What are we paying $50 + $15 for?

[Anjerith]

We've been sorely overpaying for WoW for a while now. Feels great to fund garbage like HotS or Overwatch, eh?

I hope most people aren't as ignorant as this person appears to be. Overwatch and Hots fund themselves. WoW subs fund WoW. If anything, some of that might filter over to Diablo or Starcraft - since those games don't have particular Pay mechanics and receive regular support and updates.

[Swizzington]

How do you get off being this ilogical?

Point to us the MMO that has content cadence similar to WoW and doesn't charge for an expansion. Entitled much? There is none.

Go play your F2P MMO's for real. Go and see how it is before you claim this isn't acceptable. Maybe you prefer those other P2W lootbox models with premium memberships on top of them and content cadence 1/5 th of WoW's if you are lucky. Go years with hardly any new raids or new expansion content. Go out there and actually find out what the reality of the market is, before you complain.

World of Warcraft is expensive. Blizzard games in general are expensive. That's just how it is.

The nature of 'the market' is not foreign to me. Actually, I think that's part of the problem. I would assume that - given the limited amount of hours in the day - most people who heavily invest time in WoW probably don't invest sufficient time in other games in order to draw a reasonable comparison.

Besides, I was not just speaking of MMOs. There are plenty of other types of games, and plenty of studios out there that produce great games at half the price of the BfA expansion alone. But, if you do want to discuss MMOs specifically, I would ask if you have ever played ESO? You can buy it at the moment for 10 dollars and that includes the Morrowind expansion. The latest expansion costs $20. I am not going to argue whether it is a better game than WoW overall because that's highly subjective, but for the price you get a very polished game with a truck load of quality content. It's a better deal, in my opinion.

You mentioned that WoW is constantly being updated, highlighting its 'content cadence'. I would argue that is what the monthly subscription pays for, and that the expansions being so expensive on top of that is nothing more than a cash grab. Of course, I do not propose that expansions should be free, but this one - and Legion too for that matter - are at least 20 dollars more expensive than they ought to be. Blizzard largely justifies this (or at least, they used to) by saying, "Hey, but look! You get a 'free' character boost included too!". I do not need that boost and I resent having to pay for it.

[Sastank]

No class balance at launch
No raids at launch
No allied races at launch
No mythic+ at launch
No PvP seasons at launch
No flying at launch

And they're asking us to fork out an additional month's of subscription fees while these features are still locked until 8.1 and beyond? This expansion has cash grab written all over it. At this rate, patch 8.1 should be the official launch date of the expansion.

Class balance happens near or shortly after first raid

When did no raids at launch become an issue since you can't do them at launch anyways due to level/attunements (back in the day) and you know, enough people with enough gear etc.

We have allied races in Legion. You don't get all of them, wah.

No fly no buy club member eh? Wah

Seems like you shouldn't be giving them anything. Don't buy the game. Don't pay the sub. Just go away

[cparle87]

We've been sorely overpaying for WoW for a while now. Feels great to fund garbage like HotS or Overwatch, eh?

If you think about it rationally we're paying just under 7c per day over the course of the expansion for its content, and 50c a day for access to the game on its most expensive sub plan. I'd say we're drastically underpaying.

[Rogalicus]

If you think about it rationally we're paying just under 7c per day over the course of the expansion for its content, and 50c a day for access to the game on its most expensive sub plan. I'd say we're drastically underpaying.

If you think about it rationally, you can pay $5 a month for Origin Access and play more than a 100 games versus paying $15 a month for one game.

[cparle87]

If you think about it rationally, you can pay $5 a month for Origin Access and play more than a 100 games versus paying $15 a month for one game.

But none of those 100 games are WoW and most of them you couldn't pay me to waste my time on.

Bragging about getting a rotten slimy chewed tennis ball from the bargain dumpster for 25c instead of having to pat $3 for a half dozen new ones isn't very helpful.

[Igi]

No class balance at launch
No raids at launch
No allied races at launch
No mythic+ at launch
No PvP seasons at launch
No flying at launch

And they're asking us to fork out an additional month's of subscription fees while these features are still locked until 8.1 and beyond? This expansion has cash grab written all over it. At this rate, patch 8.1 should be the official launch date of the expansion.

And who exactly is forcing you to pay?

[Rogalicus]

But none of those 100 games are WoW

So much for being rational.

OK, second example. Every 4 months WoW costs you like another expansion despite releasing 1/10 portion of it at most.

[cparle87]

So much for being rational.

OK, second example. Every 4 months WoW costs you like another expansion despite releasing 1/10 portion of it at most.

And if you bought a $1 soda every day you'd be spending 50% more than are you on WoW in that timeframe.

