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  1. #81
    Obama's biggest mistake wasn't trying to reach across the isle. It was not pulling back when his hand was slapped away.

  2. #82
    It's actually the exact right approach, the problem is that the GOP responded to his victory by throwing itself 100% behind obstructionist partisan zealotry, the fallout of which continues to this day. They abdicated any pretense of engaging in the process with good faith, and now the whole system is essentially broken. It's hard to see the US party system coming back from this precipice.

    You can't fix this with sticky tape and chewing gum anymore, you need major constitutional reform.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tojara View Post
    Look Batman really isn't an accurate source by any means
    Quote Originally Posted by Hooked View Post
    It is a fact, not just something I made up.

  3. #83
    Quote Originally Posted by Mormolyce View Post
    It's actually the exact right approach, the problem is that the GOP responded to his victory by throwing itself 100% behind obstructionist partisan zealotry, the fallout of which continues to this day. They abdicated any pretense of engaging in the process with good faith, and now the whole system is essentially broken. It's hard to see the US party system coming back from this precipice.

    You can't fix this with sticky tape and chewing gum anymore, you need major constitutional reform.
    Just outlawing gerrymandering and move to public funding of elections where all donations and pacs are banned, those 2 alone would basically neuter the Republican party and platform.

    Then moving to a ranked voting method and either removing the electoral college or mandating they vote proportionally based on the popular vote of the people they represent would allow for 3rd parties and we could actually get some change.

    But doubt they would do the first one because it would make them less money and the second one they would rather let this nation burn then give up power allowing for 3rd and 4th parties and giving the public access to actual representation.
    Since we can't call out Trolls and Bad Faith posters and the Ignore function doesn't actually ignore it. Add
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  4. #84
    Quote Originally Posted by Fugus View Post
    Just outlawing gerrymandering and move to public funding of elections where all donations and pacs are banned, those 2 alone would basically neuter the Republican party and platform.

    Then moving to a ranked voting method and either removing the electoral college or mandating they vote proportionally based on the popular vote of the people they represent would allow for 3rd parties and we could actually get some change.

    But doubt they would do the first one because it would make them less money and the second one they would rather let this nation burn then give up power allowing for 3rd and 4th parties and giving the public access to actual representation.
    The problem with ranked voting is it drags the process out. It took over a week for Maine to count one race. Now extrapolate that to every race. Even if states opt-out it would still apply to their federal representatives. I feel all it will do is give more ammo to the "VOTER FRAUD IS TOTALLY REAL AND NOT JUST A THING WE USE TO DISENFRANCHISE BROWN PEOPLE!!!" crowd.
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheGravemind View Post
    If I was in his boots (and forced to join the SS in 1939 or whenever he joined), I would have tried to liberate the camp myself or die trying. He did not. He traded his life for the life of thousands of people, thus he should face the consequences
    Quote Originally Posted by Proberly View Post
    Oh would you now? It truly is amazing how many heroic people we have wasting their time on internet.

  5. #85
    Quote Originally Posted by Fugus View Post
    Just outlawing gerrymandering and move to public funding of elections where all donations and pacs are banned, those 2 alone would basically neuter the Republican party and platform.

    Then moving to a ranked voting method and either removing the electoral college or mandating they vote proportionally based on the popular vote of the people they represent would allow for 3rd parties and we could actually get some change.

    But doubt they would do the first one because it would make them less money and the second one they would rather let this nation burn then give up power allowing for 3rd and 4th parties and giving the public access to actual representation.
    Also:

    -Serious restrictions on the Presidential pardon so it cannot be used in cases of public corruption, ie obvious conflicts of interest.
    -Complete reversal of the Citizens United decision.
    -Revealing taxes now mandatory, not just good manners.
    -Giving REAL teeth to FARA.
    -Endow the Office of Government Ethics with so much power it's essentially a permanent Mueller investigation, but much faster. Give it impeachment power if necessary.

    These should all be absolute no-brainers, it's a disgrace that the system allows manifest corruption by public officials.

