frost dk re-work

[Hoeth]

WW just got 2h option back btw... sooo...

Still seems to be some confusion as to whether FoF requires a 1h or not and I doubt 2h will end up working for WW, but if Blizzard allows WW to effectively chose between weapon types but doesn't allow the same for frost I'd be pretty damn angry.

[Deleted]

Being slow-moving'll be fine, if Frost has consistent mitigation.

If it'd be reworked, self-healing wouldn't be so in-theme, and could be more of Unholy's thing, while Frost have well-timed absorb shields or reduced damage taken, maybe even some immunity if talenting into it. Still too squishy for a tank spec, but when need arises, you can harden and endure the hits more often than other DPS do.

It'll add that nice playstyle variety, where moving out of harm's way isn't much of an option if a DK, but you can wisely allocate resources or cooldowns to endure the damage.

Frost/Unholy should be most go-to specs if the boss fight involves lots of damage soaking, since they're not mobile, but would have active mitigation and limited tank cooldowns.

[Kendros]

And that's fair if they don't want to do the extra work I guess..

But then they should stop talking about "Frost DK class fantasy" because if they keep dual wielding they are obviously not following it.. and their arguements about our low mobility are then invalid.

They need to stop being such hypocrites..

Its their game the class fantasy is whatever they say it is. And im sure you wouldnt be saying "that's fair if they don't want to do the extra work I guess.." if were you that had to balance 36 specs with a bunch of ppl bitching at you about class balance.

[Nemesquish]

Its their game the class fantasy is whatever they say it is. And im sure you wouldnt be saying "that's fair if they don't want to do the extra work I guess.." if were you that had to balance 36 specs with a bunch of ppl bitching at you about class balance.

Its not like its one person doing it, or that its a small group of people, They could employee 1000 people just for class balance if they wanted to get it right, and they actually use less and less people every expansion

[Kendros]

Its not like its one person doing it, or that its a small group of people, They could employee 1000 people just for class balance if they wanted to get it right, and they actually use less and less people every expansion

Thats now how an enterprise works, they have a budget, they have guidelines to follow, the class design probably have limited resources, they have someone that call the shots to allow them to do or dont do something, they have to have profit, they have goals to achiev so they can grow without blowing all the resources they have. Its not like "just employ as many ppl and use as many resources needed to fulfill that one person wish".

[Kaver]

Its their game the class fantasy is whatever they say it is. And im sure you wouldnt be saying "that's fair if they don't want to do the extra work I guess.." if were you that had to balance 36 specs with a bunch of ppl bitching at you about class balance.

This is another issue. Most people propose for them to exchange dual wielding with 2H so it would not give an extra spec to balance.

You’re right that it is Blizzards game, but we are the customers who finance the developement of this game and as customers I think it is not only fair but also important to be critical when the product we pay for lack quality.

In the end they will as you say decide the class fantasy, but it should still make sense in relation to what they are communicating. If they tell us the customers, that a frost death knight should be this slow jauggernaut it make sense because it is basicly a frozen knight but then it doesnt make sense to have this crazy high attack speed. The content lacks quality. And it is okay to care about quality.

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Thats now how an enterprise works, they have a budget, they have guidelines to follow, the class design probably have limited resources, they have someone that call the shots to allow them to do or dont do something, they have to have profit, they have goals to achiev so they can grow without blowing all the resources they have. Its not like "just employ as many ppl and use as many resources needed to fulfill that one person wish".

You describe Blizzard as if it is this small upcoming company with very limited ressources. If we dont speak up when the quality lack they will just use less and less ressources because they can. Blizzard could easily hire another 1000 people without coming close to “blowing their ressources”. Blizzard did approximately 7.000.000.000 $ in revenue last year and even though it is not only from WoW I still think they could up the quality a little.

[hellhamster]

Now all we need are some new abilities and I'm sold.

[Deleted]

If they tell us the customers, that a frost death knight should be this slow jauggernaut it make sense because it is basicly a frozen knight but then it doesnt make sense to have this crazy high attack speed.

