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  1. #41
    I can't say that I mind this change. The min/maxing gets tiresome having 7 different gear sets to cycle through.

  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Jester Joe View Post
    I don't think "Blizzard chose to do so" is a great way to prove something honestly. It's one thing when it comes to statistics we don't have access to, like participation and what not, but it's another when it comes to what feels better and what's fun. That's why they ask for feedback after all.
    Don't think I've ever heard anyone say "man, i love swapping trinkets in M+, it's so much fun". Never read anything along those lines until this thread, either. You're much more likely to hear "man, i wish i didn't roll SPriest, I can't get into anything higher than +20 without...
    Quote Originally Posted by theboycooper View Post
    a high haste crit set for single target to not be completly garbage and another lower haste higher mastery for aoe and trash.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jester Joe View Post
    You're being a bit too idealistic if you think this is going to make blizzard balance things.
    That's the beauty of the change. There's less need to balance now that groups can be made up of specs that bring different strengths rather than just whichever specs can pump out the most AoE without sacrificing ST.

  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by Accendor View Post
    Actually, you can. Only your weapon and almost nobody ever does ist, but in theory you could ;-)
    Only if it breaks. Vanilla and WoD hunters know this all too well.
    "Privilege is invisible to those who have it."

  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by Accendor View Post
    Actually, you can. Only your weapon and almost nobody ever does ist, but in theory you could ;-)
    In an expansion of Artifacts, I understand why nobody ever does it.

    It might make a comeback in BFA, though.

  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by Kasharan View Post
    I know I'm not alone here, there have been quite a few posts by people who are competing in the MDI that have shared similar concerns in other forums. Please Blizzard don't dumb down the game any further.
    Great argument. It makes pushing higher keys more difficult when you lose a layer of improvisation on the fly. I.e. "We keep dying to this boss. DPS isn't an issue, so we could kill it slower with more tanky gear but since we can't swap out, now the whole key is wasted as we can't kill it all". I guess Blizzard need to respond to this sort of criticism with proposed changes to M+ as a whole.

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Jyggalag View Post
    Don't think I've ever heard anyone say "man, i love swapping trinkets in M+, it's so much fun". Never read anything along those lines until this thread, either. You're much more likely to hear "man, i wish i didn't roll SPriest, I can't get into anything higher than +20 without...
    That's the beauty of the change. There's less need to balance now that groups can be made up of specs that bring different strengths rather than just whichever specs can pump out the most AoE without sacrificing ST.
    I haven't heard the "man I wish I didn't roll x" line either.

    And I think you're missing the point here.

    The inability to change out gear now means that if a shadow priest needs high crit for single target, and high mastery for aoe, now they're just going to be stuck sucking at one, rather than doing well with both by swapping gear.

    Instead, you'll be completely passed up for WW monk who can do both just fine without the need to swap gear around.

    This change isn't suddenly making Blizzard balance the classes perfectly.

  7. #47
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    Personally, I like it. The gear swapping is quite obnoxious.

    I find it to be much more meaningful having to choose your gear and build for the whole run in mind.
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  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wries View Post
    Are those 99% the ones trying to be competitive? Sounds like they aren't, and completing a +20 without swapping sets was entirely possible.

    This just removed depth from the high-end.
    "I don't X (raid mythic, push high keys) for the gear, I do it for the challenge. Wait, what? I'm constrained and it's more of a challenge!?! NOOOO!!!!"

  9. #49
    since there are no more lengendarys i dont see the problem

  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by Jester Joe View Post
    I haven't heard the "man I wish I didn't roll x" line either.

    And I think you're missing the point here.

    The inability to change out gear now means that if a shadow priest needs high crit for single target, and high mastery for aoe, now they're just going to be stuck sucking at one, rather than doing well with both by swapping gear.

    Instead, you'll be completely passed up for WW monk who can do both just fine without the need to swap gear around.

    This change isn't suddenly making Blizzard balance the classes perfectly.
    No, but you'll maybe see SPriest get either a ST or AE buff and WW see some lower numbers across the board. You'll then pair a SPriest with a class that compliments in by outperforming in opposing scenarios, depending on what SPriest are now good at, AND a WW, as opposed to never taking a SPriest without 2 gear sets.

  11. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by Jyggalag View Post
    Great argument. It makes pushing higher keys more difficult when you lose a layer of improvisation on the fly. I.e. "We keep dying to this boss. DPS isn't an issue, so we could kill it slower with more tanky gear but since we can't swap out, now the whole key is wasted as we can't kill it all". I guess Blizzard need to respond to this sort of criticism with proposed changes to M+ as a whole.
    That is essentially a far more thought out version of what I've been saying from the start.

    This isn't something that's just "taking away a layer of complexity", this is something that's gimping classes even more.

    I mean, for another example that the post didn't have, Black Rook Hold.

    Good luck getting into a Tyrannical one if you don't have an immunity if you can't swap gear to be more tanky. And if you go in with tanky gear, your dps is just going to suck on the fights that need to be burned down quickly, like the 2nd to last boss.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jyggalag View Post
    No, but you'll maybe see SPriest get either a ST or AE buff and WW see some lower numbers across the board. You'll then pair a SPriest with a class that compliments in by outperforming in opposing scenarios, depending on what SPriest are now good at, AND a WW, as opposed to never taking a SPriest without 2 gear sets.
    You won't though.
    Just look back on WoW's history. If your class is undertuned, you're stuck like that for at least a patch cycle generally.

