If you've read Before the Storm...what did you think? (Spoilers obviously)

[Traveler Voltin]

I don't think "Before the Storm" is that bad, actually - I would say it's a 2.5/5 book, not stellar but not abysmal trash, either. It flows well and has a lot of rich detail as concerns many characters, and scenes that are both emotionally charged and poignant. Characterization could use some work, and Golden doesn't pull any punches with her respective "favorites" among the WoW cast as it were. I think people who are concerned with "moral grayness" would be shocked to find there's very little grayness to this novel - Nathanos and Sylvanas are both presented as pretty much evil through and through, and Anuduin and his peers are pretty solidly presented as forces for good. Genn is actually the "grayest" character of the book, but even he comes around by the conclusion to a degree.

she recton the forsaken and pissed to official forums off so much that both alliance and horde players agree that she is bad.

[Aucald]

she recton the forsaken and pissed to official forums off so much that both alliance and horde players agree that she is bad.

She didn't retcon the Forsaken at all, though. We all knew the Forsaken had free will and independent spirits from day one. They're not the literal slaves of Sylvanas - and many of them still embrace their essential humanity and/or nobler aspirations despite their undead state. They're not a monolith one way or the other.

Most of the people exceedingly upset that I've seen want the Horde and Alliance's good/evil dichotomy to stay - they want to play the villain faction against the Alliance's good, or vice-versa (in either direction).

[Rozz]

she recton the forsaken and pissed to official forums off so much that both alliance and horde players agree that she is bad.

I don't think she retconed anything, since the entire series got retcons with the release of the Chronicles. Her writing may line up with those or for the future books to come.

Plus I wouldn't use the forums -- which reflect a vocal and often extremely toxic minority of the community -- to make a general statement on how people see the book. In contrary to the many people you claim hate her (and on ppl on these forums) there are other lore fans who think the opposite. The forums are and will forever be: A shit show. And some shit shows are worse than others, but are still just full of shit.

[Traveler Voltin]

She didn't retcon the Forsaken at all, though. We all knew the Forsaken had free will and independent spirits from day one. They're not the literal slaves of Sylvanas - and many of them still embrace their essential humanity and/or nobler aspirations despite their undead state. They're not a monolith one way or the other.

Most of the people exceedingly upset that I've seen want the Horde and Alliance's good/evil dichotomy to stay - they want to play the villain faction against the Alliance's good, or vice-versa (in either direction).

the Sylvanas always wanted to attack stormwind is pure bullshit too.

- - - Updated - - -

I don't think she retconed anything, since the entire series got retcons with the release of the Chronicles. Her writing may line up with those or for the future books to come.

Plus I wouldn't use the forums -- which reflect a vocal and often extremely toxic minority of the community -- to make a general statement on how people see the book. In contrary to the many people you claim hate her (and on ppl on these forums) there are other lore fans who think the opposite. The forums are and will forever be: A shit show. And some shit shows are worse than others, but are still just full of shit.

i have seen more hatred towards her in the last 2 days than i have seen praise and its only going to get worse when more people read the book or forums.

[Aucald]

the Sylvanas always wanted to attack stormwind is pure bullshit too.

Sylvanas wants more Forsaken, and Stormwind is the last major population-center for Humans that could be turned into Forsaken. We don't really know if she's *always* wanted to attack Stormwind, but that objective makes a lot of sense for someone with her specific agenda of prolonging and extending the reach and power of the Forsaken (and thereby her own power).

[Traveler Voltin]

Sylvanas wants more Forsaken, and Stormwind is the last major population-center for Humans that could be turned into Forsaken. We don't really know if she's *always* wanted to attack Stormwind, but that objective makes a lot of sense for someone with her specific agenda of prolonging and extending the reach and power of the Forsaken (and thereby her own power).

Forsaken bodies are not moved by magic anymore. its what muscle you have on your limbs.
And suddenly items and books for the your past life are bad. if you have them, then you die.

she wants to survive. attack stormwind is not a way to survive. The Val'kyr is a way better idea.

[Aucald]

Forsaken bodies are not moved by magic anymore. its what muscle you have on your limbs.
And suddenly items and books for the your past life are bad. if you have them, then you die.

she wants to survive. attack stormwind is not a way to survive. The Val'kyr is a way better idea.

I don't think Forsaken were ever moved by magic - magic aids and enables them to compensate for missing elements like jaws, eyes, and what-have you, but it's not what moves them through space. That Sylvanas wishes the Forsaken to split from their Human lives and forbids a connection isn't surprising, either; she even thinks it is to their benefit to preserve them from the hurts she has suffered herself when trying to reconnect with her former life (e.g. Vereesa, and then Vereesa and Alleria, and even her romance with Nathanos).

Had she been able to secure Eyir then Stormwind probably wouldn't be on the table for her - but since Genn stopped her from doing that, he also inadvertently redirected her sights to the largest source of potential Forsaken left on Azeroth.

