Demo Changes!

[Kithelle]

Mobility is extremely improved over legion which was probably the specs biggest Achilles heel. With baseline implosion the spec has an answer to on demand target swap at a overall loss which is acceptable for what the specs trying to be.

Not having DE being replaced by DB has a huge affect on ramp.

Spec still has some hamstrings, but they seem intentional. Spec is absolutely more flexible than it was.

You'd think DE was never a thing the way some people act, like Demo was always this mobile...this enjoyable.

[Requimortem]

Hope your brain didn't overheat coming up with the witty retort.

You've obviously shown you're not in the beta or that you can't handle playing the game without playing a OP spec.

You have nothing to fear, it's effortless when someone like you is involved.

Both are wrong, especially since I don't exclusively play a single specialization in either of my classes. If you want to keep swinging, go for it; I'm sure you'll eventually hit something... even if it's likely to be that big head of yours.

[Duckz0rs]

OP spec numerically doesn't address one bit the fact that demo has kept all of its weaknesses from Legion. You are using the same argument used against Affliction.

Fact is, demo still has ramp up, it still has shit target switching, without overinflated numbers it has poor aoe, and it lacks burst. More importantly, it is still lopsidedly reliant on haste to a ridiculous degree over the other secondaries. None of that has changed. The big numbers just masked that as they did with affliction.

So now demo is in a spot where it'll need to be a top ST DPS spec by a mile to even be relevant compared to destruction.

As Baconeggcheese said, I don't really think that's true for Demo anymore. Mobility has been improved by a ton with the removal of DE and addition of DB procs, Soul Strike and even Implosion in a pinch. Target swapping still isn't the best, but much more feasible with Implosion on top of, again, DB stacks and Soul Strike (which doesn't seem to have a range last I checked). I feel people are kind of underestimating the value of DB procs when used correctly. In a target swapping situation where an add needs to die fast: instant DB > Soul Strike > HoG > Implosion has some great potential there without losing much damage.

Demo's kit is also just quite versatile overall. Destro will have it beat on cleave, obviously, but Demo has some great burst AoE, depending on tuning likely beating Destro between Implosion and Bilescourge Bombers/Demonic Strength and Grim: Felguard. For now it also seems to have similar or better mobility than Destro when you take Soul Strike.

Personally I expect to switch between the specs quite often. Which is a good thing to me at least.

@Baconeggcheese Yeah, when I took the signature I thought "I'll remove it when it's not relevant anymore". Doubt that's ever going to happen though.

[Kithelle]

As Baconeggcheese said, I don't really think that's true for Demo anymore. Mobility has been improved by a ton with the removal of DE and addition of DB procs, Soul Strike and even Implosion in a pinch. Target swapping still isn't the best, but much more feasible with Implosion on top of, again, DB stacks and Soul Strike (which doesn't seem to have a range last I checked). I feel people are kind of underestimating the value of DB procs when used correctly. In a target swapping situation where an add needs to die fast: instant DB > Soul Strike > HoG > Implosion has some great potential there without losing much damage.

Demo's kit is also just quite versatile overall. Destro will have it beat on cleave, obviously, but Demo has some great burst AoE, depending on tuning likely beating Destro between Implosion and Bilescourge Bombers/Demonic Strength and Grim: Felguard. For now it also seems to have similar or better mobility than Destro when you take Soul Strike.

Personally I expect to switch between the specs quite often. Which is a good thing to me at least.

@Baconeggcheese Yeah, when I took the signature I thought "I'll remove it when it's not relevant anymore". Doubt that's ever going to happen though.

Yeah...instead people will bitch and moan because they wanted their unbalanced spec to stay unbalanced...claim it was balanced. Balanced specs don't have people migrating to it because it's balanced...they migrate to it because it's strong.

Even have a internet troll using trolling 101, because they can't accept that their crutch is broken.

[Gaidax]

I am actually looking forward to turn this into a case study. I long had this theory that difference between "awesome and fun" spec "clunky and bad" spec is mostly having to do with whether the spec wrecks or not.

