Raiding and M+ are NOT the same content. They need to stop treating it as such.

[nocturnus]

You missed the rolling eye sarcasm I guess.

I was supporting your statement, apologies for the misunderstanding.

Oh really? Maybe you need to check your data on what a special snowflake is.
A member of that newly-adult, me'er-than-me generation which expects attention and praise just for being themselves -- doing anything to deserve it is completely optional.

Maybe, just maybe, you should "check your data" on what context means and why it's important. Thanks for your substantial, relevant input, though.

[HuxNeva]

I am a mythic + runner, and I don't feel forced to do raiding. You do your kind of content for your gear, I do my kind of content for my gear. It's fine.

It might depênd on your class/spec. For me (mained Fire Mage), running without Tier or raid trinkets would not have been viable in M+.

[shaunika123]

Uh yeah......the system is the same as legion, and guess what top mythic guilds didn't do.

Again, we get it, you're a bad player and that item level was the only thing making you seem decent, so you felt obligated to chase it...but don't deflect your problems to the rest of us.

no it so isnt the same are you insane?

with no legendaries and tier sets holding like half your items down there's nothing stopping mythic+ to give good rewards to basically any slot.

add to that that raids are now personal loot so split raids are way less lucrative and you can easily see how spamming m+ would be better unless you're completely delusional

[Checkt]

no it so isnt the same are you insane?

with no legendaries and tier sets holding like half your items down there's nothing stopping mythic+ to give good rewards to basically any slot.

add to that that raids are now personal loot so split raids are way less lucrative and you can easily see how spamming m+ would be better unless you're completely delusional

idk how many ways I can keep telling you that you're just a bad player and think the sky is falling because you don't understand...its....well it's like talking to a wall at this point.

itllbeok.jpg, bud.

[shaunika123]

idk how many ways I can keep telling you that you're just a bad player and think the sky is falling because you don't understand...its....well it's like talking to a wall at this point.

itllbeok.jpg, bud.

statistically speaking I'm very much likely to be better than you so, yeah

[Very Tired]

So in short, some people are upset that an extra opportunity to get gear takes a bit more work so they want to kill the incentive for everyone, despite the vast majority of players enjoying mythic+ in Legion?

Yeah, I think it's safe to ignore this opinion.

[Jastall]

It just shows that people have double standards. Its quite simple.



Specific items are harder to get, sure, thats why you get more loot for doing the content on harder difficulty. They could just cut down the loots in an instance to compensate that, it's not a good reason to have infinite loot vs non-infinite.

At worst raiders are "required" to run M+ whenever they're not in the raid. There just simply isn't a reason for infinite loot possibility for one type of content and not for the other if rewards are equal.

- - - Updated - - -



So then theres no problem removing the need for raiders to do M+, rite?

Yes, that's why Method spent every waking hour since Antorus was released running M+, because a deluge of random, mostly garbage 940-950 pieces is just what a Mythic raider needs!

Or maybe not. It's not a problem right now at all, it won't be one in BfA. Ya'll are making an issue of a non-issue. It's OK for content out of raids to drop decent shit, and you're not ''forced'' to run it unless your guild is at the frontpage of Wowprogress.

[Checkt]

statistically speaking I'm very much likely to be better than you so, yeah

statistically speaking based upon no known variables or facts about me other that the fact that I recognize how ignorant you truly are.

YouNeedAHug.MOV

[nocturnus]

idk how many ways I can keep telling you that you're just a bad player and think the sky is falling because you don't understand...its....well it's like talking to a wall at this point.
itllbeok.jpg, bud.

great input! it was needed! Way to contribute and show just how adult you are!
itllbeokforyoutoobud.jpg

statistically speaking I'm very much likely to be better than you so, yeah

Both of you, get over yourselves.

[Checkt]

Both of you, get over yourselves.

great input! it was needed! Way to contribute and show just how adult you are!

itllbeokforyoutoobud.jpg

[shaunika123]

statistically speaking based upon no known variables or facts about me other that the fact that I recognize how ignorant you truly are.

