Classic update. It will be on 1.12 and it will be on battle.net :)

[Deleted]

Eh i will give it a month before people realise the shitstorm Vanilla was i played it but i enjoy the QoL changes currently in place alot more.

The current player base start complaining about raiding content a few weeks after release i doubt they are going to enjoy grinding months of Molten Core.

My 2 pence of course.

[Alkizon]

Sounds good.

As for the debuff slots, it already half a year ago since they were proposed a completely sane solution when each part of content is played on its unique (let's call them initial) conditions. If BRDs and MCs during their launch had 8 slots, then it will always (the entire time that this content exists in relaunch project) be like that, and if Nax had 16 slots, then it will have 16 slots there, but only inside it. I think that threats and talents mechanics could also be brought to a common denominator, but I'm not a programmer or a some kind of theoruicrafter to assert this with full confidence, therefore I will say that this is only IMO.

And last, but not least in importance (for me):

Toggle is fine for me yeah, I don't care at all if other people prefer to use different graphics as long as the original version is available as well.

Customization and appearance is part of RP gameplay, and control with client settings (not with in-game mechanics) over it violates rule of shared unique world in MMO. So - no toggles, only customization. Simple. If designers really did a good job in full accordance with old stuff, then it could be on discus. But since they are completely different, there's nothing to talk about here. From what I read, it's clear that they didn't change their attitude to this (no to gameplay change (rules), no to change in classic experience (models)). I am happy, but still more like this:

I honestly care more about them using the old animations and graphics than minor number tweaks. The first would really change the experience while the last would be mostly unnoticeable or even warranted.

And a big NO to that:

I do hope that the new models are available for those that want to use them. It wouldn't affect the experience of anyone that wants to see the original graphics. I just think they've done a lot of great work on updating models (especially in BfA), and would prefer to see those since I don't care for graphical nostalgia.

because according to facts above, statement isn't true.

ps. As for what NihilSustinet talked about - theoretically this is possible, but only on separate server taken with a closed cycle of progress. Another question is that it doesn't seem to be worth effort, because different people have different speed progress and trying to adjust for each one means fall into the same trap as retail did.

[Vineri]

Eh i will give it a month before people realise the shitstorm Vanilla was i played it but i enjoy the QoL changes currently in place alot more.

The current player base start complaining about raiding content a few weeks after release i doubt they are going to enjoy grinding months of Molten Core.

My 2 pence of course.

They know about the /2 /3 and /4 channels. I think they will still know about them /wink.

I think the players who want to enjoy Molten Core are a big target of this project? Or did you really think they would just give up so soon and gravitate to BFA? /rofl

[Deleted]

It will be fun to see whole content be done in 2 weeks because bosses even in naxx were killable in 20 people, everyone was bad in vanilla. One boss in legion has more mechanics than whole MC combined. it will be shitshow.

[Makatafinger]

IMHO I think they should only allow 8 debuff slots on anything from Blackwing Lair and before until they release the Zul'Gurub raid which is when they upped the debuffs from 8 to 16. At least make the beginning raids semi difficult by removing something that was there from the beginning.

Like others have stated, beginning raids are going to be a joke with the class talent revamps + 16 debuff slots.

Vanilla raids will be a joke because they are jokes compared to a simple Legion heroic dungeon.

People tend to forget this but when we started playing WoW, we were noobs. Difficulty of WoW came from unrealistic grinding time and stupid class designs. Raids and mechanics were new so we fucked up. But today, we won't. Seriously, in MC there are like 10 mechanics in total which are easy.

If you want to play vanilla, don't expect it to be hard like it was 15 years ago.

[PaterMDx]

Blizzard is not lazy, but some players are unreasonable motherfucking cunts. The idea is not to recreate the whole fucking period 2004-2006 exactly as it was, the idea is to recreate the classic game experience. For that you don't need some FUCKING RETARDED patch progression through all the FUCKING TERRIBLE GAMEPLAY cause by STUPID FUCKING BUGS and HORRIBLE TALENTS. Of course they would set on 1.12, because THEY ARE NOT INSANE.

As for originality, please go play only original games, see how that works. Listen only to original music. Then watch only original movies. You'll find yourself jerking off in front of a white wall...

you didnt got the point, nice.
what i wanted to say, i hope its simple enough.
"borrowing" ideas from people who "borrow" ideas 24/7 isnt bad.

