Should children be separated from adults when detained for illegally immigrating?

[Warning]

The law should be followed and enforced with immigration. It can be a bitter pill to swallow, but is necessary.

Wrong, unjust and inhumane laws should not be followed. If you haven't learned the lesson yet read transcripts of the Neurenberg trials, they dealt with this issue and helped shape international customary law. What you are witnessing today is a black page in American history being written. Just like the internment of innocent Japanese during the world war, this period will be a long lasting source of embarrassment.

[Adam Jensen]

The law should be followed and enforced with immigration. It can be a bitter pill to swallow, but is necessary.

And we can do that without being heartless bastards.

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I suggest we take the children of criminals into jail as well. Heck, take the entire family. We don't want to separate families, after all.

Oh you mean, AFTER conviction?

These immigrants aren't convicted yet.

[Tackhisis]

These immigrants aren't convicted yet.

It doesn't matter. They are detained to be forcibly removed.

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Wrong, unjust and inhumane laws should not be followed.

What exactly is "injust and inhumane" in deporting non-citizens?

[Daelak]

Or, perhaps you should be allowed to bring your child into prison with you.

And instead of prisons for entire families being built by for profit corporations that will gladly fleece DHS and CBP, just let them enter the US with visas and start the naturalization process.

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Look, I am against separating children from there parents, but that article is not complete. Did you ever think HOW those illegals pay taxes? A lot of time its through a stolen identity. That stolen identity is used for them to be able to work in stores like Walmart Home Depot etc. So what happens is that the social security number they stole shows taxes paid to the irs. But guess what. The person who is doing this claims 5 exemptions and pays nothing at all on the taxes accept for the bare minimum. But what happens when tax season comes around? Well the irs ends up doing an audit because they will see that you did your taxes but failed to report the additional income. So then you have to start a dog and pony show with the irs that takes MONTHS to get the issue resolved. So yes they are paying taxes but not as much as what that vox article is actually showing. Mind you, I have nothing against legal immigrants. And I think what is happening is reprehensible to the children however at the same time I have absolutely no sympathy in shipping there asses out asap either. With that being said. I am extremely open to a work visa program or even widening availability for immigration because I believe we don't let enough immigrants legally into the country in the first place. I just despise illegals because they are cutting in front of people who wait up to a decade to immigrate. It's not fair for me to go to a Somali who followed proper procedures and is waiting to get there parents into the country while someone comes across the border itself without permission.

More ignorance. As an illegal immigrant, you can get a SSN without citizenship. TIN pays into ss and Medicare, you also pay federal income taxes.

Its like none of you 'concerned citizens' know what the fuck you are talking about.

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Oh, but it is the same argument. I'm paying taxes to fund government services for me, my family and my fellow Americans. When an illegal comes here and benefits for the same services without contributing to the system, he is stealing from me, my family and my fellow Americans.

Which is a lie, since even immigrants that work for cash when they first get here pay property taxes, sales taxes, and eventually federal taxes when they get a tax ID number.

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Sure, the IRS knows the whereabouts of all the illegals in the country and is diligently collecting taxes from them.

Besides, Vox? haha

Yes they do, since all immigrants apply for a TIN, which will eventually become their SSN.

Conservative braintrust is shining through today people.

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It doesn't matter. They are detained to be forcibly removed.

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What exactly is "injust and inhumane" in deporting non-citizens?

Separating them and detaining them for an indefinite amount of time. That's more akin to an animal control, not a democracy.

[Tackhisis]

Separating them and detaining them for an indefinite amount of time.

Nope, until there is an opportunity to remove them.

more akin to an animal control, not a democracy.

Democracy is a form of a political regime in a state, it has nothing to do with prisons, detention, and removal.

[Draco-Onis]

It doesn't matter. They are detained to be forcibly removed.

They are detained to be processed since these now include asylum seekers.

[Daelak]

Nope, until there is an opportunity to remove them.
Democracy is a form of a political regime in a state, it has nothing to do with prisons, detention, and removal.

Which could be months if not years. They would then try other routes, eventually getting in the country.

Democracies afford their rights to any and all humans that come into contact with them. Treating people like animals are reserved for authoritarian police states.

[Ghostpanther]

Wrong, unjust and inhumane laws should not be followed. If you haven't learned the lesson yet read transcripts of the Neurenberg trials, they dealt with this issue and helped shape international customary law. What you are witnessing today is a black page in American history being written. Just like the internment of innocent Japanese during the world war, this period will be a long lasting source of embarrassment.

Not wrong since it is being done lawfully. Congress is in charge of making laws, so if the public outcry is great enough, they should change the law or correct them. And comparing this to what the Nazi's did is ludicrous.

The Government admitted it was wrong what they did with the Japanese US citizens and apologized and awarded them compensation. I do not think the law at the time said they could do that. And you do know this same thing happened under Obama?

