Battle for Azeroth Alpha/Beta General Discussion

[Arbs]

I think it was more the developers didn't have a handle on how they wanted the gameplay to work.

Having to press Shield Block every six seconds or risk exploding? Not fun, engaging or challenging.
Spirit on gear for classes that could only use it for health regen? Strange.
Shield Wall on a shared thirty-minute cooldown with Retaliation and Recklessness? Insane.

Even if the numbers had been terrible, today's class design would have wrecked vanilla's content.

Every much indeed.

[SirBeef]

I'm looking forward to vanilla servers for 2 big reasons: there are quest chains I miss doing, and thhe complaining from people who didn't realize they had to tank as warrior, or be holy priests etc to raid.

Warrior to tank, yes, but you could raid as Shadow, and many did.

[Pigglix]

I'll laugh my asss off if classic cmes with a lfg tool because nobody wants to spend hours on sw/org hoping to find a group for dungeon

[TheFirstOnes]

What was hard? As I recall, nothing was hard, just tedious and long.

Dying to more than 1 Mob. Not being able to attune to Raids due to difficulty. PVP. Not enough abilities on certain specs...

[Doomchicken]

Dying to more than 1 Mob. Not being able to attune to Raids due to difficulty. PVP. Not enough abilities on certain specs...

Raids were hard to attune to? Since when? >.>

[SirBeef]

Because you white knighters claimed that the removal of tier sets was going to make way for more unique armour models coming from different sources like ISLAND EXPEDITIONS.

To be fair, you have only seen 4 green items in terms of gear. We have no idea if there any other rewards/currency to buy rewards outside of what was datamined the other day. We also know how datamining and jumping to conclusions works on this forum.

[Onikaroshi]

Warrior to tank, yes, but you could raid as Shadow, and many did.

We also had nontank warriors, but no non warrior tanks, and a feral druid dps.

Did let a pally tank trash once though lol (and bears were amazing tanks for a boss in zg)

[Friendlyimmolation]

Dying to more than 1 Mob. Not being able to attune to Raids due to difficulty. PVP. Not enough abilities on certain specs...

None of that was difficult, it was just tedious.

[Plehnard]

Oh, absolutely! WoW took everything that Everquest, Ultima Online, and all the proto MMOs that came before them had done and did it all bigger and better and in a more polished manner than ever before. And it did it all with just enough of a sense of humor and a sense of continuity from the WC franchise's biggest hit to make it feel important, where most other MMOs had to start their world building from scratch.

WoW was an absolute TRIUMPH in the Vanilla era. And it encouraged long lasting friendships and cooperative adversarial gameplay in an environment of cartoonish fun that brought whole families into the game world en masse. It was a great game, for what it was.

And I don't think there's many people who could earnestly argue otherwise.

Except PvP, they should've copied "The dark Age of Camelot" there. DaoC is still the best fantasy MMO for big PvP battles and castle sieges.

[Lahis]

He actually said something interesting: this is the first war without big bad guy. Not that this is first faction war ever...

Oh is that so?



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For the record: There are only 12 graves in the Arathi Highlands. There were 22 members of the Desolate Council on the field.

10 survived. Almost half the Desolate Council were turned away by their loved ones, and returned to Sylvanas before the massacre began.

...also the Massacre was much -much- smaller than I think any of us had previously interpreted.

Or they just didn't want to cover half of the zone with hundred graves.

[Steampunkette]

Oh is that so?



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Or they just didn't want to cover half of the zone with hundred graves.

The book states that there are 22. Only 22 Desolate Council members, which 25 Bat Riding Priests are sent to protect, since the Alliance is sending up to 5 humans -per- Desolate Council member, plus their guards and accompaniment.

So... 12 people get killed on the field. 10 retreat before the horn is blown and Calia is revealed.

Have you read the book, yet, Lahis?

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Except PvP, they should've copied "The dark Age of Camelot" there. DaoC is still the best fantasy MMO for big PvP battles and castle sieges.

