Mythic Argus desperately needs another wave of nerf.

[Deleted]

Nice guild, "oh you were a trial when we killed the boss? even though you passed the trial and stayed with us, no mount for you, ever, better get those millions for gbank, cha-ching!" Sat out players that were on standby I bet don't count either?

Won't matter anymore thanks to people like this, in BfA the trial who's been in the guild for 2 weeks can get the mount on the first kill and gquit the same day.

[kamuimac]

Won't matter anymore thanks to people like this, in BfA the trial who's been in the guild for 2 weeks can get the mount on the first kill and gquit the same day.

must be a really shitty guild if people join it only for mount

[KaPe]

must be a really shitty guild if people join it only for mount

Must be a really shitty player if they only join for a mount.

[Deleted]

must be a really shitty guild if people join it only for mount

<guy joins a guild,loots mount and leaves
<flame the guild instead of the player leaving and being an asshole
<??????
<profit

people are assholes and situations like this have happened and will happen in the future - no point blaming the guild in such a scenario unless you are really pitiful and hate mythicraiding guilds for asbolutely no reason

[thunderdragon2]

According to WCL.

Kills comparison.

Mythic Archimonde before pre-patch: 102217
Mythic Argus:50845


Wowprogress:

Mythic Archimonde: 2850 (5.26%)
Mythic Argus: 1191 (2.77%)
Heroic Garrosh Hellscream: 3193 (6.92%)


Stop telling me to kill it in pre-patch. There is no cutting-edge achievement in pre-patch.


It shows something fundamentally wrong here. The raid is becoming harder and harder. There is no point for a normal guild to survive. I've seen people resigned and divorced to progress. It would be normal in the future if you want a guarantee kill.

Normal guilds are generally lazy. That is why mythic lockout should be removed. Leave a choice for those who want a kill but dont want to divorce please.

MYTHIC ARGUS NEEDS A NERF AND MYTHIC LOCKOUT SHOULD BE REMOVED IN BFA. IT MUST BE PUGABLE IN THE FUTURE.

i disagree the problem with agus is the boss before it, its VERY easy to screw up aggramar if aggramar gets another nerf we will also see more argus, kills commimg ppl dont bother rekilling argus coz of the mess that is aggramar

[Deleted]

Nice guild, "oh you were a trial when we killed the boss? even though you passed the trial and stayed with us, no mount for you, ever, better get those millions for gbank, cha-ching!" Sat out players that were on standby I bet don't count either?

better than letting everyone roll on the mount and then have a trial that wasnt even in the guild during progress leave after they got the mount - happened to us a bit ago and im not gonna lie id rather have sold the mount one more time rather than giving away one to a trial that leaves a week after.

[AwkwardSquirtle]

I can't really be bothered trawling through 14 pages, did anyone compare first boss to last boss ratios?

[Marrilaife]

better than letting everyone roll on the mount and then have a trial that wasnt even in the guild during progress leave after they got the mount - happened to us a bit ago and im not gonna lie id rather have sold the mount one more time rather than giving away one to a trial that leaves a week after.

I know, had such people in my WOD guild during HFC, they clocked the required by guild 3 weeks of attendance to be allowed to roll and insta "took a break" when they got the mount. But screwing any non "core" members out of the mount is the opposite extreme. In my opinion the order should be gm > officers > long standing guild members who were on the kill > other people who were on the kill and helped with the farm (i.e. none of these got cutting edge and took a break until end of xpac types) > long standing guild members who were sat out / backup on the progress > trials that already have proven they aren't there just for cutting edge > then sell.

I don't agree with master looter changes because there's no way to reward guild loyalty, but on the other hand newer members shouldn't be treated as endless unpaid workforce. Raiders before trials, sure, but that doesn't mean "trials never". There should be a minimal period, but for example my guild gave a mount to a player who joined us after first kill, but stayed with us already 5 months, contrary to other trials who got cutting edge and fucked off (sadly hard to avoid these).

You can skip fresh trials, but the guy literally said they only awarded 15 mounts or so, do they really have a roster of 15 regulars and 10 fresh trials? Sounds fishy.

[asil]

This. What kills you in phase 3 isn't the chains, unless you handle them very badly. It's the chains + stacks wombo combo. Nerfing stacks also makes the rest of the encounter a bit easier. I'd say it is a good nerf.

Just an FYI, anyone struggling with chains+stacks I highly suggest you just let the chains time out rather than break them 1 by 1 or 2 at a time. We got our 3rd kill the other night doing this and it seemed to make p3 easier overall for us.

We break the first 2 instantly, let the 2nd expire, sac 3rd, let 4th expire and the boss will be dead before 5th set expires.

The main advantage of this, from what I can see, is it allows time for the stacks from rage/fear to expire before chains are broken. As long as you overload each expired set with healing cds it isn't a problem.

Was pretty shocked it was as easy as it was.

