frost dk re-work

[Nayami]

I don't think Frost Scythe will ever be baselines.

I felt there was a good chance that we'd get Fsc baseline after Legion, guess I was wrong.

[Cosmic Janitor]

Frost already has a spammable AoE that costs 1 rune. Yes Frostscythe is a fun talent, but it is in no way necessary for the spec to function well. It's perfectly positioned as a talent. Considering there is also a short AoE cooldown and two talent rows that improve AoE, you do not need base Frostscythe.

Spammable AoE? Do you mean HB which hits like a soft summer breeze without rime? Or RW, which is also not really that strong without all the talents that buff it, at least compared to scythe which does actual AoE dmg?

[Cosmic Janitor]

Yes, you have HB. With a Rime proc it hits decently. Yes you have RW. And you have two entire talent rows dedicated to AoE so it is assumed that if you do not have Frostscythe, you WILL have a different option to augment how your base toolset works. When a spec has two rows dedicated to AoE performance, it is clearly intended to work well in AoE with base skills + two talents. If you had Frost Scythe baseline, then Frost would need to drop that entire row, not get yet another AoE skill to work with (or more likely, Frost Scythe would be weaker and you'd need a passive talent to buff it for it to be great).

The issue is still that the other options, which aren't FSc, usually result in better ST performance, which always leads to having to chose between good AoE dps (FSc) or doing so-so AoE and better ST. In a raid enviroment that means you go through a couple of respec tomes (to prop up an otherwise useless profession) and in m+ you just try to guess which options gimps you less for the keystone. While we have 2 rows to chose from to get the most out of it, other classes just have strong baseline AoE. But it might be just me that finds a proc based AoE rotation and an overall weak semi-passive AoE every 20 not that satisfying.

[Deleted]

* Obliteration is mostly back to its live design, but it's now a passive, and triggered while Pillar of Frost is active. With Pillar of Frost being back baseline, we still want to avoid a setup where casing 3 self-buff cooldown consecutively was possible ( Pillar of Frost, Empower Rune Weapon, Obliteration, in any order). We're still iterating a bit on Obliteration's cost reduction mechanic - it has some slightly awkward effects on resources which we'd like to make feel better.

While we have 2 rows to chose from to get the most out of it, other classes just have strong baseline AoE

Don't think this is the case at all.

[Cosmic Janitor]

I think it works actually fine with ME, that way you are also way less likely to completely overcap on RP and end up with 6 runes as it often happens with the current one.

[Super Kami Dende]

Gathering storm and Frostscythe on different rows made me Kreygasm.

[cocomen2]

"Glacial advance" still without visual update , looks like one of uglyest spells - pixels from vanilla.

[Deleted]

Gathering storm and Frostscythe on different rows made me Kreygasm.

Agreed. This is awesome.

[Rhaxus]

I would rather have WW giving fall damage reduction... why do you guys keep crying about 2h? As long the spec is fun and doing a good dps, I really dont care about that.

this, either give path of frost the falldamage reduction back or make WW give falldamage immunity

[Kaver]

Spammable AoE? Do you mean HB which hits like a soft summer breeze without rime? Or RW, which is also not really that strong without all the talents that buff it, at least compared to scythe which does actual AoE dmg?

He is a Paladin (i looked at his posting areas) coming to the DK forum to troll. Anyone who thinks HB is a viable AOE spam doesnt play frost DK. True HB is good with rime, but then it is not spamable. I don’t know why people like him/her got the need to comment on a forum of a class they don’t play. It’s like me going to tell Gordon Ramsay how to cook french cuisine..

- - - Updated - - -

I would rather have WW giving fall damage reduction... why do you guys keep crying about 2h? As long the spec is fun and doing a good dps, I really dont care about that.

What annoys me about frost dks dual wielding is the fact that Blizzard are always excusing their bad class choices with “class fantasy” like for example to justify our low mobility. But they can’t use class fantasy as an arguement if they are not consistent about it. I would be okay with dual wielding if we also had good mobility. But they can’t create a fantasy about a slow juggernaut when we at the same time attack like we got a machine gun stuck up our arses... i mean, they can, but it doesnt make sense

[Cosmic Janitor]

The solution to our mobility is ice-skates, made of actual ice - obviously .

[Deleted]

The solution to our mobility is ice-skates, made of actual ice - obviously .

Path of Frost adding a small Movement Bonus would actually be nice. Since it also costs a rune you would try to time the use in combat. If that is problematic remove the Speedboost while you are hitting things.