    I won't even get into the Supreme Court - that system has been gamed to the point nobody's even trying to pretend it isn't a partisan puppet. You should replace the entire thing - eg, they select them out of a large pool at random and only serve limited rotating terms, like say 1 year.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tojara View Post
    Look Batman really isn't an accurate source by any means
    Quote Originally Posted by Hooked View Post
    It is a fact, not just something I made up.

  6. #86
    Quote Originally Posted by Priestiality View Post
    The problem with ranked voting is it drags the process out. It took over a week for Maine to count one race. Now extrapolate that to every race. Even if states opt-out it would still apply to their federal representatives. I feel all it will do is give more ammo to the "VOTER FRAUD IS TOTALLY REAL AND NOT JUST A THING WE USE TO DISENFRANCHISE BROWN PEOPLE!!!" crowd.
    Ranked voting, if done right, wouldn't take that long, maybe a week to 2 weeks tops I would think.

    I would just have the general election all be in roughly the same day nationally. Not like they will even need primaries anymore at that point as each person running under their tent actually increases their odds of winning so the last thing they would want would be to widdle that number down.

    As for a single race taking a week, still worth it. Even doing all of them, could get the results for them all within a month if done right and that is if we didn't do electronic stuff to verify integrity. And while actually removing spoiler votes and allowing 3rd parties to be viable.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Mormolyce View Post
    Also:

    -Serious restrictions on the Presidential pardon so it cannot be used in cases of public corruption, ie obvious conflicts of interest.
    -Complete reversal of the Citizens United decision.
    -Revealing taxes now mandatory, not just good manners.
    -Giving REAL teeth to FARA.
    -Endow the Office of Government Ethics with so much power it's essentially a permanent Mueller investigation, but much faster. Give it impeachment power if necessary.

    These should all be absolute no-brainers, it's a disgrace that the system allows manifest corruption by public officials.

    I won't even get into the Supreme Court - that system has been gamed to the point nobody's even trying to pretend it isn't a partisan puppet. You should replace the entire thing - eg, they select them out of a large pool at random and only serve limited rotating terms, like say 1 year.
    Oh trust me, I had more, I just wanted to be basic so as to have the highest level of success while having a huge impact.

    Without them in place, enough money would eventually be leverage to overturn the rest. Would also make it where after working in office, they couldn't work in the private sector again or own vested interests in any company and in return they are given pay and benefits for life. And can only work in government again from that point on to prevent them from selling out and moving to consulting jobs.
    Since we can't call out Trolls and Bad Faith posters and the Ignore function doesn't actually ignore it. Add
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  7. #87
    Herald of the Titans D Luniz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by breadisfunny View Post
    and that he was a democrat.
    Id have to disagree, and I point to as proof, and some irony, the many leaked GOP bigoted emails they were passing around about the Obamas, the birtherism as well

  8. #88
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    If you had an ounce of self-reflection in you, you'd be able to realize your ability to post exactly that is proof positive that what you just said is completely wrong, on the facts.

    Not sure why you'd want to prove your own claim wrong in the same breath as you make it, but there you have it.
    If you had an ounce of self-reflection in you, you'd be able to realize that most of the politics sub forum is hate speech directed at anyone disagreeing with democrats or liberals. Just look at the restaurant thread, it's mostly hate speech. This shit board is dominated by liberals and their hatred of anyone who disagrees with them. Look at the nation bashing that only gets partially moderated. Like a Danish person bad mouthing and wishing ill upon Americans and you agreeing with him. I am not shocked in the least. Thanks Joy, although since you moderate sometimes, I'll give you the Whoopi title.

  9. #89
    Quote Originally Posted by TexasRules View Post
    If you had an ounce of self-reflection in you, you'd be able to realize that most of the politics sub forum is hate speech directed at anyone disagreeing with democrats or liberals.
    It has nothing to do with disagreeing and the complete lack of looking at obvious facts while also spewing things about conspiracy theories and Killary.

    Just look at the restaurant thread, it's mostly hate speech.
    Would you like to link to some of the hate speech? This may come as a surprise, but when you're a shitty person people tend not to like you.

