Sylvanas considers Tauren to be tools?

[NatePsy]

Magatha could make the Tauren suit Horde culture better. Let’s get rid of Baine and his cronies and get some Grimtotem instead.

Soz bro, Tauren, Pandaren, Trolls and Orcs will always have a code of honour, Sylvanas is just going to have to change her leadership style to suit the majority, that's how it works bud, majority rules. Either she changes her tune or we'll change her position for her just like we did Garrosh when he pulled that shit.

How it's gotta be, dude. Go play SWTOR Sith if you want to be an edgelord because Forsaken ain't the embodiment of the Horde.

[Leodric]

To be fair, that was Thrall's Horde that drove off the Centaur and that does not exist with Sylvanas' current reign, not even the same Horde, nowhere close. She wasn't even there in that time period to help his people anyway so he owes her jack shit. The only fool here is you for not remembering the history of the Horde very well. .

Afaik it was only the orcs or was the darkspear also involved already? I can't remember anymore. The Forsaken were not involved, that's true.

[Deleted]

It doesn't matter how much of it he cut off. Symbolically it shows Alliance sympathies.

Baine and Anduin have basically been friends since Cataclysm.

Thunder Bluff was very much a target, the great wall was erected to defend Mulgore and the Alliance were setting up siege engines to break it down. They had every intention of attacking the area.

Not because of any hatred for the Tauren though, simply for strategic reasons. The Tauren are part of the Horde, Mulgore is a Horde city. If you're at war with the Horde, you're at war with the whole Horde. It was unfortunate, but nothing personal.

[NatePsy]

Afaik it was only the orcs or was the darkspear also involved already? I can't remember anymore. The Forsaken were not involved, that's true.

From what I remember, Thrall's Horde crashed into the Islands while venturing to Kalimdor and sought to aid the Trolls, I'm pretty sure the Tauren came after. But yeah, Forsaken had zero affiliation with the aiding of the Tauren against the Centaur.

[Aeula]

Soz bro, Tauren, Pandaren, Trolls and Orcs will always have a code of honour, Sylvanas is just going to have to change her leadership style to suit the majority, that's how it works bud, majority rules. Either she changes her tune or we'll change her position for her just like we did Garrosh when he pulled that shit.

How it's gotta be, dude. Go play SWTOR Sith if you want to be an edgelord because Forsaken ain't the embodiment of the Horde.

Including Houjin Pandaren and one tribe of trolls (The smallest, even) in your idea of a ‘majority’. Lul.

Even the Orcs are split on ‘honor’. As WoD and Garry have shown.

The only thing holding the Horde back are the Tauren and a few holdouts who don’t understand what it takes to win a war. Baine and Saurfang being prime examples.

The Forsaken aren’t the embodiment of the Horde true. But you don’t need to be Forsaken to know that Baine and his ilk are morons who would doom the Horde.

[Dagoth Ur]

Even though excerpt is supposed to reflect Sylvanas' inner thoughts, which are obviously a bit sarcastic too, I just find the whole notion of tauren supposedly being willing to switch to Alliance if only Baine commanded it a bit stupid. I always thought of tauren as virtually in love with the idea of the Horde and are mostly following Cairne's vision of how it should be. Wouldn't be surprised if only reason they even put up with Baine is just out of respect for Cairne.

[Aeula]

Even though excerpt is supposed to reflect Sylvanas' inner thoughts, which are obviously a bit sarcastic too, I just find the whole notion of tauren supposedly being willing to switch to Alliance if only Baine commanded it a bit stupid. I always thought of tauren as virtually in love with the idea of the Horde and are mostly following Cairne's vision of how it should be. Wouldn't be surprised if only reason they even put up with Baine is just out of respect for Cairne.

I’d like that to be the case. Hopefully they’ll willingly remove Baine from power some day when they realise what he’s been doing.

[Super Dickmann]

She's right. Baine is a traitor and has been since he exiled his own people for fighting back at the very latest.

[Arrashi]

Soz bro, Tauren, Pandaren, Trolls and Orcs will always have a code of honour, Sylvanas is just going to have to change her leadership style to suit the majority, that's how it works bud, majority rules. Either she changes her tune or we'll change her position for her just like we did Garrosh when he pulled that shit.

