[Speculation] Old models gone on beta?

[huth]

blizzard can do whatever they want.

No, they can't. Blizzard has finite resources and various other restrictions that prevent them from doing so.

if they wanted to keep adding (like for instance, moving from vanilla to tbc, tbc to wotlk, and so on, which, I bet, required no extra work for old models), then they would do it. if they replace, it's because they don't care enough, or don't care about preserving their work.

Or because they realise that the effort simply isn't worth it. The models look vastly out of place at this point anyway. Preserving their work is part of the reason they're being removed, because they no longer fit into that work and hinder efforts to preserve it.

but to get money you have to make the right decision.

Which it is generally agreed that wasting a crapton of money on something barely anybody cares about is not one.

[Cæli]

No, they can't. Blizzard has finite resources and various other restrictions that prevent them from doing so.


Or because they realise that the effort simply isn't worth it. The models look vastly out of place at this point anyway. Preserving their work is part of the reason they're being removed, because they no longer fit into that work and hinder efforts to preserve it.


Which it is generally agreed that wasting a crapton of money on something barely anybody cares about is not one.

blizzard can do what they want to achieve their goals. their goals is money.

you're not preserving something if you remove it. I don't think caring about your product is a waste of money, I think it's a good long term strategy.

[huth]

blizzard can do what they want to achieve their goals. their goals is money.

They still can't do what they want. They have finite resources, legal restrictions and investors to contend with.

you're not preserving something if you remove it. I don't think caring about your product is a waste of money, I think it's a good long term strategy.

If you keep treating this as a purely emotional issue, you'll never understand why they're making the decisions they do.

They most definitely care about their product. But their product is WoW, not the old player models. It also doesn't save you from having to make economical decisions, and at this point, keeping the old models most definitely wouldn't be economical anymore.

Caring about something also means understanding when to put it to rest, which you clear have issues with.

[Cæli]

They still can't do what they want. They have finite resources, legal restrictions and investors to contend with.



If you keep treating this as a purely emotional issue, you'll never understand why they're making the decisions they do.

They most definitely care about their product. But their product is WoW, not the old player models. It also doesn't save you from having to make economical decisions, and at this point, keeping the old models most definitely wouldn't be economical anymore.

Caring about something also means understanding when to put it to rest, which you clear have issues with.

ok the discussion takes too long I'm ending it -some people disagree just for the sake of it, or an agreement can't happen in a decent amount of time. or, the forum quote system might just give incentives to keep a discussion going without much reasons. thanks for your time

[Super Kami Dende]

Maybe because some people have different taste than you and prefer some of the old models?.

What they prefer no longer matters. Well to be fair it never mattered and they were lucky to even get the original option. The current "old models" also aren't the old models, they are changed for animations anyway.

[Cæli]

What they prefer no longer matters. Well to be fair it never mattered and they were lucky to even get the original option. The current "old models" also aren't the old models, they are changed for animations anyway.

I was refering to a reason to keep them. you're right by saying that it doesn't matter to blizzard.

[Deleted]

Does anyone still play with the old models? I mean on this forum not in general

[Super Kami Dende]

I was refering to a reason to keep them. you're right by saying that it doesn't matter to blizzard.

It doesn't matter to Blizzard or the majority of the Playerbase and was a waste of resource time to make Old shit work when new Models were available.

[Cæli]

It doesn't matter to Blizzard or the majority of the Playerbase and was a waste of resource time to make Old shit work when new Models were available.

it's a waste to those not capable of caring about it enough. it's not a waste for the others.

[huth]

it's a waste to those not capable of caring about it enough. it's not a waste for the others.

"Anybody who doesn't agree with me is incapable."

Is that really the argument you want to go with?

[chr2]

preservation is not about nostalgia. look at yourself and what you've just said. that's not respect. asshole, why? you should have been taught respect. you don't call out someone like. are you not caring about the world you're living in? maybe you don't want children, and that's not a reason to ignore how you contribute by your existence in the world that posterity will live in. if you like one thing in the world, that's them who will preserve it for you when you'll die. if you don't like anything, at least respect those who managed to find interest in some things that exist.

Oh, I know of respect. But I was taught that respect has to be earned. And right now, your comments suggest that you don't deserve my respect.
And since we're on the topic of respect; telling others they don't care enough about something just because they don't share your opinion is also disrespectful.

Still, I do regret insulting you. Not because I don't think that of you, but because it gave you an excuse to ignore my point. So let me try again:

NOT. EVERYONE. THINKS. LIKE. YOU. Preservation is not the objectively right path forward. You might think it is, but others (myself included) won't. In fact, judging by the posts in this thread and the opposition you're receiving you might be in the minority here.

[huth]

Still, I do regret insulting you. Not because I don't think that of you, but because it gave you an excuse to ignore my point.

Don't be. S/he'd ignore your point anyway.

[Cæli]

Oh, I know of respect. But I was taught that respect has to be earned. And right now, your comments suggest that you don't deserve my respect.
And since we're on the topic of respect; telling others they don't care enough about something just because they don't share your opinion is also disrespectful.

Still, I do regret insulting you. Not because I don't think that of you, but because it gave you an excuse to ignore my point. So let me try again:

NOT. EVERYONE. THINKS. LIKE. YOU. Preservation is not the objectively right path forward. You might think it is, but others (myself included) won't. In fact, judging by the posts in this thread and the opposition you're receiving you might be in the minority here.

