Battle for Azeroth Alpha/Beta General Discussion

[Steampunkette]

You could explain the Astranaar issue that way, however the only way you could have the Furbolg issue solved would require alternative realities because the two scenarios contradict each other as they occur at the same time in the same place completely differently.

I was actually riffing on the Evil Demon thought problem of René Descartes. But you could also make it the "Brain in a Jar" problem is you prefer. Essentially: Everything you see is an illusion created by someone else and there's no real way to discern that false reality from a true reality.

Which means both scenarios happening at the same time is not a problem, since each side is experiencing their own, unique, hallucinations which do not need to share the same details in any meaningful way.

I still think the truth is gonna be closer to "Bad Writing" with no further explanation, but it's not like this philosophical problem hasn't appeared throughout the media for over a decade. Everything from Buffy the Vampire Slayer being convinced she's not -really- a vampire slayer and is actually a girl in a mental institution, to Captain Ben Sisko being coached to believe that the entire plot of Deep Space Nine was just a story he came up with, to the entire goddamned PLOT of "The Good Place" being literally about evil demons manipulating a person's perceptions of reality to convince them they're not actually in Hell.

[Chickat]

Did that build ever go live?

[Raetary]

No more world trees to live on please, teldrassil being gone is a good thing for nelves imo.

but how can you have a fantasy game if your franchises wood elves dont have a gigantic magical tree to live in?

/PlantMoreWorldTrees
/FandralDidNothingWrong

[The Stormbringer]

I was actually riffing on the Evil Demon thought problem of René Descartes. But you could also make it the "Brain in a Jar" problem is you prefer. Essentially: Everything you see is an illusion created by someone else and there's no real way to discern that false reality from a true reality.

Which means both scenarios happening at the same time is not a problem, since each side is experiencing their own, unique, hallucinations which do not need to share the same details in any meaningful way.

I still think the truth is gonna be closer to "Bad Writing" with no further explanation, but it's not like this philosophical problem hasn't appeared throughout the media for over a decade. Everything from Buffy the Vampire Slayer being convinced she's not -really- a vampire slayer and is actually a girl in a mental institution, to Captain Ben Sisko being coached to believe that the entire plot of Deep Space Nine was just a story he came up with, to the entire goddamned PLOT of "The Good Place" being literally about evil demons manipulating a person's perceptions of reality to convince them they're not actually in Hell.

Whoever is running my 'Brain in a Jar' experiment needs to change things around. Can I get a little more excitement? Maybe a new body and setting? Please?

[Drekmar]

I was actually riffing on the Evil Demon thought problem of René Descartes. But you could also make it the "Brain in a Jar" problem is you prefer. Essentially: Everything you see is an illusion created by someone else and there's no real way to discern that false reality from a true reality.

Which means both scenarios happening at the same time is not a problem, since each side is experiencing their own, unique, hallucinations which do not need to share the same details in any meaningful way.

I still think the truth is gonna be closer to "Bad Writing" with no further explanation, but it's not like this philosophical problem hasn't appeared throughout the media for over a decade. Everything from Buffy the Vampire Slayer being convinced she's not -really- a vampire slayer and is actually a girl in a mental institution, to Captain Ben Sisko being coached to believe that the entire plot of Deep Space Nine was just a story he came up with, to the entire goddamned PLOT of "The Good Place" being literally about evil demons manipulating a person's perceptions of reality to convince them they're not actually in Hell.

Ok, lets do this:

Horde version: You defeat furbolg leaders in honorable combat and they leave with their tribe, except some maddened furbolg that keep on attacking the horde base.
Alliance version: The furbolg leaders are imprisoned by the horde and being exploited.

Explain to me (exactly! no vague answer) what has exactly happened, the exact location of those schrodinger furbolg leaders. Vague answer is not accepted.

[Steampunkette]

Many team members leaving have also shown same people who've been working on said game and or franchise for a VERY long time, it's very plausible they want something new and you can't blame them. WoW's been around for awhile so things may get stale for them, not a sign of OMG OMG Its OVER.

If I could add to this one, slightly?

People who have been in the business, and especially working on a single game, for a long period of time tend to command higher salaries and benefit requirements.

It's not even REMOTELY unusual for someone in the game industry to train their replacement simply because they make too much money for the company's liking (Independent of the amount of money coming in from the game they're making).

Turnover is pretty low compared to, like, a fast food restaurant. But it tends to happen in waves 'cause hiring periods and training periods tend to get done in one long string rather than doing it all year round. Often right before contract negotiation comes up.