    That's not even touching upon mechanical issues like one shots.

  12. #52
    Keep in mind these are big if's, and with Blizzard it's all about the if's, but it could end up being better due to balance in the actual 5 man itself and among the classes. It also could simply be something Blizzard see's as unhealthy for the game and wants to nip it in the bud. They have done that over the course of years even if players say they like it.

    Also it is something that could be done so that Azerite choices are more important for differing kinds of content, aka the shield talents vs the raw DPS ones. It just opens up things that players look at now and say " I would never pick that " and then they find themselves in a situation where they wished they would pick that.

    I generally don't agree with Blizzard on a whole lot these days, but generally speaking they don't make changes just to make something less fun for players. Usually there is at least a decent reason behind it, even if you don't agree with it.

  13. #53
    This will complicate pug runs for sure. With the 3 toons I do more than just a weekly 15 I have my preset gear combos based on the affix/dungeon combos and swap in and out of other things based on what the group is doing. This will make it harder to pick up slack if others are struggling.
    "Privilege is invisible to those who have it."

  14. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by Jyggalag View Post

    If Blizzard didn't feel there was reason for this change they wouldn't have made it.
    that's quite possibly one of the most naive and misguided arguments I have ever seen in these forums.

    ofc there is a reason for it: to dumb the game down.

    just because there's a reason for something doesnt mean it's a good change.

    it goes into the "dumb down" pile with forced personal loot, GCD on cooldowns, ability pruning and all the other BS changes in BFA

    there's quite a clear pattern there
    Last edited by shaunika123; 2018-06-14 at 05:13 PM.

  15. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by ItsTiddles View Post
    This mostly sucks for the specs that need defensive sets to keep up with specs that have a good survival kit. It's risking even less class variety at the top end which can still cause a trickle down effect for those "elitist +15 groups" who insist on meta groups for easy keys.

    For people who like the change because they hated having to have multiple gear sets, how high of keys were you doing? So far on the official thread feedback the people who are for the change aren't doing keys that require any swaps whereas people pushing high keys that depend on gear swaps are against it. It seems curious that people who should hardly be effected by the change are pushing for it.
    People who argue in favor of changes like this (much like the enforcement of personal loot across the board) are the people who just aren't good enough to actually do that kind of content, so being jealous, they want to screw people who are capable of it in any and every way possible, even if it's a fantastically stupid change.
    Cheerful lack of self-preservation

  16. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by Jester Joe View Post
    You won't though.
    Just look back on WoW's history. If your class is undertuned, you're stuck like that for at least a patch cycle generally.
    Not saying you definitely will, but it's in Blizzard's interest, and if they get it right, this is an overall good change for a larger portion of the playerbase than just those at the very top. You can't say you've never experienced vary degree of waiting times for M+ groups depending on your class/spec, with some being overlooked almost completely in favour of something else.

    If Blizz don't address glaring balance concerns, despite removing the one element that lagging specs could utilize to give them any chance of a competitive look in, this is indeed a pointless change that does nothing to dumb down the game. I'm giving Blizzard the benefit of the doubt here. It makes sense that this has been done from a class/spec balance perspective going on participation at all levels.

  17. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by Jyggalag View Post
    Point remains that by no longer having to swap this trinket I highly doubt mythic dungeons are suddenly "much less interesting" for you.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Sure, but the idea of possibly needing to do so will alienate a portion from ever attempting to be competitive in the first place. You won't hear many players at the high-end complaining either. Blizzard can now focus on balancing specs based on popular gear choices rather than specs with multiple gear choices. It's a win/win.
    Because Blizzard is so well known for their effective balancing, yes? If you arent willing to swap gear sets then you aren't willing to be competitive. It doesn't alienate anyone. If you're too lazy to hit a preset button to swap a gear set then there's no chance in hell you are committed enough to push a key.

  18. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by Jyggalag View Post
    Or much more interesting to players who dislike the idea of needing to maintain and swap out multiple gear sets in order to be competitive, which I'd bet is 99% of the playerbase.
    You can macro it and it made more gear valueable.
    Violence Jack Respects Women!

  19. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by Alvito View Post
    This will complicate pug runs for sure. With the 3 toons I do more than just a weekly 15 I have my preset gear combos based on the affix/dungeon combos and swap in and out of other things based on what the group is doing. This will make it harder to pick up slack if others are struggling.
    To tack onto this with a specific example.

    If I see the healer is struggling with others, right now as a prot paladin, I can swap out my legendary shoulders for the helm, giving my heal another charge and I'm already talented to be able to use it on others.

    Otherwise, if the dps is struggling, I keep my shoulders on for the extra burst on aoe packs.

    Granted, like I said with legendaries gone this won't matter AS much, but there will still be trinkets for similar effects (One more defense, one more aggressive).

  20. #60
    I hate this change having an aoe set made a bad week feel less shit we're also getting aoe azerite traits... We can also have multiple azerite setups this neuters those who are they listening to when it comes to feedback.
    Violence Jack Respects Women!

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