Let's see how attitudes towards Demo will evolve now it won't be rolling everything to dust in Beta. I bet we gonna see that "clunky" meaningless bullshit a lot more now.

[Sesshomaru]

For some odd reason, I got access to Beta last night. Done downloading it 1 hour ago and have tried Demo which has always been my favourite place ever since I started in TBC.

Selin Fireheart (first boss in Magisters' Terrace) sums pretty much everything up rather nicely.

Spoiler: 

[Baconeggcheese]

I am actually looking forward to turn this into a case study. I long had this theory that difference between "awesome and fun" spec "clunky and bad" spec is mostly having to do with whether the spec wrecks or not.

Let's see how attitudes towards Demo will evolve now it won't be rolling everything to dust in Beta. I bet we gonna see that "clunky" meaningless bullshit a lot more now.

I found affliction an absolute chore to play at every point in legion and it being OP did nothing to help that.

Demo was also my least favorite spec all of mop / wod, even when it was thee spec (UVLS, BRF).

But yeah, a lot of that I imagine comes down to a feel of "this isn't working, I'm not getting the results I feel I should be" and then looking for why that might be in a way that isn't just BUFFS PLIS KTHX. Which is expressed with the C word a lot of the time.

[Werst]

Demo isn't BM hunter with demons and never will be. If people are looking for an easy spec that steps on meters demo isn't going to be it. Demo will be good for those who learn to surf its mechanics and probably disappointing to those who go FOTM and maybe aren't much more than casuals (not a ton into WA, addons, and the precision they allow).

Demo is categorically better than live. Yes its still a turret but far less than it was and more predictable in its movement. You could stutter step with sbolt/DE and lifetap but you couldn't get a lot of movement. Depending on how they do content in regards to movement the spec should be competitive if not numerically dominant. It certainly has better options than it did before. I'd rather see DoomGUARD as the talent in place of doom. You drop a DG who nukes a target for 30 seconds. Just don't like conventional dots, yes I know pets are dots, in the spec. Especially one as mechanically challenged as Doom... Everyone was excited about proc'ing a doomguard from doom and nobody was ever excited about doom. Blizz - please read between the lines.

[Kithelle]

I am actually looking forward to turn this into a case study. I long had this theory that difference between "awesome and fun" spec "clunky and bad" spec is mostly having to do with whether the spec wrecks or not.

Let's see how attitudes towards Demo will evolve now it won't be rolling everything to dust in Beta. I bet we gonna see that "clunky" meaningless bullshit a lot more now.

Can't you see, already people are talking about how the spec sucks...people were talking about how awesome the spec was...how cool it is now with all the changes. You take away the (over)power and suddenly it isn't *cool* anymore.

[Dibullba]

I only got to play the "OP" Demo for barely a week. I am still playing it because I find it fun. I will probably still play it when it goes live. But it is important for people to understand that they should not be playing a spec. They should be playing a class. There will likely be fights where Destro will be better than Demo due to cleave scenarios for example. So while I do want to keep to Demo mostly, I will not ignore areas where the class can excel.

[Styxz]

My only beefs with Demo on Beta are:

- Nether Portal (tuning)
- Vilefiend cast. It's not consistent with the other two talented demons (Bombers and FG).
- Tyrant duration nerf or bug or whatever it is. It's a huge nerf to aesthetic and fantasy of having the horde of demons. Felt awesome and I can't/won't believe Blizz can't find a way to balance that.

[xuros]

I keep finding myself wanting to hit my Demonic Empowerment hotkey when I get my dops and imps out...

[Challenge]

Fotm rerollers upset demo isnt broken as shit when a real numbers pass hasnt even happened in beta, wowzers

Just a touch up now that demo is more or less in its final state numbers aside

AoE is significantly WORSE in terms of smoothness and flow. Demonwrath>Implosion all day. Especially in PvP as demonwrath generated shards and implosion just does dmg.
Doom as a talent is utterly worthless. 100% unviable outside of raids and 3v3 matches where there is no curse dispel and its still dogshit in those situations.
Vilefield doesnt need a casttime and needs a charge upon summoning so half its duration isnt wasting just lumbering to it's target
Value of crit is far too low

Overall BFA demo appears better than legion demo by design aside from true sustained AoE (Legion demo had the best sustain stacked AoE period).