Oh. And Player Housing. They don't have it at all. But pretty much everything else they polished so brightly!

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To be clear on the count: From the book, there's only 22 Forsaken on the field, with 25 Bat-Riding Priests. 19 humans came out of the 110 Anduin and Calia tried to meet with. About Half refused to come. Of the remaining 55, Anduin had to screen out the ones that were probably going to commit violence. Less than 1/5th of the original count was willing to meet.

Disheartening.

[TheFirstOnes]

None of that was difficult, it was just tedious.

No. It was hard. It only really got tedious once you got past the level 35 mark. However, Tedious doesn't mean easier. It was still pretty hard to go through. At level 60, you couldn't PVP without being a Rogue, a good Warrior, a Ret/Holy Paladin (AKA, a Healer/Buffer), or a Mage/Shaman. You also couldn't PVP if your gear was fucking pathetic. Raids were hard due to the lack of knowledge people had, while having a crappy ass scale within the bosses. Some of them ranged from difficult, to broken. Others you couldn't even get to, due to over tuned adds.

There was also a TON of social communication involved. Hours upon weeks were wasted to complete a Raid. And some days, people couldn't even raid without having the right gear on. Not to mention the attunements (Which were hard, as a LOT of people struggled to get through it. Though, it did have its tedious moments as well), buffs, enchants, resistances, and more.

Also, as a Hunter, you couldn't really do anything without Ammo. However, you did have a melee weapon to aid you in some cases. And Warrior's did wield a gun...rarely.

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Oh, and must I mention the grind to Grand Marshal/High Warlord?! Barely anyone got close...

That's not JUST due to its tediousness, but also due to how hard it was to get to it.

[Courierrawr]

The only "hard" part about vanilla was the fact that nobody knew what the fuck they were doing, the vast majority of the playerbase were kids that had never played an MMO before.

If you took any modern raiding group and unleashed them on classic WoW they'd steamroll all the content in a matter of weeks. People are going to be in for a rude awakening when Classic launches.

[Friendlyimmolation]

No. It was hard. It only really got tedious once you got past the level 35 mark. However, Tedious doesn't mean easier. It was still pretty hard to go through. At level 60, you couldn't PVP without being a Rogue, a good Warrior, a Ret/Holy Paladin (AKA, a Healer/Buffer), or a Mage/Shaman. You also couldn't PVP if your gear was fucking pathetic. Raids were hard due to the lack of knowledge people had, while having a crappy ass scale within the bosses. Some of them ranged from difficult, to broken. Others you couldn't even get to, due to over tuned adds.

There was also a TON of social communication involved. Hours upon weeks were wasted to complete a Raid. And some days, people couldn't even raid without having the right gear on. Not to mention the attunements (Which were hard, as a LOT of people struggled to get through it. Though, it did have its tedious moments as well), buffs, enchants, resistances, and more.

Also, as a Hunter, you couldn't really do anything without Ammo. However, you did have a melee weapon to aid you in some cases. And Warrior's did wield a gun...rarely.

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Oh, and must I mention the grind to Grand Marshal/High Warlord?! Barely anyone got close...

That's not JUST due to its tediousness, but also due to how hard it was to get to it.

Again, you confuse what is hard and what takes grinding to get. Just because you were dumb and played awfully because you were a child didn’t mean the game was hard. The only actual hard part of vanilla was managing 39 other raiders.

Time consuming =/= hard.

And now that everyone knows what they are doing, people will steamroll through vanilla WoW

[Courierrawr]

Oh, and must I mention the grind to Grand Marshal/High Warlord?! Barely anyone got close...

That's not JUST due to its tediousness, but also due to how hard it was to get to it.

If by hard you mean playing 16 hours of PVP every day then sure.

