Should children be separated from adults when detained for illegally immigrating?

[Ahhdurr]

That is not the intention here good sir, but to get to the bottom of the issue.

No. It is.

[Wermys]

https://www.vox.com/2018/4/13/172290...ants-pay-taxes

Look, I am against separating children from there parents, but that article is not complete. Did you ever think HOW those illegals pay taxes? A lot of time its through a stolen identity. That stolen identity is used for them to be able to work in stores like Walmart Home Depot etc. So what happens is that the social security number they stole shows taxes paid to the irs. But guess what. The person who is doing this claims 5 exemptions and pays nothing at all on the taxes accept for the bare minimum. But what happens when tax season comes around? Well the irs ends up doing an audit because they will see that you did your taxes but failed to report the additional income. So then you have to start a dog and pony show with the irs that takes MONTHS to get the issue resolved. So yes they are paying taxes but not as much as what that vox article is actually showing. Mind you, I have nothing against legal immigrants. And I think what is happening is reprehensible to the children however at the same time I have absolutely no sympathy in shipping there asses out asap either. With that being said. I am extremely open to a work visa program or even widening availability for immigration because I believe we don't let enough immigrants legally into the country in the first place. I just despise illegals because they are cutting in front of people who wait up to a decade to immigrate. It's not fair for me to go to a Somali who followed proper procedures and is waiting to get there parents into the country while someone comes across the border itself without permission.

[Dys]

Separated while detained, reunited when set free or deported. Leaving a child with a desperate adult in a desperate situation is never a good idea, even if it's the parent(s). However, they came as a unit, were arrested as a unit, should be taken through the same process as a unit, and discharged or removed as a unit. Having situations where a parent is deported while their child remains detained is disgusting.

[McCulloch]

Look, I am against separating children from there parents, but that article is not complete. Did you ever think HOW those illegals pay taxes? A lot of time its through a stolen identity. That stolen identity is used for them to be able to work in stores like Walmart Home Depot etc. So what happens is that the social security number they stole shows taxes paid to the irs. But guess what. The person who is doing this claims 5 exemptions and pays nothing at all on the taxes accept for the bare minimum. But what happens when tax season comes around? Well the irs ends up doing an audit because they will see that you did your taxes but failed to report the additional income. So then you have to start a dog and pony show with the irs that takes MONTHS to get the issue resolved. So yes they are paying taxes but not as much as what that vox article is actually showing. Mind you, I have nothing against legal immigrants. And I think what is happening is reprehensible to the children however at the same time I have absolutely no sympathy in shipping there asses out asap either. With that being said. I am extremely open to a work visa program or even widening availability for immigration because I believe we don't let enough immigrants legally into the country in the first place. I just despise illegals because they are cutting in front of people who wait up to a decade to immigrate. It's not fair for me to go to a Somali who followed proper procedures and is waiting to get there parents into the country while someone comes across the border itself without permission.

Don't take my word for it.

https://www.theatlantic.com/business...-taxes/499604/

Stephen Goss, the chief actuary of the Social Security Administration, estimates that about 1.8 million immigrants were working with fake or stolen Social Security cards in 2010, and he expects that number to reach 3.4 million by 2040. He calculates that undocumented immigrants paid $13 billion into the retirement trust fund that year, and only got about $1 billion in benefits. “We estimate that earnings by unauthorized immigrants result in a net positive effect on Social Security financial status generally, and that this effect contributed roughly $12 billion to the cash flow of the program for 2010,” Gross concluded in a 2013 review of the impact of undocumented immigrants on Social Security.

[Zeta333]

He claimed that none of this started until Trump came along, which the existence of that article entirely refutes. If you have something to say about the details of the article that somehow makes him right, then feel free to share that.

so what if it started with trump, its still stopping children from being trafficked regardless.

[Nihilanth]

It's literally getting those numbers from the Social Security Administration. Here's another.

https://www.theatlantic.com/business...-taxes/499604/

Stephen Goss, the chief actuary of the Social Security Administration, estimates that about 1.8 million immigrants were working with fake or stolen Social Security cards in 2010, and he expects that number to reach 3.4 million by 2040. He calculates that undocumented immigrants paid $13 billion into the retirement trust fund that year, and only got about $1 billion in benefits. “We estimate that earnings by unauthorized immigrants result in a net positive effect on Social Security financial status generally, and that this effect contributed roughly $12 billion to the cash flow of the program for 2010,” Gross concluded in a 2013 review of the impact of undocumented immigrants on Social Security.