[Kithelle]

Fotm rerollers upset demo isnt broken as shit when a real numbers pass hasnt even happened in beta, wowzers

Just a touch up now that demo is more or less in its final state numbers aside

AoE is significantly WORSE in terms of smoothness and flow. Demonwrath>Implosion all day. Especially in PvP as demonwrath generated shards and implosion just does dmg.
Doom as a talent is utterly worthless. 100% unviable outside of raids and 3v3 matches where there is no curse dispel and its still dogshit in those situations.
Vilefield doesnt need a casttime and needs a charge upon summoning so half its duration isnt wasting just lumbering to it's target
Value of crit is far too low

Overall BFA demo appears better than legion demo by design aside from true sustained AoE (Legion demo had the best sustain stacked AoE period).

Yup, their crutch is broken...so they start whining and trolling because they'll have to move onto the next op and easy spec.

[Requimortem]

Yup, their crutch is broken...so they start whining and trolling because they'll have to move onto the next op and easy spec.

You're quite the broken record.

[Dibullba]

AoE is significantly WORSE in terms of smoothness and flow. Demonwrath>Implosion all day. Especially in PvP as demonwrath generated shards and implosion just does dmg.

Implosion does have a chance for you to obtain shards though if they trigger Demonic Core. Not guaranteed and will require follow up gcds to be used, but just a slight correction in that it is capable of giving soul shards. If the AoE does proove to be a bit too rough because of soul shard generation, then I likely foresee them buffing the percentage within Demonic Core to 15%-20% up from 10%.

[xuros]

Implosion does have a chance for you to obtain shards though if they trigger Demonic Core. Not guaranteed and will require follow up gcds to be used, but just a slight correction in that it is capable of giving soul shards. If the AoE does proove to be a bit too rough because of soul shard generation, then I likely foresee them buffing the percentage within Demonic Core to 15%-20% up from 10%.

With demonwrath it was easier to build up enough shards to get two groups of imps out to implode on a trash pack. Now with how impolsion works its going to be a lot less damage if you are able to implode 2 groups at a time due to it doing less per imp due to energy being used up with each cast from the first group while you build shards for the 2nd HoG.

[Gaidax]

Well, AoE is quite a bit more than just Implosion now.

I do think that Shadow Bolt should have had baseline F&B effect to turn it into Shadow Bolt Volley. No increased shard generation, but simply because it feels kind of lame tossing ST shadow bolts in huge pack of stuff.

[Deleted]

Well, AoE is quite a bit more than just Implosion now.

I do think that Shadow Bolt should have had baseline F&B effect to turn it into Shadow Bolt Volley. No increased shard generation, but simply because it feels kind of lame tossing ST shadow bolts in huge pack of stuff.

Well, think about it...if you do that, why not leave it with Demonwrath? Pruning doesn't cut it then

They could simply remove the ability to move while channeling it.. if they didn't want people to use it for movement.

The increased shard generation is/should have been fine for AoE... many specs and classes have abundant ressources or better ressource generation during AoE scenarios.

Warlock specs are no exception (Destro Cataclysm Immolate - Affliction Agony on multiple targets)

[AwkwardSquirtle]

Well, think about it...if you do that, why not leave it with Demonwrath? Pruning doesn't cut it then

They could simply remove the ability to move while channeling it.. if they didn't want people to use it for movement.

The increased shard generation is fine for AoE... many (if not all?) specs and classes have abundant ressources or better ressource generation during AoE scenarios.

That level of increased generation wouldn't fit with demo's resource design. Shards are extremely valuable, far more than the few shardbits you gain as destruction. Demo's discrete resource amounts are far larger. It would make us far too powerful in AoE situations. They could make SBV a cooldown potentially. SB hits all targets within X yards for Y seconds, generating shards accordingly. Gives us a massive imp window in multi target situations, for a massive implosion to just wreck everything's face.