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  1. #41
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    bm number tuning plx..

  2. #42
    Pandaren Monk cocomen2's Avatar
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    just dont play shamans+priests blizz didnt care about them, all others is good.
    Please, there a perfect example of hypocritical thinking:
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    If Tinkers had anything to do with Hunters, but they don’t. Unlike Bards which are linked to Rogues.

  3. #43
    Deleted
    i dont get why blizz had to go full 180 on the artifact weapons and abilities deal. The classes were obv redone with the artifacts in mind, and it makes 0 sense to remove them just like that. Sure remove the weapons, but how hard would it be to write up a bullshit story about how we could inherit the abilities of the artifacts? I mean some classes even got them anyway ffs, how hard would it be to just do that, and use that as a template for the new changes they were gonna make in bfa.

  4. #44
    Bloodsail Admiral Allenseiei's Avatar
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    It's not like this is the first or last expansion where classes were launched in a controversial state. People dont remember WotLK? I do... Oh boy!

  5. #45
    TBC class design, where Warlocks spammed shadowbolts, geared Fury topped meters with auto-attack + Bloodthirst, there was one AoE tank, and Shamans were nothing but buff bots (among other things). Why did we leave this behind, I wonder.

    There are few specs that I played in Legion that didn't see an improvement in BfA, at least when it comes to DPS. Arms, Fury, Destro, Demo (holy shit BfA Demo is awesome), Unholy, Frost DK, MM and BM all seem to be more fun or have improved in some way. Havoc and Enhancement seem to be the only two specs I played that saw a regression. Jury's still out on Shadow. That's a decent record overall if you consider that classes always play better at the end of the xpack with the boatloads of accumulated trinkets, Haste levels and other bonuses.

    Now I don't play healer or tank much so I can't comment, Prot warriors didn't seem like they changed too much.

    The only change I hate is the GCD one. Standing there like an idiot after I press Recklessness or Sweeping Strikes feels bad and brings absolutely nothing to the gameplay. Ironically that's also kinda part of the vaunted TBC class design OP is after for some reason.

  6. #46
    Stood in the Fire Synthium's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rezark View Post
    Except he isn't right at all. I would take BFA fury and Arms design over legion any day of the week. Same with the new Demo and Survival designs. Thats how opinions work and why opinions aren't invalid.
    So I am not right because you personally love BFA arms and fury (which were btw completely revamped a week ago on beta)? Good logic. Hey everyone, I am not right because Rezark really likes his warrior specs!

    Let me repeat myself - at the transition from WoD to Legion (the prepatch) the classes were for the most part overhauled. They were balanced around you having your artifact ability and every hole in your rotation to be filled with your traits. When you filled up your traits, that's the point where your spec started to make perfect sense.

    In BFA, initially we had almost no class changes, which means that all that happened is your entire artifact got removed, and you got nothing to replace it with, which highlighted a lot of flaws and obvious holes in majority of the specs. With artifact no longer there to fill those gaps many specs found they just don't work, which led Blizzard to reconsider classes. They are doing it as we speak.
    Burn it. BURN IT!

  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Putin-Chan View Post
    Besides Demonolgy or survival, are any specs actually better going from Legion to BfA?
    Maybe Assassination with haste scaling effecting poisons and bleeds? Fury for sure as it was reworked recently. Some say Unholy DK as well is good.

    Other than that it is pretty dire to be honest.

    I also have to chuckle at people arguing between WoD and Legion class design. Both were below the standard WoW used to have so it is like comparing which midget is taller. o.O

    Anyways, BFA class design is very dull compared to Legion and WoD because not only are classes pruned again but also the GCD changes. Only Fury/Frost DK have been redesigned due the GCD changes as far as I know or remember.
    Last edited by Mafic; 2018-06-17 at 04:06 AM.

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by Sithalos View Post
    I'd say Fury is now, after the recent changes. Maybe Unholy too.
    Arms as well
    Cheerful lack of self-preservation

  9. #49
    My classes(es) feel great. Thinning the herd? Seems fine.

  10. #50
    Beta to me was really boring (testing) but I haven't played for ages now.
    Disarm now correctly removes the targets’ arms.

  11. #51
    Pandaren Monk cocomen2's Avatar
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    1) BM bad = all talents is boring pile of ... old skills-talents that no one use like that "Stampede" shitiest skill in hunter kit.
    2) BM OP, BM hunter designer is lazzy as hell - so they took all boring skills and add them crazzy amount of damage . (and ppl just dont care if they play boring-shity spec, they wona lazzy TOP dps /petattack and be afk).

    BM was best at MOP times, since then its come to be boring as HELL.