This doesn't even supports your argument, lol. 1.8 million out of what, 12 million illegals? The number of illegals contributing to SS is far less to the number of illegals not contributing; plus it is an estimate, plus SS is but a fraction of government spending. I'm talking about roads, hospitals, the military, the police, the fire departments and the millions of government employees being paid a living by my tax money.

Besides, when my neighbor pays his illegal employee in cash, he is taking SS into consideration, I'm sure.

[Mellrod]

if it is the law then yes

Just because it's the law doesn't always mean it's right.

[Pickynerd]

Just because it's the law doesn't always mean it's right.

That is a dangerous way of thinking, laws are to protect people.

No matter how you spin this Trump is going to be the bad guy, but Obama did the same thing and it was a-okay.

[MikeBogina]

Just because it's the law doesn't always mean it's right.

Whenever debating laws and what's right, always ask yourself... "What would Judge Dredd do?"

[Pickynerd]

No one actually cares about this. This is probably one of the biggest mass-concern-trolling campaigns lobbed out by the media/Democrats since Trump won the election. A sizable majority of Americans want our nation to remain a sovereign state with clearly defined borders and citizenship. Don't let the lunatics convince you otherwise.

Yeah, total anarchy.

[Wermys]

Don't take my word for it.

https://www.theatlantic.com/business...-taxes/499604/

Stephen Goss, the chief actuary of the Social Security Administration, estimates that about 1.8 million immigrants were working with fake or stolen Social Security cards in 2010, and he expects that number to reach 3.4 million by 2040. He calculates that undocumented immigrants paid $13 billion into the retirement trust fund that year, and only got about $1 billion in benefits. “We estimate that earnings by unauthorized immigrants result in a net positive effect on Social Security financial status generally, and that this effect contributed roughly $12 billion to the cash flow of the program for 2010,” Gross concluded in a 2013 review of the impact of undocumented immigrants on Social Security.

Not disputing they pay taxes. I am stating the damage they cause when they work because of the taxes they pay.

[moode]

This seems like a fairly reasonable article explaining the issue. https://www.nationalreview.com/2018/...ids-at-border/.

I live in Honduras (US citizen) so I'm very familiar with this issue as I know people who have made the attempt to get to the US (not with kids though because most here know the trip through Mexico is too dangerous). I have a friend here whose cousin was killed in Mexico while he was trying to get to the border, I paid the fee to get his body returned to Honduras. Anyway, I'm not going to argue who is right or wrong. The problem is the laws on the books are what they are and you are either a nation of laws or you aren't. Trump's problem is he's trying to enforce the laws that haven't been enforced in some time and the laws are pretty stupid, but again they are the law. The laws need to be changed but Trump can't do that.

If congress was actually concerned with this they would come to the table and find a bipartisan solution but they are happy to use it for political gain so nothing will be done.

[Vynestra]

So to people voting yes -

You think it's fine to do something illegal and lose your child?

So you speed, you broke the law, you lose your child, that's fine?

Because that is your justification here.

People who illegally immigrate don't go to jail for years, they get deported back where they came from.

So I hope next time you speed, you get your children taken from you, and nothing happens but people saying its okay...because...that's your justification.

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That is a dangerous way of thinking, laws are to protect people.

No matter how you spin this Trump is going to be the bad guy, but Obama did the same thing and it was a-okay.

Whataboutism is alive and well I see.

What if people didn't support Obama doing it, but people still don't support it, and suddenly it's a-okay when Obama did it?

Firstly you don't even know if those people supported Obama doing it, secondly that admin is over, in the past, in the history books. Let's not sit here and argue about Obama and talk about who IS in charge and who CAN make changes.

[Pickynerd]

So to people voting yes -

You think it's fine to do something illegal and lose your child?

So you speed, you broke the law, you lose your child, that's fine?

Because that is your justification here.

People who illegally immigrate don't go to jail for years, they get deported back where they came from.

So I hope next time you speed, you get your children taken from you, and nothing happens but people saying its okay...because...that's your justification.

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Whataboutism is alive and well I see.

What if people didn't support Obama doing it, but people still don't support it, and suddenly it's a-okay when Obama did it?

Firstly you don't even know if those people supported Obama doing it, secondly that admin is over, in the past, in the history books. Let's not sit here and argue about Obama and talk about who IS in charge and who CAN make changes.

Where were these threads when Obama was in office?

Over 50% of prisoners in our county were parents.

Should they get a "get out of jail free card"?

[endersblade]

The law should be followed and enforced with immigration. It can be a bitter pill to swallow, but is necessary.