Slow moving has always been related to mobility in terms of movement. Stretching that to include attack speed is something you are doing, then calling them out in not adhering to correct class fantasy. I call you out on bullshit. There is no lack of quality here, quite the opposite - the latest round of changes to Frost are fantastic and now that artifacts are gone, the new expansion has been announced and draws closer, and still there is absolutely no sign of 2H Frost making an appearance, those of you who can't let go of something that died a long time ago should let it go, at least until the announcing of the next expansion.

Spare the rest of us (who certainly outnumber you) the pain of reading your shite for another two years.

[Cosmic Janitor]

Slow moving has always been related to mobility in terms of movement. Stretching that to include attack speed is something you are doing, then calling them out in not adhering to correct class fantasy.

You are grasping at straws.. like, is your class fantasy to have some kind of muscle atrophy in your legs and some super high dexterity and highspeed upper body movement, in full-plate no less? Sure buddy.

Feel yourself called out on your bullshit. And now keep your whinging about these things to the other thread about two handed frost.

[Nayami]

You are grasping at straws.. like, is your class fantasy to have some kind of muscle atrophy in your legs and some super high dexterity and highspeed upper body movement, in full-plate no less?

When you keep on skipping leg day

[Kendros]

This is another issue. Most people propose for them to exchange dual wielding with 2H so it would not give an extra spec to balance.

You’re right that it is Blizzards game, but we are the customers who finance the developement of this game and as customers I think it is not only fair but also important to be critical when the product we pay for lack quality.

In the end they will as you say decide the class fantasy, but it should still make sense in relation to what they are communicating. If they tell us the customers, that a frost death knight should be this slow jauggernaut it make sense because it is basicly a frozen knight but then it doesnt make sense to have this crazy high attack speed. The content lacks quality. And it is okay to care about quality.

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You describe Blizzard as if it is this small upcoming company with very limited ressources. If we dont speak up when the quality lack they will just use less and less ressources because they can. Blizzard could easily hire another 1000 people without coming close to “blowing their ressources”. Blizzard did approximately 7.000.000.000 $ in revenue last year and even though it is not only from WoW I still think they could up the quality a little.

Any enterprise works the same doenst matter how big it is, they have a bigger budget sure, they could hire more ppl with that budget, sure, but saying just to hire as many ppl as possible just for one sector thats working fine is just nonsense, no enterprise wants to spend money unnecessarily.

Also your paying fee only gives you the right to play their game, not to demand anything. You can expect quality for what youre paying, sure, maybe leave your opinion about something you dont agree with about the game, but if youre not happy with what is being delivered you can always unsub. Thats how economic system works.

[Kaver]

Any enterprise works the same doenst matter how big it is, they have a bigger budget sure, they could hire more ppl with that budget, sure, but saying just to hire as many ppl as possible just for one sector thats working fine is just nonsense.

But that doesn't mean we can't speak up if they are delivering a bad product. It also has a lot to say what industry the enterprise is in. As I mentioned before, the player base of WoW are financing the developement of the game, so I only think it is fair we have something to say about the quality we get for our money. If we start just accepting them doing us wrong it will only escalate and get worse and worse. Look at Microsoft products before Apple really came into the market. They were starting to get sooooo bad because there really was no alternative but when Apple really came into the game with the newer mac books and iphones, then Microsoft suddenly started to up their products.

We need to be vocal even though Blizzard says no, or else we will never achieve anything.

[Kendros]

You are grasping at straws.. like, is your class fantasy to have some kind of muscle atrophy in your legs and some super high dexterity and highspeed upper body movement, in full-plate no less? Sure buddy.

Feel yourself called out on your bullshit. And now keep your whinging about these things to the other thread about two handed frost.

Its the dual wielding spec, if you think about it using 2 small swords would make you hit faster, which in the whole context is total bullshit as you say, because uh hits just as fast with a 2h. Why, you ask? Because its a fucking game. Also by your logic warriors shouldnt be leaping thru the air in full plate.

[Kaver]

Because its a fucking game.

If this is how you feel, I don't know why you're wasting your time on a forum writing about it...

I don't enjoy spending time on this forum, but I really want 2H so I do it. But if I had no goal I would just stay away and enjoy my time with something else.

