How Can PvP Be Realistically Improved?

[Deleted]

Yeah, agreed. Sometimes PvP is just exhausting because it goes on and on and on...

Yea like when 3 people are trying to kill healer in BG and he instaheal himself from 10% to full several times.

[Deleted]

Shorter, more fast paced games!
Which means increased DPS, reduced CC, reduced healing! It should be more about reflexes and the ability to act really fast. Todays PvP is so boring and dragged out. I tried watching the Arena tournament and litterally fell asleep. It could have been cause it was 5am or it could have been the games themselves, which I honestly thinks!

This person is the archetype of all the people that Blizzard is pandering too.

"Make it about reflexes and acting fast"

My Gooooooooooooooooood. You almost ruined my day with that level of idiocy.

[Battlebeard]

This person is the archetype of all the people that Blizzard is pandering too.

"Make it about reflexes and acting fast"

My Gooooooooooooooooood. You almost ruined my day with that level of idiocy.

Care to elaborate on that, as in why it would be idiotic?

I absolutely think that shorter fights are more fun and honestly more skill-based, as reacting fast and handling things under stress is more skills than fighting for 5min, in a slower speed.

[Deleted]

Care to elaborate on that, as in why it would be idiotic?

I absolutely think that shorter fights are more fun and honestly more skill-based, as reacting fast and handling things under stress is more skills than fighting for 5min, in a slower speed.

What is fun is subjective, so just stop that idiotic crap. Please. Never make the same argument again, for the sake of every person who accidentally will read your comments in the future or simply hear you talk.

The reason PvP shouldn't just be about reaction is because people have something called a rather advanced brain, which is capable of performing a variety of tasks rather than just an instinctual one like reflex/reaction. It allows you to calculate logically and produce something creative, and this enables for a whole lot of diversity in how things can be done. Games should reflect upon it, meaning they should allow for you to use as much of your brain talents as possible, so that competition becomes more diverse in performances and even results. Having only to use basic instincts produces monotone performances as we often see in FPS-games.

Your kind is the reason why intelligent people are suffering in modern games. You want everything easy and instinctual so that even the monkey in your local zoo can learn to play. You really should be ashamed of yourself.

[Nihilan]

What is fun is subjective, so just stop that idiotic crap. Please. Never make the same argument again, for the sake of every person who accidentally will read your comments in the future or simply hear you talk.

The reason PvP shouldn't just be about reaction is because people have something called a rather advanced brain, which is capable of performing a variety of tasks rather than just an instinctual one like reflex/reaction. It allows you to calculate logically and produce something creative, and this enables for a whole lot of diversity in how things can be done. Games should reflect upon it, meaning they should allow for you to use as much of your brain talents as possible, so that competition becomes more diverse in performances and even results. Having only to use basic instincts produces monotone performances as we often see in FPS-games.

Your kind is the reason why intelligent people are suffering in modern games. You want everything easy and instinctual so that even the monkey in your local zoo can learn to play. You really should be ashamed of yourself.

So, tldr, but your reflexes are too slow to keep up with fast paced twitch combat?

Im loving that you think "muh-intellect!" means you should be able to keep up with people who are faster and better at reading situations and making snap decisions than you in a videogame pvp situation.

Are you sure you wouldnt prefer a nice exhilarating game of chess or something?

[Deleted]

So, tldr, but your reflexes are too slow to keep up with fast paced twitch combat?

Im loving that you think "muh-intellect!" means you should be able to keep up with people who are faster and better at reading situations and making snap decisions than you in a videogame pvp situation.

Are you sure you wouldnt prefer a nice exhilarating game of chess or something?

I never said anybody is faster or better at reading situations than I am, only that I prefer more than just being fast on acting. You need to be smart on acting, too. It's not an FPS game.

If you think you're smart and talented, then why oppose a more complex PvP system similar to what we had pre-WoD? Surely you can use your "fast acting skills and excellent ability at reading situations" well in that case, no? I'd like to see that.

[Arrashi]

PvP won't get improved as long as blizzard thinks that abilities that make you unable to control your character for 6-8 seconds are good design.

[Battlebeard]

What is fun is subjective, so just stop that idiotic crap. Please. Never make the same argument again, for the sake of every person who accidentally will read your comments in the future or simply hear you talk.

