any kind of final verdict at this point.

Sorry, I wasn't aware that number tweaking effected core mechanics... DK can have immeasurably better mobility with that talent. Ret is trash not matter what.

[Morally Grey Storm]

Do you ever heard of "Savix" one of best reti-pally pvpers ever exist atm, so after watching him do 200-400 arenas he won as pally little more than 80% - i saw him ONLY once give in to enemy " i cant beat that elem sham with my mobility" hell 1\200 pvps its FREAKING good score

SO stop crying about ret-pally mobility ;he meant for other things Damage CC Sustain and god if only other classes were on lvl of ret-pally game would be balanced.

This one?

How does him winning stuff change the fact that Ret mobility is beyond awful and is even worse in BFA?

So stop denying us the right to voice our opinions and concerns.

[Maylander]

Sorry, I wasn't aware that number tweaking effected core mechanics... DK can have immeasurably better mobility with that talent. Ret is trash not matter what.

It can affect anything it wants to affect. Death's Advance has been going back and forth. What if they go back to 15%? Or 0%, meaning it's mainly an anti knock-back? What if they increase it to 50%? Or increase its CD? Or reduce the CD on Steed to Prot levels?

Such things would have a huge impact, so of course number tweaking matters.

[Morally Grey Storm]

WW is a talent in BfA though. They only have Death's Advance baseline

See? Now you are educated on DK mobility in BFA.
No need to thank me

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It can affect anything it wants to affect. Death's Advance has been going back and forth. What if they go back to 15%? Or 0%, meaning it's mainly an anti knock-back? What if they increase it to 50%? Or increase its CD? Or reduce the CD on Steed to Prot levels?

Such things would have a huge impact, so of course number tweaking matters.

What if God-Emperor himself stands up from his Golden Throne to personally fix Ret?
What if you start being a little more coherent and realistic?

[Deleted]

Learn to argue and to not be a twisting liar.

Another hypocrite evidence, you tell me that I should learn to argue, yet your strongest argument is "you're a hypocrite", that's just weak

But you did.
Though a one-liner like "dk mobility is better anytime!" hardly passes as a coherent opinion or solid contribution to discussion.
But that is that.

Learn to read. I was comparing Ret mobility with DK mobility, I didn't say a word about if Ret mobility is good or not, learn to understand conclusions, maybe then somebody will take you serious

Like you did in the previous topic on Ret mobility?
From which you retreated with your tail between your legs?
Oh no, I am nowhere near your levels of fingerpointing and shitting down on others and shutting down others.

At least I know when a discussion doesn't make any sense because hypocrites and cry babies like you start fingerpointing when they know they are wrong

At least I am consistent with what I am saying.
Unlike some certain hypocrite.

The only thing you're consistent with is your stupidity.

You know what's pathetic?
The way you are trying to wiggle.
Is it so hard to man up and admit to being wrong?

I believe its hard for you to man up and admit being wrong, I provided you with the Arena leaderboards in the other thread but still you ignore that so it sounds better in your narrative if we all just ignore statistics and follow your dumb emotions. You are pathetic and a hypocrite

25 seconds.
It is 25 seconds.
Here is your chance to man up, don't spoil it.

Wowhead says something else: http://de.wowhead.com/spell=66115/ha...it#modified-by

HoF is mobility? HoF gets me on top of my target at the press of the button?
HoF doesn't get dispelled/spellstolen?
HoF is not a team utility?

Here we go, you have absolutely no clue how pvp works, HoF could be in fact considered as mobility since it frees you from movement impairing effects, therefore provide you the mobility to close gaps between you and your target.

Your whole argument is based on fingerpointing and blaming others as hypocrite, show me statistics that proof your position, but oh wait you can't because your point of view is absolutely bullshit and everyone is shitting on you

[solvexx]

Another hypocrite evidence, you tell me that I should learn to argue, yet your strongest argument is "you're a hypocrite", that's just weak


Learn to read. I was comparing Ret mobility with DK mobility, I didn't say a word about if Ret mobility is good or not, learn to understand conclusions, maybe then somebody will take you serious

At least I know when a discussion doesn't make any sense because hypocrites and cry babies like you start fingerpointing when they know they are wrong


The only thing you're consistent with is your stupidity.

I believe its hard for you to man up and admit being wrong, I provided you with the Arena leaderboards in the other thread but still you ignore that so it sounds better in your narrative if we all just ignore statistics and follow your dumb emotions. You are pathetic and a hypocrite

Wowhead says something else: http://de.wowhead.com/spell=66115/ha...it#modified-by


Here we go, you have absolutely no clue how pvp works, HoF could be in fact considered as mobility since it frees you from movement impairing effects, therefore provide you the mobility to close gaps between you and your target.

Your whole argument is based on fingerpointing and blaming others as hypocrite, show me statistics that proof your position, but oh wait you can't because your point of view is absolutely bullshit and everyone is shitting on you

Why don't you log in to the game and see what the cooldown is? Clueless.

[Deleted]

This one?

How does him winning stuff change the fact that Ret mobility is beyond awful and is even worse in BFA?

So stop denying us the right to voice our opinions and concerns.

Yeah sure, he won the duel but let's still complain about mobility, the video you posted exactly shows why Ret is completely fine, thank you for your own goal

[solvexx]

Yeah sure, he won the duel but let's still complain about mobility, the video you posted exactly shows why Ret is completely fine, thank you for your own goal

Does the spec have to be completely broken for you to admit Ret's mobility is trash? That is what it seems like at this point.