This. If you don't like it, write your congressman. It's the law. If the kid was born to illegal parents but on US soil, the kid is a legal US citizen, the parents are not. If they get deported, the child can't get deported with them because the child is a US citizen. Parents should've thought about that before they had the fucking thing. I have zero sympathy for this rash of posts being made about this. It's plain and simple, cut and clear, and it is the law. Call people Nazis all you want. And for the record, this shit has been going on LONG since before Sir Hairpiece became our president. I don't support the guy in any way, but I find it silly that people are pointing fingers at him like it's his fault.

[I Push Buttons]

So to people voting yes -

You think it's fine to do something illegal and lose your child?

So you speed, you broke the law, you lose your child, that's fine?

When you go to jail, you lose your children just as much as these people lose their children... They don't send your children to jail with you...

Do you not understand what is happening in these situations? They aren't arbitrarily separating parents from their children... The parents are going to jail because entering the country illegally, despite years of lax enforcement, is actually a crime and they are charged with and convicted of that crime.

Even with your absurd false equivalence of speeding that holds true... If you speed such that its reckless driving, a misdemeanor, you can go to jail and you will be in the same situation these people are in, you will be in jail and your kids will not be, and the exact same thing will happen, the state will try to place them with relatives and if that doesn't work in foster care until you get out of jail.

[MikeBogina]

You think it's fine to do something illegal and lose your child?

like murdering someone? like robbing someone? Like selling heroine? Yeah

So you speed, you broke the law, you lose your child, that's fine?

Where do you live that people speed and don't just get a ticket? Wait, do illegal immigrants just get a ticket for illegally entering the country?

People who illegally immigrate don't go to jail for years, they get deported back where they came from.

They shouldn't go to jail, they should just immediately get deported after a good beating and handed to the mexican authorities.

So I hope next time you speed, you get your children taken from you, and nothing happens but people saying its okay...because...that's your justification.

I hope next time you jaywalk, you get deported. seriously, illegal immigration =/= speeding

What if people didn't support Obama doing it, but people still don't support it, and suddenly it's a-okay when Obama did it?

Firstly you don't even know if those people supported Obama doing it, secondly that admin is over, in the past, in the history books.

It's not the unknown, everyday people that's the problem. It's the media bias that didn't care then, but care now. You're right to care about this then and now, but it makes people look stupid when they making mountains out of molehills because someone they dislike is doing.

Let's not sit here and argue about Obama and talk about who IS in charge and who CAN make changes.

Maybe you should have talked about it when Obama was in office... for 8 years. It's stupid to sit here and allow a liberal president you support to do things you don't support and then whine and complain when the next guy doesn't change it... just because you don't like it. In fact it amazes me how many people weren't aware of this when Obama was in office... like you virtue signalling wasn't in practice to anything he did.

[XangXu]

Some people see familiarity with what is happening in America...

Citizens of 18 years being kidnaped from their home in broad daylight...

Children being separated from their mothers...

Humans being put in camps because they flee death...

Maybe this will be the decade where America realizes just how delicate their precious democracy is, how easily it can be manipulated and exploited.

[Machismo]

So we should close all prisons, because freedom?

Why have laws in place to begin with? Should everyone be able to break the law, or just some people?

How can the US provide safety to asylum seekers, if the people they are running from can also cross the border?

I agree, the system is a mess, it shouldn't take years to become a citizen, Obama had 8 years of promise to work on this shit and did nothing with it. You can't just fix the problem by opening up borders.

Once again, I didn't say that. Laws that restrict actions that harm others are an inherent strengthening of freedom. Laws that restrict actions that do not harm others... are not. You haven't shown how crossing an invisible line in the desert harms others, especially since others do it legally all the time, so such a restriction s a net loss of freedom.

In less than two years, Trump has made the problem much, much worse.

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Sorry but your magical make believe land isnt how society works. Keep dreaming away.

I'm well aware there's plenty of people like you who despise freedom. I have no illusions that you are going to change your authoritarian beliefs, I'm merely enjoying pointing it out.

[Tackhisis]

were arrested as a unit, should be taken through the same process as a unit

Arrested even of the same sex are not processed as a unit for obvious reasons. And here we are talking about different ages and sexes.

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Citizens of 18 years being kidnaped from their home in broad daylight...

What are you talking about?

Humans being put in camps because they flee death...

You cannot flee from yourself. The death that threaten them in their homelands, comes from the seeds they are carrying in themselves. In their new country, they will be carefully replicating their original conditions. (Read about MS-13 terror in the US schools, for example.)