I think preservation is the objectively right path forward, because life is about preservation. our own existence is about surviving, and surviving is preservation. once we get past the preservation of mankind, I think it's natural to seek preservation of what we create, and what we like, knowing that what we love will keep going after we die. if we don't care about preservation, then we don't care about what we're creating. majority or minority is completely irrelevant here. the majority like red, the minority like green, that doesn't mean I should like red instead of green.

on respect; if respect has to be earned, then it means that there's a moment where you lack respect to people who deserve respect. everyone deserve respect by default. lacking respect creates problem. hence that is not a good way of doing things. respect should be easily lost. and even then I personally have a high tolerance, and believe the world would be better if people had higher tolerance, but you can't change people, so going with "easily lost" sounds like a good compromise. we can't judge someone without knowing him. I don't think I lacked respect to anyone here, never went against someone, defending our opinions has nothing to do with it. I recognize that it can be hard to keep calm in debates where you don't agree, but that's how you should do in a civilized environment. else it's chaos. maybe you like chaos

Don't be. S/he'd ignore your point anyway.

how necessary is it to you to prove your point? I have something to defend, models I like, and a general philosophy of preservation, but I don't get why you keep trying to prove me that your opinion is valid, and mine is not. either you have something to lose, or not. what do you have to lose? anyway no point in continuing like I said, better to stop, we won't agree on this any time soon.

[huth]

I think preservation is the objectively right path forward, because life is about preservation.

It's the exact opposite. Life is about change. Survival is achieved through adaptation, with those refusing to adapt dying out when the enviroment no longer supports them. This is easily observable, and as such, objective.

Also "i think x is objectively..." is a contradiction. If it is objectively right, what you think about it doesn't matter. If you only think it is right, it isn't objective.

[Aceveda]

I think it's a bug. I ran into some old model female gnomes in the freehold dungeon the other day. Was super weird. Something isn't right.

Could we get a picture/vid of those old gnome models? Curious if they use the old skeleton aswell, or is it just the skin?

As for the toggle, if they were planning to remove all old models completely, then why didn't they remove the toggle early alpha/beta? We're 2 months from launch, and the toggle option is still in (they even updated the strings of the toggle a few builds back, instead of removing it). Hopefully they're working on bringing them back, maybe they'll bring them over once classic is done?

[rrayy]

Maybe because some people have different taste than you and prefer some of the old models? Or because it's a lack of respect toward those who made something, to remove that something with no option.

A lot of things have been removed from the game since launch. The game has to evolve. They don't need to hold on to things simply because a very small minority of players can't let go.

[Cæli]

It's the exact opposite. Life is about change. Survival is achieved through adaptation, with those refusing to adapt dying out when the enviroment no longer supports them. This is easily observable, and as such, objective.

Also "i think x is objectively..." is a contradiction. If it is objectively right, what you think about it doesn't matter. If you only think it is right, it isn't objective.

Uuh. Life is about preservation. Life is meant to survive, which means preserving itself. First you preserve, then you evolve. Ask yourself : how would we escape the death of the sun, if we don't preserve our knowledge? if we don't preserve our health, our children? You can adapt as much as you want, without preserving things first, we won't make it very far. Also with new technologies like CRISPR, it won't be about changes anymore (for us at least). We'll be able to correct and improve ourselves with the sum of our knowledge, our future lies in preserving what we have, in order to evolve without losing anything, just adding things.

- - - Updated - - -

A lot of things have been removed from the game since launch. The game has to evolve. They don't need to hold on to things simply because a very small minority of players can't let go.

Probably adding things to the game is interesting, but preserving the work of the devs is something different. My point was that the idea of preservation is not harming the game, it's healthy for itself to have its assets preserved. If everything is replaced, and nothing preserved, the game will simply stop existing as we knew it. Something like wow has tremendous value for humanity in my opinion.

[Aceveda]

They've fixed a lot of the original issues with the new models. I still think faces look to similar compared to the old models though. The big issue for me is the hair colour. They aren't even remotely similar on the new and old models for some of my characters. My dwarf has bright orange hair with the old model. With the new model it's is considerably darker. With the new models they removed all the bright hair colours.

That's such a shame, blizzard promised they would keep everything the same, but "up your character to HD" (which they've clearly failed to deliver). Then there's the new running animations, they're terrible, dwarf males got one of the worst updates, it's so horribly bouncy..

[huth]

Uuh. Life is about preservation. Life is meant to survive, which means preserving itself. First you preserve, then you evolve. Ask yourself : how would we escape the death of the sun, if we don't preserve our knowledge?

Preservation isn't going to be much help there. By the time the sun dies, we'll be long gone from the solar system one way or another.

Life has survived without any attempt at preservation just fine for millions of years before we even existed. And CRISPR based technologies are all about directed change.

You know what we call it when something only grows with never letting go of anything? Cancer.

[rrayy]

Uuh. Life is about preservation. Life is meant to survive, which means preserving itself. First you preserve, then you evolve. Ask yourself : how would we escape the death of the sun, if we don't preserve our knowledge? if we don't preserve our health, our children? You can adapt as much as you want, without preserving things first, we won't make it very far. Also with new technologies like CRISPR, it won't be about changes anymore (for us at least). We'll be able to correct and improve ourselves with the sum of our knowledge, our future lies in preserving what we have, in order to evolve without losing anything, just adding things.

- - - Updated - - -



Probably adding things to the game is interesting, but preserving the work of the devs is something different. My point was that the idea of preservation is not harming the game, it's healthy for itself to have its assets preserved. If everything is replaced, and nothing preserved, the game will simply stop existing as we knew it. Something like wow has tremendous value for humanity in my opinion.

There is absolutely no need for it to be preserved. There is no reason to continue to waste resources on things that only a very small minority of the playerbase still cares for. Blizzard has always talked about moving forward. Keeping old stuff for the sake of it is not moving forward. That is staying stuck in the past.

Oh, and how will you survive life threatening illnesses like Cancer if you don't get rid of it? How is your life going to preserved if you keep it?