You are arguing with a Glad exp ret, plus one of the most prominent Ret posters on MMO. Clearly you have no idea.

[Deleted]

Does the spec have to be completely broken for you to admit Ret's mobility is trash? That is what it seems like at this point.

You are arguing with a Glad exp ret, plus one of the most prominent Ret posters on MMO. Clearly you have no idea.

If Ret mobility is really that shit how can someone reach Glad with Ret? I know we live in a time where many people are argueing with their feelings, but- Nah, screw that, I shit on your feelings Ret is fine as long as it is one of the most played speccs in top 50 2v2 and 3v3 Leaderboards
You're clueless btw.

[solvexx]

If Ret mobility is really that shit how can someone reach Glad with Ret? I know we live in a time where many people are argueing with their feelings, but- Nah, screw that, I shit on your feelings Ret is fine as long as it is one of the most played speccs in top 50 2v2 and 3v3 Leaderboards

You want to use the leaderboards? https://www.arenamate.net/

There are more 125% more FDKs than Rets above 1800 on the leaderboards. Guess FDK has better mobility!

There is also only 1 ret in the top 50 worldwide.. Plus 1 DK.. Mhmm.. Your point is moot. There are 3 WWs!!!!! Does that mean that mobility is king?

[Deleted]

You want to use the leaderboards? https://www.arenamate.net/

There are more 125% more FDKs than Rets above 1800 on the leaderboards. Guess FDK has better mobility!

There is also only 1 ret in the top 50 worldwide.. Plus 1 DK.. Mhmm.. Your point is moot. There are 3 WWs!!!!! Does that mean that mobility is king?

Ah nice, was waiting for this
Sure, if you look up arena teams 2v2 with rating 1800+ you will find that Fdk is slightly over Ret (4.7% fdk and 4.8% Ret)
But if we now look up the arena players with rating of 2200+ you can clearly see that Ret Paladin is favoured (6.1% of all specs are Ret, 3.4% is Fdk)

Same goes for 3v3:
1800+
Fdk 5.5% Ret 4.4%

Now 2200+
Ret 5.1% Fdk 4.3%

You can see where this leads to. Is mobility necessary for arena wins? Sure, but it's not all, I give you that. But does it take more experience to climb the ladder for Ret paladins? Yes indeed, that's what the website you posted is showing and I believe there is a coherence between Ret mobility and Arena wins. Winning in Arena or even Battlegrounds (I am talking mainly about Arena now with the data you provided) needs cooldown timing. And so is Ret mobility, you need to know when your divine steed will get you to the enemy and when not, if you mess up completely you will get kited all day long, but Ret is compensating this with the amount of burst damage. It's like a reward system for Ret players, time your cooldowns right, be communicative with your team and when you reach your enemy he will god damn take massive amount of damage.
So in conclusion, if Ret mobility would be as bad as dk mobility or even worse we wouldn't see an incline of Ret paladins in higher arena rankings. People like to dramatize so their opinion sounds more meaningful in their narrative. Ret mobility isn't perfect but it's fine and that's what I am saying the whole time. Give Ret more mobility and less damage and the majority of Ret paladins will reroll other classes since that change would also affect pve gameplay.

So no, no buffs for Ret mobility, Ret mobility is fine.

[Morally Grey Storm]

Another hypocrite evidence, you tell me that I should learn to argue, yet your strongest argument is "you're a hypocrite", that's just weak

But you are one.
That is not my strongest at all.
That is my sufficient enough for an adversary like you.
Not like you were thoroughly debunked by two Retbois in the previous thread and shown for who you truly are: a hypocrite.

Learn to read. I was comparing Ret mobility with DK mobility, I didn't say a word about if Ret mobility is good or not, learn to understand conclusions, maybe then somebody will take you serious

You said you didn't want to discuss the topic yet still left your barely coherent opinion to hang there.
Learn to walk your talk so that you might be taken seriously.

At least I know when a discussion doesn't make any sense

When you barge in?
Like now, when yet again you spew lies, hypocrisy and false facts while shitting on what others might think or say?

The only thing you're consistent with is your stupidity.

Not as much as your burning desire to fail at ad hominems.

I believe its hard for you to man up and admit being wrong, I provided you with the Arena leaderboards in the other thread but still you ignore that so it sounds better in your narrative if we all just ignore statistics and follow your dumb emotions. You are pathetic and a hypocrite

Statistics of 2v2s matter a lot.
Even Schattenlied pointed that out.
You fail at ad hominem yet again ;D

Wowhead says something else: http://de.wowhead.com/spell=66115/ha...it#modified-by

Wowhead is wrong, alas.
You might wish to check ingame and then finally grow a pair to admit to being wrong.
Though I doubt you have the capacity to do so.

Here we go, you have absolutely no clue how pvp works, HoF could be in fact considered as mobility since it frees you from movement impairing effects, therefore provide you the mobility to close gaps between you and your target.

Really, now?
Then Bubble is mobility, too?
BoP, as well?

Your whole argument is based on fingerpointing and blaming others as hypocrite, show me statistics that proof your position, but oh wait you can't because your point of view is absolutely bullshit and everyone is shitting on you

Do you remember what I said at the beginning of this post on how you are burning with desire to fail at ad hominems?
Well, here we are ;D