The reason PvP shouldn't just be about reaction is because people have something called a rather advanced brain, which is capable of performing a variety of tasks rather than just an instinctual one like reflex/reaction. It allows you to calculate logically and produce something creative, and this enables for a whole lot of diversity in how things can be done. Games should reflect upon it, meaning they should allow for you to use as much of your brain talents as possible, so that competition becomes more diverse in performances and even results. Having only to use basic instincts produces monotone performances as we often see in FPS-games.

Your kind is the reason why intelligent people are suffering in modern games. You want everything easy and instinctual so that even the monkey in your local zoo can learn to play. You really should be ashamed of yourself.

Well, I do admit that I come from an FPS background and that games like CS:GO is the ideal PvP game in my opinion. And, yes, fun is subjective. I would love WoW to take the step away from long fights. While I think that calculating fights can also be fun, there comes a limit where it goes from strategic fights to ridicilous fights. I have seen arena games that last 20 minutes. While my ideal fight would be maybe one minute, I think, pure objectively, that any fight that last longer than 5 minutes should bore anyone to death, regardless of anything else.

WoW arena tournament is the biggest snoozefest in the world, though a good solution for insomnia.

In all seriousness, and my clear preferences, saying that short fights require no skill is also wrong. While there is not aim in WoW pvp, fast reactions also require a lot of brain activity. Just look at Starcraft, where they have an insane amount of actions per minute. That in WoW, where you really have to focus intensely for a minute or two and chose your ability to perfection, is not something a monkey could handle.

It's two different types of skill, and, I mean, maybe I am not looking good enough, but I see very little hype about WoW pvp. Maybe it's time for a change. Take some inspiration from FPS games and make it more fast paced.

[Natrii]

My big things is they need to pick one.

Melee: you can either kill me near instant, and actually be kite able again or they need to tone down the damage for melee if they can stay glued to a caster almost nonstop.

Healers: Make healing lower or Make mana an issue again. I miss mana burn

Tanks: Unkillable and general annoying or Killable and deadly.

Ranged: Amazing damage and squishy or Lower damage, but tanky and mobile


my 2c

[Kagthul]

Well, I do admit that I come from an FPS background and that games like CS:GO is the ideal PvP game in my opinion. And, yes, fun is subjective. I would love WoW to take the step away from long fights. While I think that calculating fights can also be fun, there comes a limit where it goes from strategic fights to ridicilous fights. I have seen arena games that last 20 minutes. While my ideal fight would be maybe one minute, I think, pure objectively, that any fight that last longer than 5 minutes should bore anyone to death, regardless of anything else.

WoW arena tournament is the biggest snoozefest in the world, though a good solution for insomnia.

In all seriousness, and my clear preferences, saying that short fights require no skill is also wrong. While there is not aim in WoW pvp, fast reactions also require a lot of brain activity. Just look at Starcraft, where they have an insane amount of actions per minute. That in WoW, where you really have to focus intensely for a minute or two and chose your ability to perfection, is not something a monkey could handle.

It's two different types of skill, and, I mean, maybe I am not looking good enough, but I see very little hype about WoW pvp. Maybe it's time for a change. Take some inspiration from FPS games and make it more fast paced.

First off, lets start off with the fact/realization/statement that “PvP Game” is not a genre.

First Person Shooters are a genre (and, one could say, since they play largely the same, Third Person Shooters). RTS games are a genre. MMOs are a genre.

All three of those genres have games that have PvP in them, and games that dont. Some games of all three genres are exclusively one or the other. But “PvP Game” is not a genre.

All the genres play extremely differently, and have different skillsets and even aptitudes that make people good or bad at them. How many APM someone is capable of in SC/2 is utterly irrelevant in an MMO or Shooter and can actually be a detriment. I have a good friend who is an absolute wizard at SC2. Regularly competes in the top brackets (Diamond every season, often Master if hes actively playing a lot). His APM is through the roof. He cant PvP in WoW to save his life. Keyboard turners can kill him. He just doesnt have the mindset to excel at MMO PvP.

If you want to take away the long fights, get the fuck out of Arena.

Arena is the biggest cancer on WoWs PvP and has been since the day it was implemented. Ever since they decided to balance solely around Arena, balance has eroded steadily, because Arena can ONLY be about LOLDETHMATCH, and forces all balance decisions to revolve solely around that metric. Utility abilities get pruned or altered because while they are fine in BGs they are brokenly OP in Arena or completely useless.

Healers are broken in Arena because theynhave to be able to successfully heal 2-4/5 people in PvE and BGs to be remotely useful. Thats why games run long.