[dirtyjokes]

Based on the story we've experienced so far, I could see Blizzard creating something of an ambassador role for the player character in that the factions still exist, but the players can go to different cities based on all their accomplishments. This way, we still have AvH but the players can work towards the bigger goals and Blizzard could focus on questing without having to set up separate leveling zones in future expacks.
If they manage to pull off npc reactions based on quests completed (Stonetalon for example), I would be more than happy to go to SW on my Tauren warrior but then again, I don't really care about the faction conflict that much.

[omeomorfismo]

Forsaken bodies are not moved by magic anymore. its what muscle you have on your limbs.
And suddenly items and books for the your past life are bad. if you have them, then you die.

she wants to survive. attack stormwind is not a way to survive. The Val'kyr is a way better idea.

forsaken never were moved by magic, or better, the magic let their corpse to function, nothing more.
what you are describing are skeletons, they use magic as locomotion force

[SirCowdog]

Yes she is a serious writer and she works for blizzard not the other way round. You can dislike her all you like but the story is blizzard doing not a single persons. And really fanfic? Because zones like uldum were so well written clearly Warcraft has always been the highest tier of writting before golden got hired.

I’m not gonna pretend she has complete control and blizzard is being forced to change there story because of her.

To be fair, if she's really been hired to write at the level it appears she has been, her word and direction will carry a lot of weight. She might have to submit her ideas for approval to Ion or maybe someone else, but I imagine she has just as much authority to dictate direction as any other section lead.

So while it's true she works for Blizzard, lets not underestimate her authority or ability to write things more or less how she wants within some fairly loose directives. I don't personally agree with the hate she gets, but I also try very hard to look at the situation objectively. She was hired to write for WoW. That means she holds some, if not most, of the the responsibility for how things are getting written. This would seem to be supported by Before The Storm setting the stage for the rest of the expansion.

Granted, it could be the other way around. She could just be adapting existing lore dictates from Blizzard. But I'd guess she's given more of a free hand than that. Otherwise what's the point of hiring her and giving her access to so much info? Just hire some lower-end writer to pretty things up.

[Rozz]

I'll put my thoughts here:
>I find it interesting how youthful Calia is as a character. I understand she's supposed to be naive, but being ~40 and still raised a princess, she has a youthfulness that rivals Jaina in her 20s. Her model even looks a bit younger than Jaina's and if they didn't say how old she was/I didn't know her history, I would've assumed she was Anduin's age.
>Turalyon's love for the light seems concerning and I worry it will strain most if not all of his relationships.
>I really liked Genn's development in this book. I was never terribly fond of him, but I liked seeing him grow and even admit the more human traits of himself.
>Didn't enjoy the arranged marriage topic. It's a tired and unwelcomed plot point imo.
>Didn't expect Baine to give Anduin a chip of his horn. That was very...wow.
>I loved seeing how Sylvanas viewed the Horde members and how they viewed her. You can see the source of distrust and contempt on both sides, and how the Horde is riddled with subtle strife that's old, new, and somewhere in between. It's always great to see the Horde that exists behind the logo and face of the warchief.
>The Alliance still seems to suffer from a muted feeling whenever the leaders interact. Even if other races are displayed, they kinda roll over and under the humans/the most human-like race nearby. I guess the best way to put it is that the Alliance factions shine best in their own personal stories and never within the Alliance.
>I loved the ill-fated story of the gnome and goblin couple. It was humorous, sweet, and a pleasant surprise. Although it does raise the question if Azerite's innate qualities cause people to come together and understand one another better. Sure it can be used for tools/weaponry, but I wonder what effect it could have on individuals that settled around it (and didn't immediately use it for war/power). Kinda like kajamite and goblins, elves and their wells, what if Azerite could be another catalyst for a new way of life/species if left alone.
>Calia's family was a pleasant surprise if not a tragic one. Although I'm a bit confused one one thing. Did her family get caught on a scourge attack on South shore or the Forsaken's?
>Calia's stance on Lordaeron not belonging to her and to the Forsaken/her not claiming to be a member of the Alliance is striking and I feel very important. I don't think she's being set up to be an Alliance champion, but a new champion for the Forsaken themselves.
>All the attention the Forsaken make to being rotting piles, while Sylvanas, Nathanos, and her rangers are all pretty and prim does paint quite the picture. Even if they don't resent this/her, part of me feels it is important to note while Sylvanas cares for them, she does keep all the best pieces for herself/elves, treats the Forsaken like children, and is quick to steal joy from them if it helps her control them.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

To be fair, if she's really been hired to write at the level it appears she has been, her word and direction will carry a lot of weight. She might have to submit her ideas for approval to Ion or maybe someone else, but I imagine she has just as much authority to dictate direction as any other section lead.