[Hif]

You can seek it all you want, but you still have to be checked for child trafficking.

Again prove that based on us laws. Right now its the us govt that is trafficking in children

[Ghostpanther]

And we can do that without being heartless bastards.

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And we can change the laws for immigration, directing how they are to be conducted. As of now, the laws are what they are and should be enforced. Blame Congress for their inaction on immigration.

[Fahrenheit]

Naw. It's punishing the child for the crime of the parent. Seems an unnecessary thing to do for the "shining city on the hill".

[Mayhem]

This thread and the opinions presented by the people, who think it's cool to separate children from their parents because it's not against the law, are disgusting. It's shocking to see this happening.

[Scathbais]

Two thousand kids are being housed in a detention camp and you are busy deciding who is to blame. Usually we fix the problem before we start passing the buck around.

The problem is that they are illegally entering our country. The solution is to prevent them from doing so.

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Yeah, it kinda does; I had to earn my right to vote on merit, you didn't. Come at me.

"The majority of Americans" can shove it. This is one instance where ethics overrides what a bunch of feckless idiots in the South and Midwest happen to think.

"ethics" is a relative term and doesn't trump Federal law.

[Draco-Onis]

"ethics" is a relative term and doesn't trump Federal law.

It's not a law it is justice department policy again there is no federal or state law that demands we split children from parents. Trump literally change this with one phone call to Jeff Sessions.

[Scathbais]

Separating them and detaining them for an indefinite amount of time. That's more akin to an animal control, not a democracy.

What exactly does Democracy have to do with enforcing Federal law and making sure illegal aliens (of all ages) aren't released into the US when they haven't earned the right to be here?

Not sure what your definition of "Democracy" is but it doesn't have anything to do with a bleeding-heart overriding the rule of law.

[NYC17]

Not wrong since it is being done lawfully. Congress is in charge of making laws, so if the public outcry is great enough, they should change the law or correct them. And comparing this to what the Nazi's did is ludicrous.

The Government admitted it was wrong what they did with the Japanese US citizens and apologized and awarded them compensation. I do not think the law at the time said they could do that. And you do know this same thing happened under Obama?

It'snot a comparison. It's a similarity. That's in arguable. So inarguable in fact, that you have to twist the argument into a "comparison" in order to make your defense of it appear less vile.

They have adopted similar tactics. Validity in your argument has been found wanting.

[tyrlaan]

What a shitshow of a thread.

For starters:

It has become a major issue lately, that apparently the situation on the Mexico/US border has turned into a literal holocaust, with children being ripped from their parents arms and taken away to 'the showers' never to be heard from again. Should we be separating families in such a brutal manner, or should we allow children to be held with adults in detention facilities?

To the part I put in bold - um, no. Yes, what we are doing is terrible and immoral. No, it is not a "literal holocaust", unless you have evidence that we are killing the kids.


With regards to the topic
* No, we shouldn't be doing it. It's immoral and cruel.
* No, it's not our "law", it's just a policy our government has elected to enact.
* No, this isn't the fault of the Democrats, there is absolute zero factual evidence to support this claim. Rather this is Trump's way of turning child separation into a bargaining chip (remember, this isn't the law)
* If this is the best deterrent our government could come up with, our government is a pile of shit.
* It's highly debatable that all this focus on illegal immigration is even necessary

Further points of consideration
* How many people in support of this would have been frothing at the mouth with anger if Obama did it?
* Why are we more worried about keeping people out that are seeking asylum than keeping our children safe from gun violence?
* If this were happening at our Northern border, would people be as okay with it?

[Daelak]

The problem is that they are illegally entering our country. The solution is to prevent them from doing so.

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"ethics" is a relative term and doesn't trump Federal law.

Save for a mutli-decadal influx of private and public investment into south and central America, and a radically different change in how we treat drug use and abuse in the US, that will not change.

[GennGreymane]

A 4 Year old was left to sit her own feces and the Agents at the camp did nothing for 3 days. The only reason this was solved was because a 16 year old stepped up and took care of her. So not only are US Government Officials seperating young Children from their parents but they refuse to care for them.
https://www.businessinsider.de/immig...18-6?r=US&IR=T


It is only a matter of time before these kids become victims of sexual predators.

from another thread

[Daelak]

What exactly does Democracy have to do with enforcing Federal law and making sure illegal aliens (of all ages) aren't released into the US when they haven't earned the right to be here?

Not sure what your definition of "Democracy" is but it doesn't have anything to do with a bleeding-heart overriding the rule of law.

That all human beings, not just citizens, are not treated like animals.
Really shines a light on your character and how you view the world, also shows me how easily some are sucked into the nightmarish world of right wing rhetoric.