Want to better WoW PvP? Quit focusing and balancing around Arena. Its cancer. It has NEVER been an activity that even a large portion of the PvP crowd particpated in (millions of people got the 25k Conquest achievements every Season for years (roughly 45%-48% of the entire max-level population, depending on season), but less than 20% of those people had any relevant Arena achievements (so less than 10% of players) - in the best seasons for Arena participation ever. It usually hovers around 13-15%. (5.5-7% of the player base). In Legion, the number of people who have enough Honor to get to Prestige 8 is 4%. For reference, thats the equivalent of getting the 25K Conquest achievement for a SINGLE SEASON previously. The number of people at Prestige 12+ (which anyone actively participating in Arena would be AT LEAST - almost assuredly at the cap, but i chose 12 to give all the benefit of the doubt i could) is sub 2%. Im Prestige 15 on my main, and havent done any Arena at all, and less than 30 BGs all xpac - purely from PvP WQs, and we all know how much PvP goes on there. So the number of people actively Arena’ing is well below 2%.

Its been as big a waste of resources as hardcore raiding was from minute one. The old devs, who led WoW through its glory days, admitted outright that Arena was a huge mistake more than once.

Quit focusing on deathmatch, and all classes can be viable in PvP with all specs. tanks can be disuptors/controllers and dont have tomhave their damage inflated or survivability nerfed to be useful, for instance.

[Conditions]

First off, lets start off with the fact/realization/statement that “PvP Game” is not a genre.

First Person Shooters are a genre (and, one could say, since they play largely the same, Third Person Shooters). RTS games are a genre. MMOs are a genre.

All three of those genres have games that have PvP in them, and games that dont. Some games of all three genres are exclusively one or the other. But “PvP Game” is not a genre.

All the genres play extremely differently, and have different skillsets and even aptitudes that make people good or bad at them. How many APM someone is capable of in SC/2 is utterly irrelevant in an MMO or Shooter and can actually be a detriment. I have a good friend who is an absolute wizard at SC2. Regularly competes in the top brackets (Diamond every season, often Master if hes actively playing a lot). His APM is through the roof. He cant PvP in WoW to save his life. Keyboard turners can kill him. He just doesnt have the mindset to excel at MMO PvP.

If you want to take away the long fights, get the fuck out of Arena.

Arena is the biggest cancer on WoWs PvP and has been since the day it was implemented. Ever since they decided to balance solely around Arena, balance has eroded steadily, because Arena can ONLY be about LOLDETHMATCH, and forces all balance decisions to revolve solely around that metric. Utility abilities get pruned or altered because while they are fine in BGs they are brokenly OP in Arena or completely useless.

Healers are broken in Arena because theynhave to be able to successfully heal 2-4/5 people in PvE and BGs to be remotely useful. Thats why games run long.

Want to better WoW PvP? Quit focusing and balancing around Arena. Its cancer. It has NEVER been an activity that even a large portion of the PvP crowd particpated in (millions of people got the 25k Conquest achievements every Season for years (roughly 45%-48% of the entire max-level population, depending on season), but less than 20% of those people had any relevant Arena achievements (so less than 10% of players) - in the best seasons for Arena participation ever. It usually hovers around 13-15%. (5.5-7% of the player base). In Legion, the number of people who have enough Honor to get to Prestige 8 is 4%. For reference, thats the equivalent of getting the 25K Conquest achievement for a SINGLE SEASON previously. The number of people at Prestige 12+ (which anyone actively participating in Arena would be AT LEAST - almost assuredly at the cap, but i chose 12 to give all the benefit of the doubt i could) is sub 2%. Im Prestige 15 on my main, and havent done any Arena at all, and less than 30 BGs all xpac - purely from PvP WQs, and we all know how much PvP goes on there. So the number of people actively Arena’ing is well below 2%.

Its been as big a waste of resources as hardcore raiding was from minute one. The old devs, who led WoW through its glory days, admitted outright that Arena was a huge mistake more than once.

Quit focusing on deathmatch, and all classes can be viable in PvP with all specs. tanks can be disuptors/controllers and dont have tomhave their damage inflated or survivability nerfed to be useful, for instance.

Even as an R1 Shaman I agree with this, rated was the worst thing to happen to PvP in this game lol. Arenas are a good concept, but have long since been the root issue of desperate attempts to balance the PvP in this game when many would probably just be happy having battlegrounds with a solo q for rated.

[Deleted]

How Can PvP Be Realistically Improved

Nerfing horde racials or improving the alliance ones. Finish.

[Mazaxist]

Blizzard could fix PVP but they probably won't because they want to maximize profits $.

