Poll: Bwonsamdi vs Lich king

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  1. #21
    Bwosamdi would trash talk Lich king into submission.

  2. #22
    Bloodsail Admiral MrSaggins's Avatar
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    Are we talking one-on-one? Let's not overestimate the Lich King's power here. He's strong and all, but ultimately he only exist(ed) because an orc shaman was wrecked by a cosmically powerful Eredar, and a human Prince/acolyte Paladin put the soulbound armor on. He basically lost to a single Paladin, or rather, the tactic of destroying Frostmourne turned the wealth of souls he had collected upon him. As Baron Saturday seems to collects souls, it seems as though the Lich King would be particularly vulnerable to him.
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  3. #23
    We have no idea how powerful Bwonsamdi even is.

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Kharli View Post
    https://wow.gamepedia.com/Loa
    while no ancient he is certainly on par with the ancients.
    again, being a LOA and being a GOD are two different things...the lich king was closer to a "god" than bows is....the lich king had eons of souls trapped in frostmourne, paladin powers from his time as arthas menethil and also legions of undead that were countless....yeah, id say he wins, hands down unless they show us bows true power in this xpac...

    but hey if it's on the internet it must be true right?
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  5. #25
    Every time i read that "Bwonsamdi is a wild god" i am frustrated....

    Vol'Jin will became loa (spoilers btw.).....
    So in your weird logic Vol'Jin is wild god....

    Shadra, Rezan, Hi'rek, Torga those are wild gods, but Bwonsamdi isn't animal, he became Loa later. I could think of him like Ner'zul of trolls but one that get power by diffrent means and more of those sweet power than Ner'zul.

  6. #26
    The Unstoppable Force Arrashi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dagoth Ur View Post
    Bwosamdi would trash talk Lich king into submission.
    Don't be too hasty here, so far its loa who have long record of being beaten into submission.

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Understarmor View Post
    again, being a LOA and being a GOD are two different things...the lich king was closer to a "god" than bows is....the lich king had eons of souls trapped in frostmourne, paladin powers from his time as arthas menethil and also legions of undead that were countless....yeah, id say he wins, hands down unless they show us bows true power in this xpac...

    but hey if it's on the internet it must be true right?
    I'd hardly say he had "eons of souls" considering that Frostmourne itself is a fairly recent creation; he's got maybe 20 years of soul buildup while Bwonsamdi has tens of thousands of years. The Lich King also exhibited no "paladin powers" either because he's hardly able to reach for power from the Light when he's a creature of fel and death originally (demonic power turned into death magic) and his legions of undead aren't countless; there's a finite number of bodies for him to have at any given time while Bwonsamdi has literally the entirety of Azeroth's history worth of trolls to pull from and potentially even elf souls depending on how much we want to pull out of our asses since they're just evolved trolls. You've grossly overstated the Lich King's power. Is he incredibly powerful from a lore standpoint? Sure. But saying he's still got paladin light magic and endless numbers is entirely false, much less that he had eons worth of souls in Frostmourne that is a fairly new creation.

    Overall I don't think there really can be a winner in this situation. They're similar beings in that they collect souls but use their power very differently. The Loa have been shown to have the ability to be resurrected so even in the event of Bwonsamdi losing a physical fight he'd just be revived and come back anyways so if the Lich King has the power advantage the fight ends in a draw. If Bwonsamdi has the power advantage, the next person to don the Helm of Domination just becomes the new Lich King and the fight ends in a draw. This is a fight where there wouldn't be a winner because of the simple fact that both entities are eternal through resurrection.

  8. #28
    Lich King has thicker fan armor so he wins pretty much any fight on this website.

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by nerv234 View Post
    Every time i read that "Bwonsamdi is a wild god" i am frustrated....

    Vol'Jin will became loa (spoilers btw.).....
    So in your weird logic Vol'Jin is wild god....

    Shadra, Rezan, Hi'rek, Torga those are wild gods, but Bwonsamdi isn't animal, he became Loa later. I could think of him like Ner'zul of trolls but one that get power by diffrent means and more of those sweet power than Ner'zul.
    Wild gods have the ability to take on mortal forms
    And Shadra is not a wild god, because Shadra did not touch the Dryad because she was probably afraid of Cenarius and his family. Under the family of Cenarius, either his children or all the wild gods may be undermined.