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

Well yea they probably are. The villainy is in the attacking not attacking for no reason.
Attacking civilians to keep them from helping the enemy is a war crime for a reason

This is not about Sylvanas villainy for me. She's an undead monstrosity that should not be judged by "human" standards, just disposed off.

IMO, this is about her not being written like a paranoid idiot. Sylvanas is at her best when written as truly amoral and self servingly practical, but a lot of BfA's and BtS characterization seems to portray her as fearfully paranoid and just trying to justify her actions with logic.

Survival is her goal at all costs, and as a logical endeavor that was at least interesting, to see something so inhuman have the primal need to continue existing.

Now she's just coming across as a paranoid wreck, which removes her cool inhuman/amoral factor and just makes her your run of the mill megalomaniacal tyrant.

[TheFirstOnes]

Missing page 5000 by one page... Damn.

...

oof...

You posted in 5002. Missed by 1 page LUL

[derpkitteh]

Because making whole comic with such art quality will require more money. This picture alone have more "polygons" that all 3 BFA comics.

they're a small indie developer, you must understand!

but yeah though, that shadowclone ability for sub looks cool as fuck.

[gcsmith]

I was actually riffing on the Evil Demon thought problem of René Descartes. But you could also make it the "Brain in a Jar" problem is you prefer. Essentially: Everything you see is an illusion created by someone else and there's no real way to discern that false reality from a true reality.

Which means both scenarios happening at the same time is not a problem, since each side is experiencing their own, unique, hallucinations which do not need to share the same details in any meaningful way.

I still think the truth is gonna be closer to "Bad Writing" with no further explanation, but it's not like this philosophical problem hasn't appeared throughout the media for over a decade. Everything from Buffy the Vampire Slayer being convinced she's not -really- a vampire slayer and is actually a girl in a mental institution, to Captain Ben Sisko being coached to believe that the entire plot of Deep Space Nine was just a story he came up with, to the entire goddamned PLOT of "The Good Place" being literally about evil demons manipulating a person's perceptions of reality to convince them they're not actually in Hell.

Troll tier writing from blizzard would be we've been in a hallucination caused by old god infused Garrosh this entire time. Stuck in Orgrimarr basement and WOD and BFA and Legion never happened.

[Steampunkette]

Ok, lets do this:

Horde version: You defeat furbolg leaders in honorable combat and they leave with their tribe, except some maddened furbolg that keep on attacking the horde base.
Alliance version: The furbolg leaders are imprisoned by the horde and being exploited.

Explain to me (exactly! no vague answer) what has exactly happened, the exact location of those schrodinger furbolg leaders. Vague answer is not accepted.

Reality:

The Horde defeats the Furbolg Leaders in honorable(ish) combat and they are imprisoned. The Horde's perception of reality is altered by N'zoth to not recognize that they've imprisoned the leaders. The Furbolg did not leave, and did not surrender, and are attacking the Horde Base to try and free their people. The Horde perceives this as a handful of "Maddened Furbolg" fighting them.

The Alliance arrives, and sees the truth about the Furbolg Leaders being imprisoned, but does not see the Furbolg attacking the Horde because N'Zoth is fucking with their heads and instead perceive the Furbolg to be serving the Horde under duress.

Like... Every minute of every day being altered by N'zoth to see a pack of lies. Neither side getting the full truth. All of it twisted by Azerite/N'Zoth/Magic/Evil Demon.

And it's not Schroedinger. That was a thought experiment to explain how stupid most people are when they try to understand Quantum Mechanics. Descartes is the one who presents the idea of an evil demon manipulating his perception of reality.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

This is not about Sylvanas villainy for me. She's an undead monstrosity that should not be judged by "human" standards, just disposed off.

IMO, this is about her not being written like a paranoid idiot. Sylvanas is at her best when written as truly amoral and self servingly practical, but a lot of BfA's and BtS characterization seems to portray her as fearfully paranoid and just trying to justify her actions with logic.

Survival is her goal at all costs, and as a logical endeavor that was at least interesting, to see something so inhuman have the primal need to continue existing.

Now she's just coming across as a paranoid wreck, which removes her cool inhuman/amoral factor and just makes her your run of the mill megalomaniacal tyrant.

She is going to be judged, that's the point of all her bad stuff. She's not above what you say is "Human standards". Still it isn't too surprising for someone that leans on a tyrannical side to act paranoid.

[Steampunkette]

Troll tier writing from blizzard would be we've been in a hallucination caused by old god infused Garrosh this entire time. Stuck in Orgrimarr basement and WOD and BFA and Legion never happened.