[Doomchicken]

No. It was hard. It only really got tedious once you got past the level 35 mark. However, Tedious doesn't mean easier. It was still pretty hard to go through. At level 60, you couldn't PVP without being a Rogue, a good Warrior, a Ret/Holy Paladin (AKA, a Healer/Buffer), or a Mage/Shaman. You also couldn't PVP if your gear was fucking pathetic. Raids were hard due to the lack of knowledge people had, while having a crappy ass scale within the bosses. Some of them ranged from difficult, to broken. Others you couldn't even get to, due to over tuned adds.

There was also a TON of social communication involved. Hours upon weeks were wasted to complete a Raid. And some days, people couldn't even raid without having the right gear on. Not to mention the attunements (Which were hard, as a LOT of people struggled to get through it. Though, it did have its tedious moments as well), buffs, enchants, resistances, and more.

Also, as a Hunter, you couldn't really do anything without Ammo. However, you did have a melee weapon to aid you in some cases. And Warrior's did wield a gun...rarely.

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Oh, and must I mention the grind to Grand Marshal/High Warlord?! Barely anyone got close...

That's not JUST due to its tediousness, but also due to how hard it was to get to it.

There is something called "fake difficulty". You can find good examples of this on tvtropes. Basically TL;DR version is fake difficulty is difficulty created basically by sheer incompetence. Poor balancing, poor implementation, poor planning, so on so forth. Vanilla had a lot of fake difficulty.

[George Costanza]

Man horde has gotten so raped by Christie golden.

[Usagi Senshi]

If by hard you mean playing 16 hours of PVP every day then sure.

Indeed, my cousin and I were taking turns trying to get his account to HWL and we would each spend 6-7 hours a day for two months taking turns due to work shifts. In the end, we got blackballed by the asshole gatekeeping groups that were slowing down people that didn't play by their shitty rules. That type of shit should have been nipped in the bud early by Blizzard tbh.

[TheFirstOnes]

There is something called "fake difficulty". You can find good examples of this on tvtropes. Basically TL;DR version is fake difficulty is difficulty created basically by sheer incompetence. Poor balancing, poor implementation, poor planning, so on so forth. Vanilla had a lot of fake difficulty.

Fake Difficulty's still a difficulty, even if it's based out of sheer incompetence/ignorance.

[boyzma]

No. It was hard. It only really got tedious once you got past the level 35 mark. However, Tedious doesn't mean easier. It was still pretty hard to go through. At level 60, you couldn't PVP without being a Rogue, a good Warrior, a Ret/Holy Paladin (AKA, a Healer/Buffer), or a Mage/Shaman. You also couldn't PVP if your gear was fucking pathetic. Raids were hard due to the lack of knowledge people had, while having a crappy ass scale within the bosses. Some of them ranged from difficult, to broken. Others you couldn't even get to, due to over tuned adds.

There was also a TON of social communication involved. Hours upon weeks were wasted to complete a Raid. And some days, people couldn't even raid without having the right gear on. Not to mention the attunements (Which were hard, as a LOT of people struggled to get through it. Though, it did have its tedious moments as well), buffs, enchants, resistances, and more.

Also, as a Hunter, you couldn't really do anything without Ammo. However, you did have a melee weapon to aid you in some cases. And Warrior's did wield a gun...rarely.

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Oh, and must I mention the grind to Grand Marshal/High Warlord?! Barely anyone got close...

That's not JUST due to its tediousness, but also due to how hard it was to get to it.

On our server, unless you were one of the "cool kids" "part of the Click" whatever you want to call it....you never saw High Warlord. They had it set up...whoever "they" wanted to get the title...got it...you could fight your ass off and if "they" didn't care for you, you were shit out of luck. Sucks, but hey...not much you could do about it.

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Indeed, my cousin and I were taking turns trying to get his account to HWL and we would each spend 6-7 hours a day for two months taking turns due to work shifts. In the end, we got blackballed by the asshole gatekeeping groups that were slowing down people that didn't play by their shitty rules. That type of shit should have been nipped in the bud early by Blizzard tbh.

Totally agree. Thank you for explaining it such elegant words