[KaPe]

i disagree the problem with agus is the boss before it, its VERY easy to screw up aggramar if aggramar gets another nerf we will also see more argus, kills commimg ppl dont bother rekilling argus coz of the mess that is aggramar

The problem with Aggramar is in the very nature of the boss. Mannoroth was somewhat similar, but it was entirely possible to kill without a single death knight - it did result in higher damage taken since you couldn't spread as much, but you could still blow up imps "easily". Controlling Aggramar's adds without grips? Not happening unless they un-nerf CC on this fight or outright remove few adds so you can waste some time "walking" them into boss. Or hugely nerf Taeshalach Reach, so boss can be moved into adds without killing random players.

None of that will happen with ~2-3 weeks until pre-patch.

[ryjkur]

The raid is already perfectly puggable in 2,5 hours. This nerf doesnt make sense.

Feel free to stop posting if you are just going to spew nonsense.

Well, I'm in guild who can't make Antorus farm raids during summer. So we merge with another 1 or 2 guilds with same situation and clears take 2-3 hours.

[KaPe]

Well, I'm in guild who can't make Antorus farm raids during summer. So we merge with another 1 or 2 guilds with same situation and clears take 2-3 hours.

You still need to re-examine your definition of pug. "Perfectly puggable" doesn't mean "multiple 11/11M guilds raiding together". For a start, even having multiple 11/11M guilds already removes plenty of realms from the equation. Then there's the "merger", which is usually a huge source of problems - even if it's just "couple players join our run". Then there's the overgearing you get from farming Argus already for (weeks/months). Also it conveniently ignores various hiccups than can happen, be it Argus, Aggramar or Varimathras.

It's like 19 manning Argus with a buyer and claiming it was a "pug".

[hulkgor]

It's been out for 8 months, will get hit again next month with pre-patch changes. Lots of character progression with the relics, wf\tf, scalable trinket, bla bla.

If you haven't killed it, you're just not good enough or in a good enough guild, so, who cares. BFA in less than 2 months.

What a fucking whining post.

[arr0gance]

You still need to re-examine your definition of pug. "Perfectly puggable" doesn't mean "multiple 11/11M guilds raiding together". For a start, even having multiple 11/11M guilds already removes plenty of realms from the equation. Then there's the "merger", which is usually a huge source of problems - even if it's just "couple players join our run". Then there's the overgearing you get from farming Argus already for (weeks/months). Also it conveniently ignores various hiccups than can happen, be it Argus, Aggramar or Varimathras.

It's like 19 manning Argus with a buyer and claiming it was a "pug".

Look dude, I PuG from my elite group of 11/11M raiding friends all the time. Sometimes we even form groups and invite people from the group finder just to laugh at them when they're last on the DPS meter.

[korijenkins]

13 and 14 month tier vs 5-6 month old one. Nothing to see here, move along.

Ahhh, the classic smug asshole on the forum.

[Marrilaife]

You still need to re-examine your definition of pug. "Perfectly puggable" doesn't mean "multiple 11/11M guilds raiding together".

With the advent of "communities" Blizzard is introducing hopefully "btag list of friends" or "alt run made from 3 guilds where know each other" will fit into that group and there won't be a question "if it's not a guild, is it a pug then?"

Same discussions arose around m+. "Me and my 4 btag buddies" is not the same as "pug of people I picked by ilvl / raider.io but never seen before".

[Jastall]

Ahhh, the classic smug asshole on the forum.

I'm sorry, should I not be stating facts? Antorus has been out for far less time than SoO and HFC and has seen fewer nerfs overall (things like the Valor upgrade or WoD ring nerfed these instances into the absolute ground). So it stands to reason Argus was killed and will be killed by fewer guilds, that's not a problem, no guild is owed Cutting Edge.

At this point Argus is as nerfed as he can be without trivializing the encounter. The soft DPS checks barely exist anymore so you can easily 4 heal, raid damage has been lessened twice, the previous wall boss has been severely nerfed, and with how geared everyone is this deep in the tier there is nothing stopping anyone from downing Argus except their lack of skill/readiness/coordination. It is a pure mechanics fight now.

[Deleted]

You still need to re-examine your definition of pug. "Perfectly puggable" doesn't mean "multiple 11/11M guilds raiding together". For a start, even having multiple 11/11M guilds already removes plenty of realms from the equation. Then there's the "merger", which is usually a huge source of problems - even if it's just "couple players join our run". Then there's the overgearing you get from farming Argus already for (weeks/months). Also it conveniently ignores various hiccups than can happen, be it Argus, Aggramar or Varimathras.

It's like 19 manning Argus with a buyer and claiming it was a "pug".

Pugging heroic can mean multiple 11/11 H players raiding together.

So pugging mythic can mean multiple 11/11M players raiding together

[KaPe]

Pugging heroic can mean multiple 11/11 H players raiding together.

So pugging mythic can mean multiple 11/11M players raiding together

Considering that one group is, what, 100 times more numerous? Not really. Then you have raid id, so you can't just keep joining until it dies. Then there's the obvious difficulty gap - outgearing Heroic is trivial. Outgearing mythic? Much harder - and even outgeared, some bosses will still murder you after couple mistakes.

Something like -35% Dragon Soul was "perfectly puggable", because it was nerfed into oblivion at that point. In Antorus case, this is only true if you reword it as "puggable by perfect groups."

[Varolyn]

Well, with the magni artifact quest coming out today that completely maxes out your ap, you could see it as another "nerf" to Argus and the rest of Antorus.