Classic update. It will be on 1.12 and it will be on battle.net :)

[Augrelle]

To that person saying it wouldn't be that hard to spell data over....

There are 2,990 'spells' that make the classes, talents, and racails. Each spell rank counts as a new spell.

That doesn't include professions (with each craft counting as a spell), any item effect, and any NPC ability.

Oh yeah, weapon skills were also counted as spells. I bet it could could break 5k. But let's assume it's low at 4k

Now that is just entries. Each entry would have multiple data points.

So let's double that to 6k. Each spell would have at least two parts, a name and a first effect. Let's say half also has a secondary effect. That's 7.5k data points.

So they would need to copy over 7.5k data points from the old system to the new one.

However that's very low. We see that a rank of fireball has 10 data points to it. Frostbolt has 9.

So let's say that spells have at least 5 parts to them. Let's take the class spells, talents, and racails. 2,990. So that's 14,950 points need to be copied over.

[God Save The King]

You aren't missing much. Vanilla was a giant piece of shit, people are nostalgic not for Vanilla but for that fresh MMO experience. If you've played WoW at all, you won't get the same experience, no one will, ever again. People miss the fresh experience, not Vanilla. Bringing it back doesn't do anything, people will get their nostalgic fix and be done with it in a month.

It's like getting a remake of a classic film, sure it's great to see once to relive that feeling, but it's never going to be the same.

I think that's true for the majority of players. They'll have a goal or something they want to relive, and then move on once they've had their fill. I think there is a very vocal, and very small, minority that will continue to play the game for months/years. They too will eventually quit once they've finished though.

- - - Updated - - -

To that person saying it wouldn't be that hard to spell data over....

The other issue is constantly backing up a database is insanely inefficient and takes up way to much space. If Blizzard set up their databases well, there'd be at least two of them. One for User data, so like names, equipment, achievements, etc. And a second one for Content (or static) data. Stuff like quest rewards, quest text, mob spawn points, spawn times, loot tables, spell/item tables, etc.

Given the nature of things like content data, that is rarely backed up, even less so in the early 2000s when storage was a premium. They probably have one or two archival back ups. And given how data structure/storage changes over the years, all of that needs to be translated into their modern data systems. Blizzard likely has not-entirely complete data, and definitely improperly formatted data. Moving all of that over will take ages.

And it's definitely going to be beyond spells. MMOs are necessarily data driven. Quest information, mob damage, mob location, drops, drop rates, items, spells, professions, trainers, ranks, abilities, and so on are all likely data driven.

[Deleted]

You aren't missing much. Vanilla was a giant piece of shit, people are nostalgic not for Vanilla but for that fresh MMO experience. If you've played WoW at all, you won't get the same experience, no one will, ever again. People miss the fresh experience, not Vanilla. Bringing it back doesn't do anything, people will get their nostalgic fix and be done with it in a month.

It's like getting a remake of a classic film, sure it's great to see once to relive that feeling, but it's never going to be the same.

Dont fucking dare telling me "why" i love vanilla. You dont know me.
I like vanilla for a thousand different reason that guys like you dont understand.
I could tell you why but is a wate of my time, so i wont even bother.

Guys like you only say DUUR DURR is nostalgia. DURR DURR is just because it was fresh and new.

You know nothing.

edit: I had no idea saying the word "durr" was literally calling other person something. Im not english, i just saw other people using it and i used it myself. Sorry about that.

[stevenho]

So let's say that spells have at least 5 parts to them. Let's take the class spells, talents, and racails. 2,990. So that's 14,950 points need to be copied over.

That would take about 1 hour of writing the import script and 2 seconds of running it.

[Kathranis]

Personally it's disappointing to me that they're going with 1.12.

They're using 1.12 as their foundation, as it's the most complete version of Classic. From there they will systematically correct inconsistencies between the game version and the modern back-end architecture so that it incorporates modern stability, security, and battle.net integration.