How it's gotta be, dude. Go play SWTOR Sith if you want to be an edgelord because Forsaken ain't the embodiment of the Horde.

Unless they are commiting genocide and killing their allies.

[Kithelle]

How is Baine acting like a child?

Because he isn't yelling "RAWR....WAR...KILLING....DEATH." Like their BFF Sylvanus?

[Kralljin]

She's right. Baine is a traitor and has been since he exiled his own people for fighting back at the very latest.

Been awhile since i've read The Shattering but didn't like the Grimtotem stage a coup to dispose him?
Leaving the fact aside that Magatha basically used the circumstance to murder Cairne.

Please correct me if we aren't talking about the Grimtotem in the Shattering here but Baine not killing Magatha on the spot was one of those spineless moves in my opinion.

[Super Dickmann]

Been awhile since i've read The Shattering but didn't like the Grimtotem stage a coup to dispose him?
Leaving the fact aside that Magatha basically used the circumstance to murder Cairne.

Please correct me if we aren't talking about the Grimtotem in the Shattering here but Baine not killing Magatha on the spot was one of those spineless moves in my opinion.

Baine should have killed Magatha, but I don't think sparing her messed with his character nearly as much as exiling those who took vengeance for Taurajo, which is what I was referencing. It is one of the cases where from the Horde view, lacking context, it was entirely senseless aggression against his population and he still struck out at his own while going out of his way to assist Jaina, who partly enabled the attack to happen through Theramore.

[Amaterasu65]

I actually feel sorry for the Tauren, they are too pro-peace & coexistence to be of anything of use in this war, but soldiers getting ordered to die. The current story doesn't match them well, even the newly added void elves and the gnomes showed more war potential than them.

That said, as an Alliance player I don't want them in my ranks, since we already have nature-centric and peace-centric races (NE and Draenei respectively), but I also feel the Horde needs a race to balance out the currently main warmongering factions (Forsaken/Orcs>Goblins). It creates diversity within the main faction.

[Yatagarasu]

Lol how horde fans are acting towards Baine, he's from Thralls old school, what do you expect of him? He's like pre-Mop Jaina, trying to find peace between factions, but I don't recall such negativity towards Jaina when she was pro-peace as now towards Baine. Dude's cool and chill, he's true hordie and time and time again proves that he cares for Horde, I cannot understand what else do you expect from tauren. Not every leader has to be warmongering bloodthirsty maniacs, leave it for sylvanas.

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He cut off his blowing horn, Jesus Christ, look at his art, he has this blowing horn thingie

My guess for this is 1. Jaina is a much more developed character + hot female. 2. Blizzards lack of character development for literally any other horde(and alliance) leader except the ones that play main role (and even then it's questionable). 3. Taurens were kinda never that popular to begin with, with Cairne or Baine it doesn't really matter (again Blizzards fault for not using them more often in the plot). 4. People nowadays adore violence, just look at political posts on this website you'll find many extremists from both sides who want people with different opinions punched or worse, my idea is that if the leader wants world peace and doesn't act like an agressive mongrel everyone thinks it's foolish or childish.
TLDR; Do I think Baine is boring? Very True, but it's completely Blizzards fault for not doing their job right. Is he childish or stupid? Not really.

[Mehrunes]

Oh my god. Yeah he definitely is super Alliance by...continuing acting exactly the same as he always has by trying to maintain peace.

What a nu-male soyboy Alliance cuck amirite.

Anybody who isn't an insane warmonger like Sylvanas is apparently is an Alliance stooge.

Yeah, betraying the Horde and warning Theramore in advance is totally just not acting like a warmonger and trying to maintain the peace. KrazyK once again strikes with his keen perception.

Vast exaggeration. Also Jaina actively helped him during Magatha's coup while Anduin gave him Fearbreaker to help retake Thunder Bluff, does that make them Horde stooges? Are you truly incapable of understanding that characters can be loyal to a faction but dislike the constant warmongering and TRY to make peace with the other one?

Have you not seen their High King's reaction to learning that or are you just honestly not mentioning that?