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Cronovey View Post
    I'd hardly say he had "eons of souls" considering that Frostmourne itself is a fairly recent creation; he's got maybe 20 years of soul buildup while Bwonsamdi has tens of thousands of years. The Lich King also exhibited no "paladin powers" either because he's hardly able to reach for power from the Light when he's a creature of fel and death originally (demonic power turned into death magic) and his legions of undead aren't countless; there's a finite number of bodies for him to have at any given time while Bwonsamdi has literally the entirety of Azeroth's history worth of trolls to pull from and potentially even elf souls depending on how much we want to pull out of our asses since they're just evolved trolls. You've grossly overstated the Lich King's power. Is he incredibly powerful from a lore standpoint? Sure. But saying he's still got paladin light magic and endless numbers is entirely false, much less that he had eons worth of souls in Frostmourne that is a fairly new creation.

    Overall I don't think there really can be a winner in this situation. They're similar beings in that they collect souls but use their power very differently. The Loa have been shown to have the ability to be resurrected so even in the event of Bwonsamdi losing a physical fight he'd just be revived and come back anyways so if the Lich King has the power advantage the fight ends in a draw. If Bwonsamdi has the power advantage, the next person to don the Helm of Domination just becomes the new Lich King and the fight ends in a draw. This is a fight where there wouldn't be a winner because of the simple fact that both entities are eternal through resurrection.
    just because he didnt exhibit any paladin powers doesn't mean he still didn't have them....theres a huge difference between losing powers and not showing them, and frostmourne had more than 20 years of souls in it and even at that, if that's your sticking point, then it doesn't matter because 20 years of souls could catch up to 1000's of years of souls depending on how much damage was done...being that people like arthas or the undead like sylvanas simply don't sleep or take vacations...barring arthas being frozen of course, and even while he was....he was still collecting souls....

    "if the lich king has the power advantage the fight ends in a draw" no, that's just stupid...if the lich king killed him, he would be dead, I'm sure there would be a ritual, needed to be performed by someone for him to come back....

    again the lich king is more powerful....justifying both being eternal resurrected is just a shitty way out of an argument that you aren't going to win.
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  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Understarmor View Post
    again, being a LOA and being a GOD are two different things...the lich king was closer to a "god" than bows is....the lich king had eons of souls trapped in frostmourne, paladin powers from his time as arthas menethil and also legions of undead that were countless....yeah, id say he wins, hands down unless they show us bows true power in this xpac...

    but hey if it's on the internet it must be true right?

    really now... years upon years upon years of souls?

    I'm not sure they even properly acknowledged how many souls were personally stolen by the sword over the course of its existence OR how many users were consumed by it. As far as I'm aware it was made by some demons... dropped into the story somehow and sat in icecrown till Arthas got a hold of it with all it's bells and whistles just waiting for the story to catch up to it.

    Maybe they touch upon it further but this is treading into arthas having a really nice sword vs what may be the closest incarnation to a god of death contest >.> I'm giving teh edge to the so far unknown possible god over the mortal turned lich king.

  12. #32
    Bloodsail Admiral MrSaggins's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Understarmor View Post
    again, being a LOA and being a GOD are two different things...
    Seems like an issue of semantics. The only true god status being I'm aware of is Elune, but who's to say she isn't a Loa? The elves who worshipped her came from troll stock after all.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    "There is another person on the other end of the chat screen. They're our friends; they're our brothers and sisters; they're our sons and daughters. Let's take a stand to reject hate and harassment, and let's redouble our efforts to be kind and respectful to one another, and let's remind the world what the gaming community is really all about."

    Mike Morhaime CEO of Blizzard Entertainment, Blizzcon 2014 (view)

  13. #33
    The Lightbringer Dalheim's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nerv234 View Post
    Every time i read that "Bwonsamdi is a wild god" i am frustrated....

    Vol'Jin will became loa (spoilers btw.).....
    So in your weird logic Vol'Jin is wild god....

    Shadra, Rezan, Hi'rek, Torga those are wild gods, but Bwonsamdi isn't animal, he became Loa later. I could think of him like Ner'zul of trolls but one that get power by diffrent means and more of those sweet power than Ner'zul.
    That's the thing. We don't know that. All we know is that he came before trolls, which he himself has said. Other than that, we don't know where he comes from. How he looks like to us might not even be his true form.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MrSaggins View Post
    Seems like an issue of semantics. The only true god status being I'm aware of is Elune, but who's to say she isn't a Loa? The elves who worshipped her came from troll stock after all.
    There are actually a group of ''Heretic'' Zandalari called the ''Lun'alai'' who seem to actually revere Elune as a Loa.