    Now just lets see talents in BFA for BM :
    1)"Venomous Bite", "Killer Cobra","Spitting Cobra" - Does spec now snake centred???, 3 snake theme talents and NONE of them a poison?
    2)"Animal Companion"+"Dire Beast" in same row HELL NO, Dire beast must be baselane skill already gosh.
    3)"Trailblazer" - so boring that no one gona pick it, just make it bold +10% move speed increase.(at all times)
    4)"Aspect of Beast" - is it realy powerful 100 lvl talent? +% passive boost ( no shiny new skills with cool animation?)BBBoring.
    Please, there a perfect example of hypocritical thinking:
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    If Tinkers had anything to do with Hunters, but they don’t. Unlike Bards which are linked to Rogues.

  12. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by cocomen2 View Post
    1) BM bad = all talents is boring pile of ... old skills-talents that no one use like that "Stampede" shitiest skill in hunter kit.
    2) BM OP, BM hunter designer is lazzy as hell - so they took all boring skills and add them crazzy amount of damage . (and ppl just dont care if they play boring-shity spec, they wona lazzy TOP dps /petattack and be afk).

    BM was best at MOP times, since then its come to be boring as HELL.

    Now just lets see talents in BFA for BM :
    1)"Venomous Bite", "Killer Cobra","Spitting Cobra" - Does spec now snake centred???, 3 snake theme talents and NONE of them a poison?
    2)"Animal Companion"+"Dire Beast" in same row HELL NO, Dire beast must be baselane skill already gosh.
    3)"Trailblazer" - so boring that no one gona pick it, just make it bold +10% move speed increase.(at all times)
    4)"Aspect of Beast" - is it realy powerful 100 lvl talent? +% passive boost ( no shiny new skills with cool animation?)BBBoring.
    BM is better now than it was is legion. In legion it was literally braindead. It gained buttons and complexity on the beta.

  13. #53
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Understarmor View Post
    you are actually wrong, which I do see quite a lot on these forums....lol
    Nah... i'm not. But what do i care what some random says. I will be the one enjoying the game afterall, and you will be the bitter one. So, have fun with that.
    Don't worry, when a youtuber starts singing a different tune, you will aswell. That's what you do afterall.
    Last edited by mmoc80be7224cc; 2018-06-17 at 06:49 AM.

  14. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by Dizson View Post
    It seems like everyone's concern and why people are not going to buy BfA or drop it fast is because of class design, the game came to be a HoTS/Diablo type clone in term of class design, where you spam 4 spells and these spells are realy boring. The fact that class design/balance has been objectively shit for 3 exp says something. Why can't we just get back to BC/WoTLK level skills?
    The same BC where dps classes spammed their one spell? It's more complex now than it was then...

  15. #55
    LGN's Alpha was the first time I saw streamers literally going,
    "What the fuck has Blizzard done?!"
    I've seen them say: "I'm not quite sure I understand this change,"
    but never before have I seen a: "WTF is this bullshit?" kind of reaction.

    Gameplay was in a pretty solid place at the end WOD.
    Some classes needed some tweaking, some specs needed small changes.
    Balancing was badly needed as some specs were way behind.
    But the gameplay itself was in a mostly solid place.

    I have no idea WTF they did for LGN in many cases.
    Some classes, I understand and even agree with the changes.
    A few classes are even better than they were in WOD.
    But others, it's like .. holy WTF happened here?

    I was hoping they'd fix those WTF cases but it doesn't sound like it.
    (I was invited to the alpha but haven't been able to run it at all and filed error reports to no avail so I can't see for myself. All I can do is read/watch what other people are saying.)

  16. #56
    They couldn't even be bothered to finish shamans or priests for launch and those classes have to wait until 8.1. There's definitely a problem with the class design team.

  17. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by Nemmar View Post
    Classes are fine.

    Aslong as they have interesting sets/talents on that azerite gear.
    This was my first concern when they said no more tier sets. I didn't mind tier being gone but I wanted fun and interesting item effects. Sadly, we aren't getting that or any real gameplay-changing items/azerite traits, so... yeah.

    This is why they realized they done fucked up royally. Balance Druid was, and I shit you not, going to be spamming a filler spell for 70-80% of its rotation. Just 2 or so weeks ago, they get the largest amount of changes one could say they obtained but being just shy of an "overhaul". It's so borderline close to an overhaul that I'm tempted to just call it an overhaul. They've also been doing this with a handful of other specs too. It goes to show you that they realized they really fucked up this beta and they even said "some specs will be massively changed in 8.1".

    Now what's worse is on top of the class/spec design issues, we also have a lack of content issue. You might argue that this line of thinking is insane since it's "Legion with slightly more stuff", but that's inherently my problem. Every expansion has to have a fun and continuously doable feature to one-up the last one. Legion had M+ and World Quests, one amazingly positive and great feature, and the other just being "better dailies", but both are good features overall. BfA is bringing Island Expeditions, which are likely to only exist in this expansion (especially with the whole ISLAND theme we have going), and Warfronts, which looks like a shittier version of the Broken Shore buildings mixed with non-PvP Scenario faction fighting. Yeah, a SHITTIER version of the Broken Shore buildings. I did just say that. Neither of these features are going to be huge and remain going forward. I also don't see any long-term relevance in the expeditions, outside of designing Azerite to be shitty and requiring these expeditions to get them in large quantities (i.e., forcing us to do content that isn't necessarily fun).