Another exaggeration. All he said was that it was a legitimate military target. Either he had people actually listen to him as leader or they were exiled because the other option was, you know, to attack the Alliance outright and cause them to retaliate against them. You know, the thing he's trying to stop, the escalation of aggression?

Yeah, totally nothing wrong with exiling his fellow Tauren for trying to retaliate against aggression by Jaina's forces, in a war started by the Alliance. Totally no Alliance sycophancy there.

[steelballfc]

i would be ok with baine dead.
he is useless.

[Mehrunes]

He sends a "chip" of his horn to him after Sylvanas, who flatout lies to him during the novel and then ignores his wishes to help the Alliance rebuild Cenarion Hold, demands he stops communicating with Anduin. He doesn't "cut off his horn." You're exaggerating. Anduin has always maintained positive ties to the Tauren, whether its Baine or Sunwalker Dezco. Ignoring stuff that has spanned multiple expansions because the edgelord queen is the Warchief now and just wants to murder everybody who doesn't obey her is disingenuous at best.

Is invoking Dezco, a guy that went AWOL and went to Krasarang on his own because visions told him to, then refused to capture Anduin despite that being the imperative of the actual Horde expedition to pandaria supposed to help your argument?

Except Thunder Bluff wasn't a target of the Alliance during Cataclysm, they're literally just trying to get through to the Night Elves. If the Tauren suddenly go all-in on attacking the Alliance, they would definitely actively try to destroy them at that point. Do you really not understand what is going on in this quest chain?

Yeah, Mulgore that Alliance tried to invade is a known shortcut from Dustwallow to Kaldorei territory

Baine ain't going to do shite. All he did in Siege of Orgrimmar was ask Vol'jin 'What do we do next?!' repeatedly. He's too dumb to mount a rebellion.

Hey, that is not true. He also expressed delusions that Garrosh betrayed his father.

You seem to be vastly exaggerating everything Baine says or does in an effort to smear him for some reason. You also clearly haven't even read the book and are just whining about out of context bad spoilers from a shitty thread. You seem to think anybody striving for peace instead of being a warmongering villain suddenly means they're just being a cheerleader for the other faction. Which is demonstrably untrue, as Baine's loyalty to the Horde is possibly the most unquestionable out of them all. He doesn't even leave after the Warchief murders his own father and doesn't help him reclaim Thunder Bluff after it gets invaded.

I know none of what I said will actually stop you from just exaggerating to the point of flatout lying, so enjoy being entirely disingenuous in this conversation, I'm done repeating myself.

I like how you accuse @Aeula of exaggerating and flat out lying and then say Garrosh murdered Cairne. He did not. He killed him in a legal challenge that Cairne himself issued. Which ended in the death of Cairne because of machinations of another Tauren.

I love how the one-sided horde fanatics are all screaming.

Baine and Saurfang are the only two rational leaders left (maybe Lor'Themar but we don't hear much from him), you can scream that they're cucks or insult them with your emasculating slurs all you want it just shows how irrational, insecure and violent you people are.

I mean unless you're just RPing then have fun I guess.

Lie some more. The only person using the word cuck or any other emasculating slurs here is an Alliance poster. In defense of Baine.

[Kithelle]

Everyone is a tool to her, they're just expendable heroes to her...she doesn't care how many die as long as it isn't her who is dying...already made it clear she will kill her own people just to save her own rear.

[Mehrunes]

Thank god Blizzard ignores that insane part of the fandom.

So what you are saying is that they will ignore the part of the fandom that cannot even handle Sylvanas being in a cinematic and as such Sylvanas will live forever?

A lot of these complaints would vanish if Baine would start acting like his father, who attacked the Alliance if he saw the Horde being threatened by them and challenged people for Warchief who he thinks are unfit.

That would require him making a 180 shift. Which could be only explained by an alien parasite. Which would lead to mercy killing of Baine anyway.

[Super Dickmann]

So what you are saying is that they will ignore the part of the fandom that cannot even handle Sylvanas being in a cinematic and as such Sylvanas will live forever?.

Sylvanas is immortal because she has a nice rack. This will ensure the Horde leaders disagreeing with her remain feeble pussies who back out of any effective opposition to her rule. I'd find this bad writing if it weren't for how insufferable the people whining about her are.