YouNeedAHug.MOV

no, but based on what content I completed and how I completed it I'm better than 99% of players
which means statistically I'M likely better than you.

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/charact...agnaros/shauni

but hey, here enjoy.
even if i'M not better than you this proves i'M good so there's that.

[Drusin]

So nobody in your guild does the weekly m+ and yet you feel forced?

Oh they do, they'll pop on do it and logoff lol, you can see when in the guild news rewards.

There is no "feel forced", I defined what forced means.

Want to stay alive? You're forced to eat + drink
Want a lot of money? You're forced to work (how much is irrelevant)
Want to progress your character as much as possible? You're forced to do what Blizz implements
Want all the battle pets? Buy'em but eventually you'll be forced to pet battle

[Marrilaife]

Yes, that's why Method spent every waking hour since Antorus was released running M+, because a deluge of random, mostly garbage 940-950 pieces is just what a Mythic raider needs!

They spent every waking hour split running heroic Antorus on 7 alts, but remember that was in the world where master looter funneling existed and tier set bonuses existed. I'm predicting the appeal of m+ over split running hc raid will rise when those 2 factors are removed.

no, but based on what content I completed and how I completed it I'm better than 99% of players
which means statistically I'M likely better than you.

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/charact...agnaros/shauni

but hey, here enjoy.
even if i'M not better than you this proves i'M good so there's that.

I feel kinda sad for the situation where you are forced (by the guild? inner conscience?) to do all the nolife farm... While I know there are guilds where "weekly chest and done" is completely accepted and they're around your progress level or only barely after.

Yes, the TOV / NH AP farm was atrocious, but halfway during Legion it was nerfed to manageable requirements and m+ was nerfed to emphasize weekly chest over endless spam and I would absolutely expect that is the version Blizz is gonna stick to for BFA as their reward model.

Also WOD model was great for lazy people (including myself), but realistically they will never repeat it, because the expansion was a flop. We should always be prepared some amount of dailies / rep grinds / dungeons / etc. will be "required", that's how the game functioned forever, the question is just the scale of it. Personally I'd take "forced" weekly m+ over being "forced" to run daily heroic and lfr forever, which was the case in some past expansions.

The only worry I have about the reward structure going forward is how obsolete is gonna be heroic raiding in the face of no tiers / no masterloot and m+ dropping same ilvl (and not 5 less like now), m+ is gonna completely replace it unless raid drops OP trinkets or something.

If your guild split run hc, expect to farm m+ instead. But if your guild didn't split run hc, then I guess they didn't care as much for people to be geared by the end of week 1, as organizing split runs was the biggest contributor in Legion in how quickly the raid team geared up.

Can't read Hungarian so can't decipher if your guild split ran or not.

[Jastall]

They spent every waking hour split running heroic Antorus on 7 alts, but remember that was in the world where master looter funneling existed and tier set bonuses existed. I'm predicting the appeal of m+ over split running hc raid will rise when those 2 factors are removed.

I feel kinda sad for the situation where you are forced (by the guild? inner conscience?) to do all the nolife farm... While I know there are guilds where "weekly chest and done" is completely accepted and they're around your progress level or only barely after.

Yes, the TOV / NH AP farm was atrocious, but halfway during Legion it was nerfed to manageable requirements and m+ was nerfed to emphasize weekly chest over endless spam and I would absolutely expect that is the version Blizz is gonna stick to for BFA as their reward model.

Also WOD model was great for lazy people (including myself), but realistically they will never repeat it, because the expansion was a flop. We should always be prepared some amount of dailies / rep grinds / dungeons / etc. will be "required", that's how the game functioned forever, the question is just the scale of it. Personally I'd take "forced" weekly m+ over being "forced" to run daily heroic and lfr forever, which was the case in some past expansions.

The only worry I have about the reward structure going forward is how obsolete is gonna be heroic raiding in the face of no tiers / no masterloot and m+ dropping same ilvl (and not 5 less like now), m+ is gonna completely replace it unless raid drops OP trinkets or something.