Also don't forget that my 7c per day example doesn't take into account that the old content doesn't disappear when the xpac ends. If you're still running old raids then you're still benefiting. By that logic Wrath has only cost you 1.4c per day since you bought it.

[Orby]

No class balance at launch
No raids at launch
No allied races at launch
No mythic+ at launch
No PvP seasons at launch
No flying at launch

And they're asking us to fork out an additional month's of subscription fees while these features are still locked until 8.1 and beyond? This expansion has cash grab written all over it. At this rate, patch 8.1 should be the official launch date of the expansion.

Your're right, I think you should not play the game and quit...

Phew bet your thankful I just saved you time on buying this expansion considering you don't feel it worth it

For me I think the amount of hours I will be putting in is well worth the price. And that's enough for me...

[Deleted]

World of Warcraft is expensive. Blizzard games in general are expensive. That's just how it is.

The nature of 'the market' is not foreign to me. Actually, I think that's part of the problem. I would assume that - given the limited amount of hours in the day - most people who heavily invest time in WoW probably don't invest sufficient time in other games in order to draw a reasonable comparison.

Besides, I was not just speaking of MMOs. There are plenty of other types of games, and plenty of studios out there that produce great games at half the price of the BfA expansion alone. But, if you do want to discuss MMOs specifically, I would ask if you have ever played ESO? You can buy it at the moment for 10 dollars and that includes the Morrowind expansion. The latest expansion costs $20. I am not going to argue whether it is a better game than WoW overall because that's highly subjective, but for the price you get a very polished game with a truck load of quality content. It's a better deal, in my opinion.

You mentioned that WoW is constantly being updated, highlighting its 'content cadence'. I would argue that is what the monthly subscription pays for, and that the expansions being so expensive on top of that is nothing more than a cash grab. Of course, I do not propose that expansions should be free, but this one - and Legion too for that matter - are at least 20 dollars more expensive than they ought to be. Blizzard largely justifies this (or at least, they used to) by saying, "Hey, but look! You get a 'free' character boost included too!". I do not need that boost and I resent having to pay for it.

I haven't played ESO very much, no. So i can't judge how bug their expansions are or not compared to WoW's, not how often they have content patches with raids.

Blizzard has a model. You pay the expansion fee for the new expansion. You pay the sub for the patch content. But, if you aren't feeling you are spending enough time to be worth the money, you can always stop your sub and come back whenever you want. Many people unsub in the period after the last tier patch. It's perfectly justifiable. So, you don't have to have your sub running constantly if you aren't playing.

The price of the product though, is justified imo. I honestly enjoy having this much content and few mmo's can deliver this amount of content and i can tell you that is super frustrating. There's nothing worse than a game going by in little content drops, no matter how much you enjoy playing it.
You say WoW is expensive, i say tell me how else this can be done. So, do you know how big these ESO expansions are? Tell me honestly if they are on the same level. How many patches do they have between expansions? How many raids do they add?

Like, i have looked into ESO before but the combat looked terrible so it's one of the few i didn't jump in after getting quite bored during the beta.

[Deleted]

Theres actually a good reason why those things are not in launch. Competitive people would feel forced to powerlevel and not enjoy the world, since the first players could potentially get an advantage.

[Aeriedk]

EVER?

Flying used to be at launch

New races or ckasses whiich allied races come closest to yep at launch

Raids? Prettty sure a few easy ones have been at launch before

I honestly love flying being delayed. I honestly feel flying should lag an expansion behind.

For example flying in legion would be locked until BFA released and so on.

[ChampionChains]

If you prefer, you could switch to single player games. $20-$60 for usually about 12 hours of entertainment. I'd rather pay $15 for unlimited play, but to each his own.

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I honestly love flying being delayed. I honestly feel flying should lag an expansion behind.

For example flying in legion would be locked until BFA released and so on.

I'd prefer they remove flying altogether, but that's just me. I'm happy with Pathfinder working the way it does.

[Aeriedk]

If you think about it rationally, you can pay $5 a month for Origin Access and play more than a 100 games versus paying $15 a month for one game.

Quality over quantity. $5 for a bunch of garbage isn’t nearly as valuable as $15 for something fun.

I think the point really is that the value of WoW changes based on who is playing it.

I think that I get good value from WoW and think it’s priced well. Some people think we’re underpaying and are thrilled with it. Others feel they are overpaying and bitch about it, but honestly if you aren’t pleased then you should stop playing. No one is forcing anyone to play a game they don’t like or believe is overpriced.

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If you prefer, you could switch to single player games. $20-$60 for usually about 12 hours of entertainment. I'd rather pay $15 for unlimited play, but to each his own.