[Echocho]

What catch-up gear? Are you refering to the dungeon tier set recolors? This is something that is serverside, not client side. So this is something that might not be there on release of classic.

Since they don't want to maintain two MMOs I think we should be prepared for everything being available at launch but content being tuned around that and gated in some fashion through quest lines or something to make sure you don't move on to the next tier until you're "ready".

The only exception really is ZG that's supposed to be an alternative for people who don't raid MC/BWL but it drop gear that's so good that it'll make MC/BWL easier, I'm not really sure how you could solve that. Maybe if they create a weekly or monthly quest that you need to do X number of times and after that ZG becomes unlocked for all your characters on that particular server.

[Deleted]

Vanilla raids will be a joke because they are jokes compared to a simple Legion heroic dungeon.

People tend to forget this but when we started playing WoW, we were noobs. Difficulty of WoW came from unrealistic grinding time and stupid class designs. Raids and mechanics were new so we fucked up. But today, we won't. Seriously, in MC there are like 10 mechanics in total which are easy.

If you want to play vanilla, don't expect it to be hard like it was 15 years ago.

Exactly. My friend starts to play on fresh new private vanilla server. after 6 weeks (including lvling) the guild is able to kill ragnaros under 2 mins with crap gear.

[arel00]

Vanilla raids will be a joke because they are jokes compared to a simple Legion heroic dungeon.

People tend to forget this but when we started playing WoW, we were noobs. Difficulty of WoW came from unrealistic grinding time and stupid class designs. Raids and mechanics were new so we fucked up. But today, we won't. Seriously, in MC there are like 10 mechanics in total which are easy.

If you want to play vanilla, don't expect it to be hard like it was 15 years ago.

Spot on, here's a cookie

Seriously people, vanilla WoW was NOT hard, not even Naxxramas. What it was, really, is a grind fest. Hours upon hours to farm specific gear, buffs, etc, on a personal level, and collecting enough players with <insert items> to form a raid.
Remember going back to Maraudon when AQ opened for nature res pieces? Now people already know, they'll be prepared before hitting 60.
Remember one of the most nightmarish fights, the Four Horsemen? The problem: having enough tanks that can't miss taunts.

Compare everything from vanilla to, say, heroic Kil'jaeden, and suddenly the old raids don't seem that scary anymore, do they?

[Grevmak]

Spot on, here's a cookie

Seriously people, vanilla WoW was NOT hard, not even Naxxramas. What it was, really, is a grind fest. Hours upon hours to farm specific gear, buffs, etc, on a personal level, and collecting enough players with <insert items> to form a raid.
Remember going back to Maraudon when AQ opened for nature res pieces? Now people already know, they'll be prepared before hitting 60.
Remember one of the most nightmarish fights, the Four Horsemen? The problem: having enough tanks that can't miss taunts.

Compare everything from vanilla to, say, heroic Kil'jaeden, and suddenly the old raids don't seem that scary anymore, do they?

Doesn't matter though. Most people who wanted Vanilla Servers know this as they're just playing on -insert currently well recieved Vanilla P server here- until Classic launches.

There's a good bunch of people who pretend to want Vanilla because of hype, but you always have these for every and any upcoming product so that's fine. Vanilla is what it is, and I'm glad Blizz will give peeps what they want: An authentic Vanilla experience that doesn't crash every now and then.

I'll gladly play a rogue for a while and durp around a bit until the hopefully releasing TBC server comes around and play a fuckton of that. TBC and Wotlk were awesome in their own regard, and I kind of miss them but most pservers of those are...Meh.

[Dudas]

I'll gladly play a rogue for a while and durp around a bit until the hopefully releasing TBC server comes around and play a fuckton of that. TBC and Wotlk were awesome in their own regard, and I kind of miss them but most pservers of those are...Meh.

Same here the main reason I will play classic is to have a toon that I can migrate when a BC server opens. I would quit retail for a BC server actually.

[epLe]

Decision to go 1.12 base is a huge let down... a spit in the face of people who really enjoyed Vanilla.¨

So none will ever know how "hard" MC or BWL really was again at the right patch levels.

They will only know the 1.12 version where player strength is quite different than what it should be.

[Echocho]

So none will ever know how "hard" MC or BWL really was again at the right patch levels.

They were pretty easy. Vanilla raiding didn't really start to have any sort of difficulty until late AQ40.

[Mackeith]

I think everyone is jumping a bit too much at the conclusion that 1.12 base equals no progressiveness at all, or at least no skill/talent progression for classes. The keyword here is base.