    So yeah, there's some huge concerns when a lot of specs are still virtually unplayable or just boring as shit to play, and we have virtually no meaningful new content to do besides the usual stuff (new dungeons/raids, etc). I live for trying new systems and content in this game, but BfA is looking like WoD 2.0 in that regard.
    Last edited by Polarthief; 2018-06-17 at 07:14 AM.
    Still wondering why I play this game.
    I'm a Rogue and I also made a spreadsheet for the Order Hall that is updated for BfA.

  18. #58
    Over 9000! Kithelle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by infinitemeridian View Post
    The only specs that need work are:

    enhance
    elemental
    shadow
    guardian
    arcane

    Everything else is fine - people really need to take all these "classes are bad" posts with a grain of salt, because 90% of them are referring to the above specs. Call me naive, but 31/36 specs in a good state is nothing to scoff at.
    So basically Shaman is back in the dark ages where if you play it you're only wanted if you played a healer?

    If something is so messed up that literally a whole classes DPS specs are worthless then someone needs to lose their job.

    I love Shaman and this is really pissing me off...I fucking hate Ion. Seems like his goals are more focused on trolling people than actually fixing problem areas of the game.

  19. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Polarthief View Post
    This was my first concern when they said no more tier sets. I didn't mind tier being gone but I wanted fun and interesting item effects. Sadly, we aren't getting that or any real gameplay-changing items/azerite traits, so... yeah.

    This is why they realized they done fucked up royally. Balance Druid was, and I shit you not, going to be spamming a filler spell for 70-80% of its rotation. Just 2 or so weeks ago, they get the largest amount of changes one could say they obtained but being just shy of an "overhaul". It's so borderline close to an overhaul that I'm tempted to just call it an overhaul. They've also been doing this with a handful of other specs too. It goes to show you that they realized they really fucked up this beta and they even said "some specs will be massively changed in 8.1".

    Now what's worse is on top of the class/spec design issues, we also have a lack of content issue. You might argue that this line of thinking is insane since it's "Legion with slightly more stuff", but that's inherently my problem. Every expansion has to have a fun and continuously doable feature to one-up the last one. Legion had M+ and World Quests, one amazingly positive and great feature, and the other just being "better dailies", but both are good features overall. BfA is bringing Island Expeditions, which are likely to only exist in this expansion (especially with the whole ISLAND theme we have going), and Warfronts, which looks like a shittier version of the Broken Shore buildings mixed with non-PvP Scenario faction fighting. Yeah, a SHITTIER version of the Broken Shore buildings. I did just say that. Neither of these features are going to be huge and remain going forward. I also don't see any long-term relevance in the expeditions, outside of designing Azerite to be shitty and requiring these expeditions to get them in large quantities (i.e., forcing us to do content that isn't necessarily fun).

    So yeah, there's some huge concerns when a lot of specs are still virtually unplayable or just boring as shit to play, and we have virtually no meaningful new content to do besides the usual stuff (new dungeons/raids, etc). I live for trying new systems and content in this game, but BfA is looking like WoD 2.0 in that regard.
    Ion said that the raid level azerite gear will have set bonus like effects. So, wait and see. The only effects we got so far are from leveling gear.
    Also, yeah some specs are in better shape than others. But they are all functional in a level where you can enjoy them without needing an artifact weapon or legendary. The raid level Azerite gear will hopefully give us the variety needed after that.
    Last edited by mmoc80be7224cc; 2018-06-17 at 07:48 AM.

  20. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by Nemmar View Post
    Classes are fine.

    Aslong as they have interesting sets/talents on that azerite gear.

    A lot of people lack vision. Legion was in a terrible state. BfA is in a good state. The classes do look a bit on the basic side baseline, but the talents give it more complexity if you so wish. Add the azerite bonuses on top of it and you got varied and playable classes that don't depend on the added system to function like they did in Legion.

    Btw, as far as being 3 or 4 buttons in the main rotation, it's always been the case. It is not new.
    Legion classes were already not great, BfA is basically those same classes without artifacts/legendaries to prop them up.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Nemmar View Post
    Ion said that the raid level azerite gear will have set bonus like effects. So, wait and see. The only effects we got so far are from leveling gear.
    Also, yeah some specs are in better shape than others. But they are all functional in a level where you can enjoy them without needing an artifact weapon or legendary. The raid level Azerite gear will hopefully give us the variety needed after that.
    We're less than 2 months from launch. Them not showing raid azerite traits is super worrying, considering the first T19 bonus iterations were datamined 6 months before Legion launch(so a year before they became obtainable, whereas BfA's "tier bonuses" will be available after about 1 month of the expansion being out)
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