  14. #34
    "Loa" is just the Trolls' term for beings being worshipped by the Troll. Being a Loa doesn't say anything about whether you are powerful (or not so), just that there is / are group(s) of Trolls consider you a spirit, so I don't think it's of any importance in a fight. For that matter, not like just being called a God is, either - the Wild Gods are hardly top of the food chain in WoW.
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  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by djcoin View Post
    I'm pretty sure the LK can kill a loa. A bunch of random trolls did it to a bunch of them in Zul Farak..
    Bwonsamdi isn't just a Loa though. Most Loa are basically fantastical beasts, Bwonsamdi is a being that likely predates Azeroth and resides in and is able to freely move to and from the Shadowlands.

    Then again, the Lich King is a being of very old shadow magic, which we haven't seen what he can really do. Arthas never flexed the Lich King muscles, not like Nerzhul did.

  16. #36

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by McFuu View Post
    Bwonsamdi isn't just a Loa though. Most Loa are basically fantastical beasts, Bwonsamdi is a being that likely predates Azeroth and resides in and is able to freely move to and from the Shadowlands.
    I believe there has been no indication whatsoever that Bwonsamdi predates Azeroth, or if he was any more powerful than other strong Loa. The fact that he had to listen to Rezan's request (or threat) and returned Rastakhan's spirit might imply otherwise. Additionally, while Bwonsamdi is definitely an ancient spirit, it's not actually clear whether he was part of the Loa that predates the trolls (going by "Shadows of the Horde", the loa come before the trolls, but not all loa did - the wisps or Zanza, for example, definitely didn't).
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  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Understarmor View Post
    just because he didnt exhibit any paladin powers doesn't mean he still didn't have them....theres a huge difference between losing powers and not showing them, and frostmourne had more than 20 years of souls in it and even at that, if that's your sticking point, then it doesn't matter because 20 years of souls could catch up to 1000's of years of souls depending on how much damage was done...being that people like arthas or the undead like sylvanas simply don't sleep or take vacations...barring arthas being frozen of course, and even while he was....he was still collecting souls....

    "if the lich king has the power advantage the fight ends in a draw" no, that's just stupid...if the lich king killed him, he would be dead, I'm sure there would be a ritual, needed to be performed by someone for him to come back....

    again the lich king is more powerful....justifying both being eternal resurrected is just a shitty way out of an argument that you aren't going to win.
    you're counting on two kingdoms worth of people equaling thousands of years of life and death. trolls live like what, 100 years at most? and just the natural life cycle of a troll that worships bwonsamdi gives him a soul.

    he has existed since before trolls even became trolls. that's many thousands of years more than any other being currently living on azeroth, even the titan keepers and aspects.

  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Qualia View Post
    I believe there has been no indication whatsoever that Bwonsamdi predates Azeroth, or if he was any more powerful than other strong Loa. The fact that he had to listen to Rezan's request (or threat) and returned Rastakhan's spirit might imply otherwise. Additionally, while Bwonsamdi is definitely an ancient spirit, it's not actually clear whether he was part of the Loa that predates the trolls (going by "Shadows of the Horde", the loa come before the trolls, but not all loa did - the wisps or Zanza, for example, definitely didn't).
    Bwonsamdi says himself he is older than the Trolls.

    Also the whole interaction between Rezan and Bwonsamdi is pretty whimsical. We know Bwonsamdi has a limited ability to see the future or predict it decently accurate. He gives Rezan Rastakhan's soul back pretty much stating that they will both be dying soon anyway. Bwonsamdi also may claim the souls of dead Loa, seeing as he seemed to have Torga's (although it may be that he just knew how to find it.)

  20. #40
    Deleted
    Saw the Lich King (Ner'zhul) as one of the strongest being in Warcraft history.
    Then Arthas the emo prince beats him in a mind battle was one of the biggest jokes ever made and now with Bolvar (Arthas-wannebe) i rly dont like the Lich King character anymore.

    So i vote for Bwonsamdi.

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