From there they can tailor the game as the community and developers see fit. I fully expect it to not be completely identical to 1.12, as there may be some perculiar gameplay/stat/tuning outliers that would benefit from additional tuning. Take Warcraft III, for example, which has gotten occasional minor balance changes over the years for the sake of the game's longterm health.

More importantly, I fully expect them to provide Progression Servers. Which means that while they may use 1.12 (or "1.12+ / 1.13") as the baseline game version, they'll have the option to selectively peel away content and features and then gradually roll them out over time, perhaps on a set timeline or based on community voting and feedback. So for example they may launch Classic with final systems and gameplay balance, but unlock battlegrounds, dungeons, and raids following a similar timeline to the original patch cycle.

[Thimagryn]

They're using 1.12 as their foundation, as it's the most complete version of Classic. From there will they systematically correct inconsistencies between the game version and the modern back-end architecture so that it incorporates modern stability, security, and likely login and battle.net integration.

From there they can tailor the game as the community and developers see fit. I fully expect it to not be completely identical to 1.12, as there may be some perculiar gameplay/stat/tuning outliers that would benefit from additional tuning. Take Warcraft III, for example, which has gotten occasional minor balance changes over the years for the sake of the game's longterm health.

More importantly, I fully expect them to provide Progression Servers. Which means that while they may use 1.12 (or "1.12+ / 1.13") as the baseline game version, they'll have the option to selectively peel away content and features and then gradually roll them out over time, perhaps on a set timeline or based on community voting and feedback. So for example they may launch Classic with final systems and gameplay balance, but unlock battlegrounds, dungeons, and raids following a similar timeline to the original patch cycle.

Honestly I wouldn't mind progression servers, if this means a 'Classic Plus' system. It only makes sense to open up options for those who want to revisit Vanilla content sans masochism. Of course, 'minor balance changes' is relative, since any change at all has been argued for and against to death around here.

[Kathranis]

That would take about 1 hour of writing the import script and 2 seconds of running it.

And months of Q&A testing because fundamentally reworking the database structure is likely going to break a lot of dependencies in the poorly documented and nonsensical tangle of the game's spaghetti code.

[Jastall]

And months of Q&A testing because fundamentally reworking the database structure is likely going to break a lot of dependencies in the poorly documented and nonsensical tangle of the game's spaghetti code.

Shhh, these people live in some sort of fantasy land where coding is easy, nothing ever goes wrong and ''just write a new script'' in an environment that has been constantly patched up and down for more than a decade works flawlessly.

[FelPlague]

Anyone can trust me because im 100% no changes.

well you are 98% no changes, if i rememberr correct you are fine with bug fixes and colour blind mode.

[Deleted]

well you are 98% no changes, if i rememberr correct you are fine with bug fixes and colour blind mode.

Oh god, yeah...but...argh.

[MikeBogina]

So will the class imbalance back then still be a thing? Because if so, I'm making a rogue or warrior

[Calculons]

People please, 1.12 is going to be the base game, NOT THE PROGRESSION. The timeline will be fresh in which you will be able to progress through all patches within a time that Blizz will tell in the future.

What are the patches?

1- Molten Core / Onyxia

2- Dire Maul / Azuregos / Kazzak

3- Elemental Invasion

4- Alterac Valley

5- Blackwing Lair / Darkmoon Faire

6- Silithus

7- Dungeon Set 1 Release

8- Zul'Gurub

9- Dragons Of Nightmare

10- Argent Dawn

11- Ahn Qiraj War Effort

12- Ahn Qiraj

13- Scourge Invasion

14 Naxxramas

[Rogalicus]

I never expected them to actually try using 1.12 code which seems counterintuituve and stupid.

[MoanaLisa]

Interesting watercooler. I had wondered about how extensive their database schema changes were over the years and whether or not they were going to go with something like the original client or integrate the game into the current client with all of its security features. I'm not surprised they chose the latter.

It will take them a good long while to do the schema changes and then get them debugged. I'm sure the professional database mavens who read this found all of this pretty interesting.

Good to finally hear something.

[hulkgor]

To that person saying it wouldn't be that hard to spell data over....

There are 2,990 'spells' that make the classes, talents, and racails. Each spell rank counts as a new spell.