[Kendros]

But that doesn't mean we can't speak up if they are delivering a bad product. It also has a lot to say what industry the enterprise is in. As I mentioned before, the player base of WoW are financing the developement of the game, so I only think it is fair we have something to say about the quality we get for our money. If we start just accepting them doing us wrong it will only escalate and get worse and worse. Look at Microsoft products before Apple really came into the market. They were starting to get sooooo bad because there really was no alternative but when Apple really came into the game with the newer mac books and iphones, then Microsoft suddenly started to up their products.

We need to be vocal even though Blizzard says no, or else we will never achieve anything.

As i said if you think its a bad product you dont have to buy it, ppl may disagree with you and think they are delivering and buy it, or most ppl can agree with you and dont buy it, then theyre not gonna have any profit or less profit then they were expecting, forcing them to improve the next time.
And we are not financing anything, their profits finance that, we are just buying the rights to play the game when it comes out.

[Kaver]

As i said if you think its a bad product you dont have to buy it, ppl may disagree with you and think they are delivering and buy it, or most ppl can agree with you and dont buy it, then theyre not gonna have any profit or less profit then they were expecting, forcing them to improve the next time.
And we are not financing anything we are just buying the rights to play the game when it comes out.

No I'm paying a subscription every month which is going to the development of more content. I'm in my right to complain about a product I buy. Also Blizzard are asking for feedback. My feedback is: "Most people want 2H frost over dual wielding frost... can you please change it".

I don't know what your goal here is. Why are you telling us we are not allowed to complain over a product we buy and why do you care?

[Kendros]

No I'm paying a subscription every month which is going to the development of more content. I'm in my right to complain about a product I buy. Also Blizzard are asking for feedback. My feedback is: "Most people want 2H frost over dual wielding frost... can you please change it".

I don't know what your goal here is. Why are you telling us we are not allowed to complain over a product we buy and why do you care?

I already said that your subscription only allows you to play their game not demand anything from them. Its like going on a restaurant and demand being called by the waiter your majesty, and demand that they make you something thats not on the menu, you can ask for it they are not obligated to do it just because you are paying for it. Its expected that they deliver a good service and good manners to you, but nothing further than that, if you dont like what its being delivered you give them a bad reviewn and dont come back.

You can complain as much as you want its yout life and time, but dont be disapointed when they dont give a fuck for not paying any attention to you.

Also thats more like you opinion than actual feedback, "i liked 2hand better, change it back". And its pretty stated that 2 hand is not coming back.
A real feedback would be X talent does not interact well with Y ability, change it.

[Deleted]

You are grasping at straws.. like, is your class fantasy to have some kind of muscle atrophy in your legs and some super high dexterity and highspeed upper body movement, in full-plate no less? Sure buddy.

Feel yourself called out on your bullshit. And now keep your whinging about these things to the other thread about two handed frost.

Step 1: Has Blizzard talked about Frost as a slow moving juggernaut? Yes, check.

Step 2: Has Blizzard said Frost is a slow attack-speed being. No.

Step 3: Prepare forearm for spectacular grasp at straws.

[RuneDK]

No I'm paying a subscription every month which is going to the development of more content. I'm in my right to complain about a product I buy. Also Blizzard are asking for feedback. My feedback is: "Most people want 2H frost over dual wielding frost... can you please change it".

I don't know what your goal here is. Why are you telling us we are not allowed to complain over a product we buy and why do you care?

Just cause you're paying for it doesn't mean Blizzard needs to change it...You don't own your characters, Blizzard does...You pay them for the right to use their servers and the characters on their servers. You can complain, but that doesn't mean anything will change....End of the day it's Blizzards game and they will do what they want.

[Kaver]

Just cause you're paying for it doesn't mean Blizzard needs to change it...You don't own your characters, Blizzard does...You pay them for the right to use their servers and the characters on their servers. You can complain, but that doesn't mean anything will change....End of the day it's Blizzards game and they will do what they want.

Why are you telling me this? I never said I had the right to demand anything. I said it was fair for us to complain. I don’t understand the incentive behind your comment...

And again.. Blizzard are asking for feedback, so I don’t even know why we are discussing this.