Proposal to Split California

[johnhoftb]

Yeah, the police, the fire departments, the public roads, the parks, the schools, who needs that crap? We can just ditch them along with stuff like food stamps, medicare, medicaid, don't need them either. Then when the crime spikes due to all the desperate people trying to eat and survive, we can just call it all fake news or blame them for being poor and ignore how the economy works to keep the delusion going.

Just remember, a few years ago a guy out in rural Tennessee had his house burnt down while firefighters just watched because the guy didn't want to pay for service.

http://www.nbcnews.com/id/39516346/n...let-home-burn/

[Wyrt]

Sooo time to scrap the electoral college? I mean, this is ultimately what people are worried about, right?

Or do we want people in Wyoming to have five times as much voting power as those in large states simply because they live in the middle of nowhere?

They have a lot of voting power, but Wyoming is ultimately just as irrelevant in elections as California or Texas are.

It's Ohio and Florida who are deciding elections and have massive amounts of political power.

[johnhoftb]

Sooo time to scrap the electoral college? I mean, this is ultimately what people are worried about, right?

Or do we want people in Wyoming to have five times as much voting power as those in large states simply because they live in the middle of nowhere?

I'm personally fine with the EC, but it needs to be tempered with a popular vote alongside it. There also needs to be a third thing so Congress doesn't get free reign when someone splits the EC and popular vote in this type of voting, only when the 3 votes are split completely (which would be rare). Not sure what other measure would work though.

[Fugus]

Just remember, a few years ago a guy out in rural Tennessee had his house burnt down while firefighters just watched because the guy didn't want to pay for service.

http://www.nbcnews.com/id/39516346/n...let-home-burn/

Messed up stuff right there, but that is what unrestrained capitalism looks like, that is actually a more tame example of what it looks like, which is why critical stuff can never be left to a free market as it can not operate within such conditions without huge regulations.

[Deletedaccount1]

I'm fine with this. People have the right to self-governance and California is far too large for that to exist. It's bigger than most countries. Although, it seems similar to Brexit where the actual difficulty of the process makes it a tiring undertaking.

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That is kinda par the course for the US isn't it?

The red states rail about liberals spending other peoples money while they don't even have a functioning government without spending other peoples money because they don't know how taxes or government works.

Florida does not have an income tax and is frequently ranked as one of the best financially managed states. According to this article's methodology it is actually middle-of-the-road compared to a map made by the Cato Institute but there is not much correlation between a state's politics and its finances.

[Fugus]

I'm personally fine with the EC, but it needs to be tempered with a popular vote alongside it. There also needs to be a third thing so Congress doesn't get free reign when someone splits the EC and popular vote in this type of voting, only when the 3 votes are split completely (which would be rare). Not sure what other measure would work though.

Since it would take an amendment to remove the electoral college (Which honestly needs to happen) it probably won't happen for a long time. Just having it mandate that the electoral votes in each state must be apportioned according to the popular vote rounded to the nearest voter would help mountains.

No more of this winning with 52% of the vote gives them 100% of the delegates so the other 48% of the state just got disenfranchised when it came to choosing the president.

Would also move to a ranked voting method where independents can run and be viable and there is no such thing as a spoiler vote.

[misterpuk]

Disagree. If anything, the EC model should be expanded upon. Metopolitan and rual lifestyles are staunchly different. Why should those living in a relatively small urban setting dictate the rules and policies for those living in what is essentially a completely different culture hundreds or thousands of miles away?

I would love to see the EC model enacted for state governers, myself. Electors would just represent counties/parishes instead.

[Fugus]

Florida does not have an income tax and is frequently ranked as one of the best financially managed states.

From what I have read, they have a budget problem and are having a deficit where they have to rely on other states to fund their stuff.

[Rasulis]

Sure. With less density comes less of those problems. Therefore needing less of those services. Crime rates are usually lower in rural areas.

Your scenario is just world-is-ending paranoia.

Many of the northeastern counties, such as Modoc, don't have large enough tax base to even maintain the road, or keep the road open during winter, or pay for teachers & schools, or maintain a medical facility without subsidy from the State.

[Milchshake]

Many of the northeastern counties, such as Modoc, don't have large enough tax base to even maintain the road, or keep the road open during winter, or pay for teachers & schools, or maintain a medical facility without subsidy from the State.

So true. Spending a lot of time in the Eastern Sierra counties like Mono and Inyo. The largest single employer is Caltrans. So not only would rural counties lose infrastructure, they would lose employment.

Or a place like Susanville, the biggest employer are the state prisons.
It's a beautiful place to visit for hunting and fishing. But the barroom conversations get cringey as fuck.

[Gestopft]

I would love to see the EC model enacted for state governers, myself. Electors would just represent counties/parishes instead.

So....fuck urban people?

[Slybak]

Not only should California be split up, it should be split up into eleven new states instead of three. Creating the states of:
- Francisco
- Riverside
- Santa Clara
- Sacramento
- Fresno
- Alameda
- North Angeles
- South Angeles
- East Angeles
- West Angeles
- Greater Modoc-Orange

This is how this works, right?

[s_bushido]

Why should those living in a relatively small urban setting dictate the rules and policies for those living in what is essentially a completely different culture hundreds or thousands of miles away?

Because it's a national election. And the evil libruls living in their big cities are part of the same nation as someone living in the middle of rural nowhere.

[Wyrt]

Also one really major issue with this plan is that Northern California has all the water. Who's going to be responsible for all the infrastructure for transporting the water down south? And do we get to charge for the water now since it's an export?

It's probably the dumbass farmers in the south that support this the most too. "Sacramento won't tell us we can't use a ton of water in a drought!" while ignoring that Sacramento would still be in control of the water. This is like when they voted for Trump because they thought Trump would make it rain and instead they don't have enough workers. Geniuses.

You know, maybe this isn't such a bad idea. North California and California can stay as 1 state. South California can fuck off to do its own thing. Oh, and we're keeping San Diego.

[Deleted]

A Spanish part, a Liberal part and everyone else in the remaining part?

[Enthusiastic Steward]

Am I doing this right? Playing stupid as this proposal and thread is?

Where is the line and what are the criteria for whether or not a thread in MMO-C's off-topic political sub-forum is stupid, so I know for next time.

[ipaq]

Republicans would likely be against this, since it would give the Democrats more seats. Same reason they are against DC and Puerto Rico becoming full states.

Nah the way the republicans are pushing that agenda and the map they describe will mean that the majority democrats will end up in 1 state worth 1 EV, and 2 states (majority republican) worth 54 votes.

Enjoy that latest gerrymandering.

[Elegiac]

Disagree. If anything, the EC model should be expanded upon. Metopolitan and rual lifestyles are staunchly different. Why should those living in a relatively small urban setting dictate the rules and policies for those living in what is essentially a completely different culture hundreds or thousands of miles away?

Because those "small urban centers" happen to contain the majority of the population.

Why should people in practically barren rural areas have more voting power per person than everyone else?

[Dontrike]

A Spanish part, a Liberal part and everyone else in the remaining part?

Who is "everyone else"?

[s_bushido]

Who is "everyone else"?

My guess would be Real Americans.