It could mean that the server will launch with everything in the 1.12 state, including Naxx open and all that, but it could also mean that the questing experience, honor system, various non-max level dungeon changes, profession levelling, etc. will be in a 1.12 state, while the end game, including class power, will still be progressive.

A good example would be the lvl 15/16 Defias Pillagers in Westfall. These used to cast Fireballs that did immense damage. I believe this damage was close to halved at some patch, is this a change that should be progressively introduced? In my opinion, no, and I believe this would 100% fall under what they mean by base. Will classes use 1.12 talents? well not sure if that would fall under 1.12 base. Remains to be seen I guess.

And in regards to all this chat about converting the old table data to the updated table format. Yeah, it's not just something you do overnight, however, assuming they still have the old vanilla tables stored somewhere, they're not going to be manually changing the values one by one. They're going to write a script(s) that does the conversion all in one go for everything. Now imagine if they have table data stored for each separate patch that was launched in vanilla (which is not unlikely see: version control), then table data for any given patch could be applied theoretically (I say theoretically because it depends how similar their data was represented in the 1.2 - 1.12 timeframe) by the press of a button. I work as a software dev so I have an inkling of understanding of these scenarios.

[Sabever]

I think everyone is jumping a bit too much at the conclusion that 1.12 base equals no progressiveness at all, or at least no skill/talent progression for classes. The keyword here is base.

It could mean that the server will launch with everything in the 1.12 state, including Naxx open and all that, but it could also mean that the questing experience, honor system, various non-max level dungeon changes, profession levelling, etc. will be in a 1.12 state, while the end game, including class power, will still be progressive.

A good example would be the lvl 15/16 Defias Pillagers in Westfall. These used to cast Fireballs that did immense damage. I believe this damage was close to halved at some patch, is this a change that should be progressively introduced? In my opinion, no, and I believe this would 100% fall under what they mean by base. Will classes use 1.12 talents? well not sure if that would fall under 1.12 base. Remains to be seen I guess.

And in regards to all this chat about converting the old table data to the updated table format. Yeah, it's not just something you do overnight, however, assuming they still have the old vanilla tables stored somewhere, they're not going to be manually changing the values one by one. They're going to write a script(s) that does the conversion all in one go for everything. Now imagine if they have table data stored for each separate patch that was launched in vanilla (which is not unlikely see: version control), then table data for any given patch could be applied theoretically (I say theoretically because it depends how similar their data was represented in the 1.2 - 1.12 timeframe) by the press of a button. I work as a software dev so I have an inkling of understanding of these scenarios.

I agree with this post. 1.12 really means they are going to start with fleshed out features like the talent trees, linked flight paths, zone question etc. It is almost certainly going to be progressive from the perspective of releasing certain dungeons, raids and BGs.

[Erwarth]

MC =/= Naxxramus ,, not sure what you are getting at?

Can you please spell NaxxramAS correctly

I'm all triggered.

[Eleccybubb]

I think they should release the original T2 armor models and not update them until AQ comes out like they did back then just for the reaction from people.

[RoKPaNda]

Sad. We'll never get to re-live the days of the arcanite reaper. Oh well. One less thing I have to buy/pay attention to.

[Projectmars]

Couldn't they just retune MC and BWL? Keep the mechanics the same, just touch up the numbers a bit so they are somewhat of a challenge in a world where people do MC with DM/ZG gear available.

Keep Classic the same. #NoChanges

[Mackeith]

I think a more important question to raise, since we now know they'll be using the modern back-end, including having a client that can recognise modern graphic cards. Does that definitively mean they'll be using the current retail WoW client, or are they using an altered version of it? What has been confirmed is that we're definitely not going to be running the original old 1.12 client.

Now that that's established, what does this mean in terms of graphical fidelity within the game? I'm pretty sure they could control which mesh to spawn when displaying characters within the game world. But as an educated guess, I would assume most of the static scenery are rendered directly by the client, and does not speak with the server in regards to it. What does this mean for things like old Orgrimmar? If they're importing the old city structure in to a modified new client, then are they also going to be adding the option to play with the old graphics for everything else? are they going to enforce it even?

How tightly linked are the new character animations with the current skill data structure?. Is it going to be worth the effort to potentially fix this linking, as the old character model didn't have near the amount of animation possibilities that the new ones have?

The list of questions go on. Like many have said though, I personally really appreciated the post made by the devs, hope more will follow sooner rather than later.