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I'd prefer they remove flying altogether, but that's just me. I'm happy with Pathfinder working the way it does.

I wouldn’t mind that. Flying really tends to make the world feel small. I know it will never happen though. Too many people think that flying is an important part of the game and would scream out if they didn’t get it at some point.

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Theres actually a good reason why those things are not in launch. Competitive people would feel forced to powerlevel and not enjoy the world, since the first players could potentially get an advantage.

This too. As someone that used to powerlevel for said purpose I enjoy gated content. Now that I’m older and have a family the gated content allows me to stay competitive without having to sacrifice my family and work life.

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Um, new raids have always been there from launch? Except for maybe the last 2 or 3 carebear expansions.





There is always someone spewing this crap. Don't like it, don't play it is a falicious argument. If there's something about the game I disagree with I'll bloody well say it and your response adds nothing valuable to the discussion.



And that is a travesty.

I would love to know why raids being delayed is a travesty and how “don’t pay” is an invalid argument. No one is forcing you to play. If you no longer enjoy the game then you should stop paying and no longer play. It’s really that quite simple. If you continue to play then you are accepting the game for what it is. If you continue to play a game you don’t enjoy then I would suggest trying some new games.

[Saverem]

No class balance at launch
No raids at launch
No allied races at launch
No mythic+ at launch
No PvP seasons at launch
No flying at launch

And they're asking us to fork out an additional month's of subscription fees while these features are still locked until 8.1 and beyond? This expansion has cash grab written all over it. At this rate, patch 8.1 should be the official launch date of the expansion.

No one has a gun to your head forcing you to pay for it. If you don't like the deal then don't buy the expansion or sub to the game?

Maybe also consult an addiction help group because if you feel compelled to play something you don't even like, then you are addicted to it and have an addiction problem.

[Marrilaife]

No class balance at launch
No raids at launch
No allied races at launch
No mythic+ at launch
No PvP seasons at launch
No flying at launch

And they're asking us to fork out an additional month's of subscription fees while these features are still locked until 8.1 and beyond? This expansion has cash grab written all over it. At this rate, patch 8.1 should be the official launch date of the expansion.

I'd like to see the proof where does it say "raids, mythic+ and pvp season are delayed until 8.1", afaik they're delayed 3 weeks while 8.1 will come much later as they said "7.1 was too early in Legion".

Class balance? Never existed. Unfortunate, but true. There was always FOTM, broken OP specs and unplayable ones.

Allied races are gonna be spread across whole BFA, we already got half of them before it launched, then Mag'har / Dark Iron are rep gated but included in 8.0, and Zadalari / KT probably coming in 8.1, I would expect more in 8.2 and 8.3 (prepare for vulpera lolstorm).

Flying, well, they wanted to axe it completely, be glad it didn't go the way of weapon skill ranks and first aid.

[SmashNDash15]

There's always WoW tokens. You don't have to pay any real cash to play anymore. If it's not worth the cash investment, use your time to farm gold. If it's not worth your time investment, then stop playing. Be reasonable. The best way to tell a company their product is bad is to stop buying it.

[SirCowdog]

I honestly love flying being delayed. I honestly feel flying should lag an expansion behind.

For example flying in legion would be locked until BFA released and so on.

Why do you believe this?

And of course, if you dislike flight so much, don't use it?

Did you get it in Legion before the end of the expansion?

How does it actually effect you if other people fly and you don't?(PLEASE don't use the 'competition' reason).

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I wouldn’t mind that. Flying really tends to make the world feel small. I know it will never happen though. Too many people think that flying is an important part of the game and would scream out if they didn’t get it at some point.

Ok, so explain how the world "feels" larger without flying. This seems like a purely subjective, personal point of view. Some people could easily say that the world "feels" more immersive WITH flying and be just as correct as what you just said. Who is right?

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There's always WoW tokens. You don't have to pay any real cash to play anymore. If it's not worth the cash investment, use your time to farm gold. If it's not worth your time investment, then stop playing. Be reasonable. The best way to tell a company their product is bad is to stop buying it.

Farming gold for WoW tokens is pretty much the LEAST efficient way to pay for the game. Unless you work in some country/state where you make less than $7.50 and hour, or can make the price of the gold token in two hours, you're better off just staying at work an extra 120 minutes over the course of a month.

[Thenatural]

So much for being rational.

OK, second example. Every 4 months WoW costs you like another expansion despite releasing 1/10 portion of it at most.

If you think $50 every other year and $15 a month isn't good value for an MMO then you're either incredibly dumb or trolling. I bet you pre-order EA games.