So while it's true she works for Blizzard, lets not underestimate her authority or ability to write things more or less how she wants within some fairly loose directives. I don't personally agree with the hate she gets, but I also try very hard to look at the situation objectively. She was hired to write for WoW. That means she holds some, if not most, of the the responsibility for how things are getting written. This would seem to be supported by Before The Storm setting the stage for the rest of the expansion.

Granted, it could be the other way around. She could just be adapting existing lore dictates from Blizzard. But I'd guess she's given more of a free hand than that. Otherwise what's the point of hiring her and giving her access to so much info? Just hire some lower-end writer to pretty things up.

Blizzard has there lore planed our in advance though she doesn’t get to make it all up. They have key points they want to fit into the game and then Proabbly let golden fill out the inbetween. Not liking the way the story is going is one thing blaming all of that on one person is another.

[DeicideUH]

Graves for the characters that die in Before the Storm were added to the revamped Arathi in the Beta.

http://www.wowhead.com/news=284948/g...-beta-spoilers

[Rozz]

Graves for the characters that die in Before the Storm were added to the revamped Arathi in the Beta.

http://www.wowhead.com/news=284948/g...-beta-spoilers

The teddy bear was the most heart wrenching touch

[SirCowdog]

Blizzard has there lore planed our in advance though she doesn’t get to make it all up. They have key points they want to fit into the game and then Proabbly let golden fill out the inbetween. Not liking the way the story is going is one thing blaming all of that on one person is another.

I guess all I'm saying is that while it's probably true that Blizzard has a lot of their Lore planned in advance, now Christie Golden is part of that planning.

[Archpriest]

I just finished reading and I have to say that it's a really good book. Sitting here wishing it was ten times longer. The characters were well written and I truely enjoyed their interactions and the story was great. I paticular liked that it felt impactfull, yet contained enough that it won't feel like something is missing from the game.

I highly recommend it.

I rate it 67 out of 70 bananas

[Aurabolt]

Taelia.....

Taelia FORDRAGON is the daughter of BOLVAR Fordragon, the current LK. Also, it was already explained Taelia was secretly placed in the care of Kul Tiras sometime between the end of the Third War and Varian's disappearance. so Bolvar could focus on supporting Varian and later Anduin in Varian's absence. It's unknown how many people in Stormwind knew about Taelia but at the very least Varian might have known.

All that said, Calia's daughter is a different person entirely. In fact, her daughter and husband are presumed dead from the Forsaken's Plague attack post-Cata.

[Aucald]

I'll put my thoughts here:
>Turalyon's love for the light seems concerning and I worry it will strain most if not all of his relationships.

I did notice one of his asides to Anduin near the end of the book, about how the Light should guide them but not command them. I guess maybe he took the actions Xe'ra more seriously than it first appears in Legion.

>Calia's family was a pleasant surprise if not a tragic one. Although I'm a bit confused one one thing. Did her family get caught on a scourge attack on South shore or the Forsaken's?

Given her mention of the "blight" I believe she was there when the Forsaken re-took the the settlement from the Alliance. At least that was the impression I got.

>Calia's stance on Lordaeron not belonging to her and to the Forsaken/her not claiming to be a member of the Alliance is striking and I feel very important. I don't think she's being set up to be an Alliance champion, but a new champion for the Forsaken themselves.

Possible, but that's going to be a difficult proposition for her given that her most sympathetic supporters all died on the field at Arathi. Those members of the Desolate Council who returned to the Undercity would be against her, embittered by the rejection of their living relatives or friends as well as Sylvanas' manipulations.

>All the attention the Forsaken make to being rotting piles, while Sylvanas, Nathanos, and her rangers are all pretty and prim does paint quite the picture. Even if they don't resent this/her, part of me feels it is important to note while Sylvanas cares for them, she does keep all the best pieces for herself/elves, treats the Forsaken like children, and is quick to steal joy from them if it helps her control them.

That really stood out to me as well. It would be a powerful lever for a shrewd politician to wield against Sylvanas if there were to arise from within the ranks of the Forsaken people. Sylvanas is at pains to identify herself as one of the Forsaken to her people even when there's a pretty significant gulf between her plight and theirs, and it seems the Forsaken are aware of it even if they try not to dwell on it.

[Dellis0991]

Taelia FORDRAGON is the daughter of BOLVAR Fordragon, the current LK. Also, it was already explained Taelia was secretly placed in the care of Kul Tiras sometime between the end of the Third War and Varian's disappearance. so Bolvar could focus on supporting Varian and later Anduin in Varian's absence. It's unknown how many people in Stormwind knew about Taelia but at the very least Varian might have known.

All that said, Calia's daughter is a different person entirely. In fact, her daughter and husband are presumed dead from the Forsaken's Plague attack post-Cata.

So many secret love childs I got turned around....who knows who else had a love child, maybe Tyrande and illidan bumped uglies as well.

[Grythletubs]

My copy is coming in the mail tomorrow (I don't have a kindle like most cool people)!