[Deleted]

What annoys me about frost dks dual wielding is the fact that Blizzard are always excusing their bad class choices with “class fantasy” like for example to justify our low mobility. But they can’t use class fantasy as an arguement if they are not consistent about it. I would be okay with dual wielding if we also had good mobility. But they can’t create a fantasy about a slow juggernaut when we at the same time attack like we got a machine gun stuck up our arses... i mean, they can, but it doesnt make sense

Long may 2H remain dead. Not because I'm against playing 2H as Frost, but because of all the fucking annoying people creating so many threads on the same thing, filled with the same people, artificially making the want of 2H return looking far more legitimate than it actually is.

[Hoeth]

Well at least now if there are people who REALLY want to play 2h frost (I'd like it back too, but I'd settle for 1h weapons sheathing on the back) they can at least run with FSc, Cold Heart, GA and BoS when questing/solo play and still kill stuff.

So 2h isn't ENTIRELY dead, just dead for competitive content.

[Blk]

Due to everything being based on attack power now instead of weapon dps, it isn't a terrible request to make for two-handers to be an option. As long as two one handers give the same AP as one two-hander and the weapon dps averages out on white attacks it would be fine. The ONLY problem would be rune forges (2 vs 1). I don't particularly care about it, but if they were going to do it then now would be the time. WW just got the option to use two-handers again (bug or intended unknown) and there are plenty of survival hunters who would like the option to dual wield.

[Kaver]

Long may 2H remain dead. Not because I'm against playing 2H as Frost, but because of all the fucking annoying people creating so many threads on the same thing, filled with the same people, artificially making the want of 2H return looking far more legitimate than it actually is.

For me Blizzard just need to say it as it is.. If they want to keep dual wielding because it is easier and will require less work from their side, they should just say. Instead of disguising it with bad excuses.

[Kaver]

I am not at all trolling and I play all classes. I did not say HB is viable by itself, I said that the Frost DK set of abilities is viable whether you pick Frostscythe or not and mentioned that you have spammable abilities to use so you can actually feel engaged in an AoE rotation. Frost has two rows of AoE talents, it doesn't need things from the becoming baseline just because you don't want to switch around talents when it makes sense. If you got Frostscythe as basic, you'd have to give up the entire row, or the base frost AoE would have to be tuned lower to make up for the change.

I apologize then. Too fast on the trigger sometimes.

What the original guy ment about "spammable AOE ability" was to have something on demand that doesn't require RNG. Frostscythe is the only ability we have right now that gives us AOE on demand. For example, when the adds spawn on Antoran High Command and you don't have Frostscythe, you need to pray for RNG with rime procs. If you're not getting any rime procs, you have no AOE at all.

The problem with our current AOE rows is that they also affect single target damage, so when we choose Frostscythe as a talent our single target damage is considerably reduced. This is not a problem with many other classes because they have their "AOE on demand button" as baseline.

Windwalker monks for example, can have great AOE on demand and single target damage at the same time. Paladins talent choices will of course also affect the AOE damage output, BUT they will always be able to do AOE with no RNG involved no matter what talents they pick.

So to boil it down we have two major problems:

1) Our AOE is large based on RNG if we don't take frostscythe and we cant do it on demand.
2) Our single target damage is largely reduced if we take frostscythe.

[Justpassing]

WW just got 2h option back btw... sooo...

[Kendros]

For me Blizzard just need to say it as it is.. If they want to keep dual wielding because it is easier and will require less work from their side, they should just say. Instead of disguising it with bad excuses.

Thats precisely why they are not allowing multiple kind of weapons on classes, to balance them both was a nigtmare and one always ended up underperforming, blizz already said that.People that keep saying they liked 2hand frost never did serious content and were most casuals. Also adding 2h back would require a complete revamp on talents so thats not hapenning.

[Kaver]

Thats precisely why they are not allowing multiple kind of weapons on classes, to balance them both was a nigtmare and one always ended up underperforming, blizz already said that.People that keep saying they liked 2hand frost never did serious content and were most casuals. Also adding 2h back would require a complete revamp on talents so thats not hapenning.

And that's fair if they don't want to do the extra work I guess..

But then they should stop talking about "Frost DK class fantasy" because if they keep dual wielding they are obviously not following it.. and their arguements about our low mobility are then invalid.

They need to stop being such hypocrites..