That doesn't include professions (with each craft counting as a spell), any item effect, and any NPC ability.

Oh yeah, weapon skills were also counted as spells. I bet it could could break 5k. But let's assume it's low at 4k

Now that is just entries. Each entry would have multiple data points.

So let's double that to 6k. Each spell would have at least two parts, a name and a first effect. Let's say half also has a secondary effect. That's 7.5k data points.

So they would need to copy over 7.5k data points from the old system to the new one.

However that's very low. We see that a rank of fireball has 10 data points to it. Frostbolt has 9.

So let's say that spells have at least 5 parts to them. Let's take the class spells, talents, and racails. 2,990. So that's 14,950 points need to be copied over.

What a silly notion.

Even if its 15k points needing to be copied over, that's nothing. How long do you think each one would take? 1 minute on average? Some would be more, but the vast majority would be less... That's 50 hours~ work for 5 people... less than 2 weeks. That part (copying the data) is the easy part... let's be real.

[MoanaLisa]

And months of Q&A testing because fundamentally reworking the database structure is likely going to break a lot of dependencies in the poorly documented and nonsensical tangle of the game's spaghetti code.

They're normalizing classic data to work with their current code which is better documented than you probably imagine and, as they wrote, pretty flexible. It's still messy but they've been swapping out and rewriting code modules ever since the Cataclysm rewrite. Their engineering panels at Blizzcon are just about my favorite thing the last couple of years. They're very enlightening.

- - - Updated - - -

What a silly notion.

Even if its 15k points needing to be copied over, that's nothing. How long do you think each one would take? 1 minute on average? Some would be more, but the vast majority would be less... That's 50 hours~ work for 5 people... less than 2 weeks. That part (copying the data) is the easy part... let's be real.

And then there's the time it takes to track down what was converted to see if it still works the same way. I've done database schema conversions in a couple of days. You spend months afterwards making sure it works properly.

[Dug]

Sounds like what the classic people want so not understanding the bitching. I've no doubts the content will be time gated to match up with the vanilla release schedule. As for 1.12 class strength with stuff like MC... I mean aren't people blowing through that stuff basically half asleep anyways on "legit" private servers? Our modern knowledge and 10+ years of theorycrafting for vanilla will kind of do that regardless

[Deleted]

To that person saying it wouldn't be that hard to spell data over....

There are 2,990 'spells' that make the classes, talents, and racails. Each spell rank counts as a new spell.

That doesn't include professions (with each craft counting as a spell), any item effect, and any NPC ability.

Oh yeah, weapon skills were also counted as spells. I bet it could could break 5k. But let's assume it's low at 4k

Now that is just entries. Each entry would have multiple data points.

So let's double that to 6k. Each spell would have at least two parts, a name and a first effect. Let's say half also has a secondary effect. That's 7.5k data points.

So they would need to copy over 7.5k data points from the old system to the new one.

However that's very low. We see that a rank of fireball has 10 data points to it. Frostbolt has 9.

So let's say that spells have at least 5 parts to them. Let's take the class spells, talents, and racails. 2,990. So that's 14,950 points need to be copied over.

How did you double 4k to 6k?

[RickJamesLich]

Great news, lord knows us classic fan boys don't get many updates but this is great to hear.

[alturic]

Blizzard likely has not-entirely complete data, and definitely improperly formatted data. Moving all of that over will take ages.

I know, I know, it's just based on their example, but:

INSERT INTO spell_effect (spell_id, effect, damage)
SELECT id, effect_one, effect_damage_one
FROM spells

INSERT INTO spell_aura (spell_id, aura, damage)
SELECT id, aura_two, aura_damage_two
FROM spells

Technically, I don't consider their spell_effect and spell_aura example to be normalized either, but I'm a stickler for 3NF.

On-topic though, I figured it'd be 1.12, as that was the last patch for vanilla, and I don't anticipate them progressing once this is live. It will be interesting to see what changes they make (notice how they are very careful with their wording of "classic experience") to the 1.12 gameplay.