If your guild split run hc, expect to farm m+ instead. But if your guild didn't split run hc, then I guess they didn't care as much for people to be geared by the end of week 1, as organizing split runs was the biggest contributor in Legion in how quickly the raid team geared up.

Can't read Hungarian so can't decipher if your guild split ran or not.

If the same amount of people spam M+ as those that split run, it is fair to say the problem is not major as very few even among Mythic raiders split run (By that I mean do much than the usual Heroic run or two on release week).

Ultimately this is not a big problem, and Blizzard shouldn't change the game for the sake of the 1% of the 1% that are actually ''forced'' to chase gear that way. And hey, in this situation personally I'd rather do M+ than run Heroic like 6 or 7 times in a row.

[lappee]

Yes, that's why Method spent every waking hour since Antorus was released running M+, because a deluge of random, mostly garbage 940-950 pieces is just what a Mythic raider needs!

Or maybe not. It's not a problem right now at all, it won't be one in BfA. Ya'll are making an issue of a non-issue. It's OK for content out of raids to drop decent shit, and you're not ''forced'' to run it unless your guild is at the frontpage of Wowprogress.

Legion and BfA are inherently different, specifically Antorus. In Antorus we have so many slots that are taken by certain items (tiers, legendaries, trinkets, weapons) that cut down the possible loots from M+, this won't be the case in BfA. Top end raiders will use all of the time they can in the instance as long as they don't run into gear checks that they can't handle with their current gear, however if they can't raid due to breaks (grocery shops, cooking etc.) some raiders do take advantage of that and try to get more gear.

Infinite loot is always a problem and it can easily be solved by a lockout system. It doesn't make or break the game, just balance it. You can still run M+ as many times as you want, you won't just get loot more than once per instance, and even that can be arranged so that you can decide which run you want the loot from.

People will be "forced" to do shit as long as rewards are anywhere close to equal and theres no problem with that. It really is just the infinite farming that is the problem.

[munkeyinorbit]

I wonder when people will stop using this argument.

if you are a mythic raider you are absolutely forced to do mythic+ there is no way around it.

you dont "feel" forced, you ARE forced.

Only losers complain about being "forced" to do something. No one is forcing you to do anything. You are choosing to do it. If that is where you think you need to be to do your job? Then do it. If you don't like it then don't do it.

[Grusalugg]

Do you know how many weekly chests I have opened during legion and how many were upgrades? Lol

[exochaft]

It might depênd on your class/spec. For me (mained Fire Mage), running without Tier or raid trinkets would not have been viable in M+.

This is where I hope Blizz improves, as "required" gear is not really fun in any content. While tier gear is gone, Azerite gear has replaced it to some degree. If Blizz doesn't make raid and mythic+ Azerite gear both desirable, I'd consider it a failure. Same can be extended to trinkets. If there is to be truly choice in running content, it shouldn't be an illusion where one content always provides the better gear (ilvl aside). I've lost a little faith in their ability to balance such things, as we had weapon relics in Legion where traits >>>>>>>> ilvl for some specs (such as traits being worth 40-60 ilvls on the relic), and Azerite gear has the same potential if done poorly. Even on the beta, I've run across some traits where I couldn't upgrade the piece because the traits were too good on the lower ilvl.

[Grevmak]

Couldn't the same be said about M+? "Farm those raids if you want to be competitive".

Double standards ftw.

How dare you bring up logic in my subjectively opinionated thread!? /s

Seriously OP, give this to people who actually like dungeons. Yes, you are forced by design to do this content to get good loot, but then again so are M+ players. It's good that dungeons actually are content again, don't take this away.

[Baroclinic]

Do you know how many weekly chests I have opened during legion and how many were upgrades? Lol

Me: Screw it, this week I'm not going to waste my time and gold on anything besides that 12 I did for the Leather Working quest, not like I ever get an upgrade...
(item that would have actually been an upgrade shows up in chest)

LOL, I feel your pain.

I really just don't care anymore. There's not much in a M+ I cant get with a better chance of actually getting equal to in a raid without having to memorize a bunch of 1 shot mechanics.