1) remove PVP templates
2) remove RNG loot, return vendors
3) balance melee's mobility
4) unprune classes (example return frostbolt/cone of cold to fire mage or blind/gouge to rogue etc)
5) make mana scale with gear, remove unlimited mana (example druid flag carrier should not be able to shift forms 10000 times and be at 100% mana)

[Osmeric]

WatcherDev recently wrote in a tweet that "Gear will be available in good quality".. but from rated gameplay only.

Does that mean you cant get any gear from matchmade battlegrounds?

Pretty much, although there's going to be some sort of weekly conquest-like thing even from unrated PvP.

[Defias-Pillager]

Half of it is to blame on Blizzard, and half on the playerbase.

Blizzard dumbing the classes down, templates were an awful idea, Arena focused balance hasn't worked for a decade and people barely give a shit about it, almost everything is an AOE cleave or AOE hard CC.

The playerbase today are a bunch of whiners that lose to something and conclude it's the hand of God punching them in the face and not looking at what they can do to improve. They're lost MOBA players that want the game to revolve around their whims. And look at the arena forums for proof of that shit. You can have a week of them saying a class is fine and balanced, then one week later it suddenly became a big problem and God forbid that class found lots of success in one of the 2k viewer tournaments. I've read some of the zaniest shit on there. Destruction Lock is fine, just kidding, Chaos Bolt does too much damage. Affliction Lock takes more skill than Shadow Priest, Outlaw Rogues are dogshit but now they're fine because they saw some EU guy make the gimmicky playstyle work, Shamans are weak depending on the shape of the moon this week, Unholy is somehow complicated, etc. They're bitchmade.

Like, you have people say melee have super high uptime and then you'll see them say in another topic that Mages having multiple blinks is insanely unfair. 40 years ago they'd be flinging their excrement at walls and being held down by strongarms to get medication. Fuck these weirdos.

[Conditions]

Nerfing horde racials or improving the alliance ones. Finish.

Alliance is still the predominant faction in Europe, like it almost always has been. Skip.

[Deleted]

Alliance is still the predominant faction in Europe, like it almost always has been. Skip.

I'm european, and alliance is only predominant in 2vs2 and 3vs3 arenas in Legion, but dont try to play Bgs.

[twistedmynd]

Half of it is to blame on Blizzard, and half on the playerbase.

Blizzard dumbing the classes down, templates were an awful idea, Arena focused balance hasn't worked for a decade and people barely give a shit about it, almost everything is an AOE cleave or AOE hard CC.

The playerbase today are a bunch of whiners that lose to something and conclude it's the hand of God punching them in the face and not looking at what they can do to improve. They're lost MOBA players that want the game to revolve around their whims. And look at the arena forums for proof of that shit. You can have a week of them saying a class is fine and balanced, then one week later it suddenly became a big problem and God forbid that class found lots of success in one of the 2k viewer tournaments. I've read some of the zaniest shit on there. Destruction Lock is fine, just kidding, Chaos Bolt does too much damage. Affliction Lock takes more skill than Shadow Priest, Outlaw Rogues are dogshit but now they're fine because they saw some EU guy make the gimmicky playstyle work, Shamans are weak depending on the shape of the moon this week, Unholy is somehow complicated, etc. They're bitchmade.

Like, you have people say melee have super high uptime and then you'll see them say in another topic that Mages having multiple blinks is insanely unfair. 40 years ago they'd be flinging their excrement at walls and being held down by strongarms to get medication. Fuck these weirdos.

lawl. /thread

[Conditions]

I'm european, and alliance is only predominant in 2vs2 and 3vs3 arenas in Legion, but dont try to play Bgs.

Yeah but BGs are irrelevant when we're talking about class balance, as the game is balanced for Arena (or at least a vague attempt to be)

[enjoy123]

How to balance pvp: don't give every class a AOE CC, Dont give alll meles more mobility than keybinds, Don't make casters oneshot with 1 button, and make ret pallys do less dmg in bubble, da fuck being 100% immune and doing 100% dmg, oh, and why can mele do dmg with Bop on them? ^^seems so retarted, i play dk, if i get bopd i shoulnd be able to just pop off on a healer, yeah dont make CC trinket the most important defensive for a healer, dying in 1 stun is not fun, and less so for newer players that are healing for the first time, it's the worst pvp has been in wow, make consistent dmg matter, frost bold shouldnt hit for 100k and ebon bolt shouldnt hit fro 1.6m