They -did- say Vol'jin's story wasn't finished... HE'S STILL WARCHIEF!

[Dizson]

We've barely heard from him like at all and that's a different Jay that's on the team. Second Ion is also the team lead.


That was WoD but considering when he left it was probably a long time coming.



Ion and a lot of people on WoW have been on it for awhile. Ion has also been around since like forever.



What are you even talking about? They are hardly focusing on Hardcore mythic raiders.



Meaningless statement that has nothing to back it up.



Mythic+ also revived the Dungeon scene and clearly it's popular so no...incorrect.



There's always going to be some RNG factor in an MMO, you can argue how bad it is but you just point out things that have gating, not how bad or ways to improve it.



Again meaningless that doesn't explain what



You like making things up. Activision really has nothing to do with WoW, it's been said many times. No, them having a parent company named Activision Blizzard isn't evidence either.



Gameplay isn't nearly as imcomplete as you put it and so far they've put a lot of strides in fixing things. Not to mention the subjectivity of it from person to person.



This is what happens from Alpha to Beta to launch. Thing is Bethesda releases finished products with lots of bugs so it isn't the same.



Many team members leaving have also shown same people who've been working on said game and or franchise for a VERY long time, it's very plausible they want something new and you can't blame them. WoW's been around for awhile so things may get stale for them, not a sign of OMG OMG Its OVER.

>That was WoD but considering when he left it was probably a long time coming.
proves me, they just couldn't handle

>Ion and a lot of people on WoW have been on it for awhile. Ion has also been around since like forever.
They just got into a position to give out orders and make the game worse

>What are you even talking about? They are hardly focusing on Hardcore mythic raiders.
They do, mythic raid is considered one of the most important part of WoW and why many people play, imagine blizzard not focusing on it

>Meaningless statement that has nothing to back it up.
rehashed content is eveywhere in BfA, the actual new things besides zones/usual grab and kill quests/music is really minimal

>Mythic+ also revived the Dungeon scene and clearly it's popular so no...incorrect.

Because its a must if you want to advance, also a chore since u repeat the same dungeons over and over again, now you have reason to grind the same boring stuff over and over again, it wasn't fun if you have decency, apexes were fun for the first time just like the dungeons themselves

>There's always going to be some RNG factor in an MMO, you can argue how bad it is but you just point out things that have gating, not how bad or ways to improve it.
Got to the point where it was just pure gambling like lootboxer u can buy and see if u get epic except the money you pay with it is gamecard (actual money) and time

>Again meaningless that doesn't explain what
It does explain the state of the game

>You like making things up. Activision really has nothing to do with WoW, it's been said many times. No, them having a parent company named Activision Blizzard isn't evidence either.
Shop system, Playernumber decline with bad game quality, more weened out fake content. They also share the same investors, so go figure.

>Gameplay isn't nearly as imcomplete as you put it and so far they've put a lot of strides in fixing things. Not to mention the subjectivity of it from person to person.
class pruning, they admit they are behind and no time to fix at release, most people hate the class designs and game is full of bugs 1 month away from release.

>This is what happens from Alpha to Beta to launch. Thing is Bethesda releases finished products with lots of bugs so it isn't the same.

Legion launch had tons of bugs, it won't be different this time.

>Many team members leaving have also shown same people who've been working on said game and or franchise for a VERY long time, it's very plausible they want something new and you can't blame them. WoW's been around for awhile so things may get stale for them, not a sign of OMG OMG Its OVER.
Quality people leaving and get newbies iis a good thing since when.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

Not gonna bother really I tried to explain, not my fault you don't explain or have good reasons that and have bad faith(I mean you did post a "BLIZZ TERRIBLE WRITING" for it's own thread.

[GoodUsername55]

I mean you did post a "BLIZZ TERRIBLE WRITING" for it's own thread.

i dont agree with his wall of text but that thread was 100% accurate and justified.

[huth]

but how can you have a fantasy game if your franchises wood elves dont have a gigantic magical tree to live in?

/PlantMoreWorldTrees
/FandralDidNothingWrong

Have them grow World Eucalyptus Trees. Then play with matches nearby. Boom.

[GoodUsername55]

Server shutdown in 15 minutes

[Divada]

Sure the Horde character gets to avoid participating in the atrocities, but they are not really hidden from them, people are just presenting it this way. Blizzard is just giving the players an out from actually taking part.

I think this is exactly what's happening. Blizzard is trying to placate the folk not too happy with carrying out the awful stuff.

[nanoneo]

New build hype?