    This shit board is dominated by liberals and their hatred of anyone who disagrees with them.
    No, disagree away. The issue is that Trumplestiltskins tend to break forum rules, which makes them all butt hurt and think the "system" is out to get them. Case and point here with you.

    Look at the nation bashing that only gets partially moderated. Like a Danish person bad mouthing and wishing ill upon Americans and you agreeing with him. I am not shocked in the least. Thanks Joy, although since you moderate sometimes, I'll give you the Whoopi title.
    Link to the nation bashing? You could have reported it, you know? Most people won't report something like that because they don't care, but you could have.

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  10. #90
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TexasRules View Post
    If you had an ounce of self-reflection in you, you'd be able to realize that most of the politics sub forum is hate speech directed at anyone disagreeing with democrats or liberals.
    Well, that's simply not true. You either have no clue what "hate speech" actually means, or you're being dishonest about it, because such hate speech isn't occurring.

    The site rules forbid hate speech. So go ahead; report what you think it hate speech. Give it a few days, to let the mods have time to see your report. Then check if anyone got banned over what you reported. I'm willing to bet you won't see much traction, because it's not actually hate speech.

    This shit board is dominated by liberals and their hatred of anyone who disagrees with them.
    Ironic.


  11. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wvvtayy View Post
    As great a president as he was, his biggest downfall was trying to compromise and work with Republicans. It didn't work, it didn't save his party from losing control of Congress, and it didn't cause the next Republican president to offer Democrats the same courtesy.

    I hope the next time Democrats control both Congress and the presidency the Democrats learn from this and shun the Republicans from everything, and ram through everything they can without even the slightest bit of compromise. Because they know next time Republicans have control after that they're just going to do the same again.

    Just like how you don't negotiate with terrorists, you also don't try to negotiate with right wing lunatics.
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  12. #92
    Scarab Lord downnola's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crispin View Post
    A party that ignores almost half the population is a disgrace (this goes for both sides), getiing deals done across the middle secures them in the long term, but apparently alot of the American politics share the child like mind of their voters, with the "fuck the others and let's do us!" mindset. Reading stuff like "I love liberal tears", clearly shows that Americans are stuck in the realistic conflict theory. It's a neverending circle of utter hate for eachother, for what? A tad lower tax, abortion and healthcare disagreements?

    Sadly it doesnt seem to change, especially when US voters are enjoying the other sides complaints about the situation (democrats and republicans). In the end I guess it makes me quite happy, that we have a system where the majority vote decides the winner, and the parties often make deals across the middle to ensure their longetivity.
    The easiest way to understand the average American mindset is to compare the difference in marketing for Ramsey's Kitchen Nightmares in the UK and US. The UK version is filmed like documentary and in the US it's filmed as a reality TV drama. We're not happy unless the fella we don't like is crashing and burning. We love mindless drama, it's really that simple.
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  13. #93
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    That was a mistake. It was also a mistake--and probably a bigger one with more long term consequences--that he ignored his party's infrastructure at the district and state level and allowed the Republicans to take over any number of state houses. His dismissal of Howard Dean as the head of the DNC when he took over the Presidency and the scrapping of Dean's 50-State Strategy is something that Democrats are paying heavily for right now.

    His other big mistake which relates to the op's premise is that Obama believed that people, especially Republicans, were better people than they actually are. He continued to believe that for too long. But the plain fact is that he had to work with Republicans as best he could after the 2010 mid-terms. There wasn't really a choice about it.
    Last edited by MoanaLisa; 2018-06-24 at 08:08 AM.
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  14. #94
    Quote Originally Posted by Fugus View Post
    Agreed. Have them....

    -Term limits for Supreme Court Justices while appointing 2 new justices to balance out the stolen seat.
    (snipped the rest)

    Believe me, you don't want term limits for Supreme Court Justices. Our Constitutional Court here in Hungary works that way, up to 2 5-year terms and you know what that results in? Justices who keep an eye on their reelection. Which is done by Parliament.

  15. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by TexasRules View Post
    Look at the nation bashing that only gets partially moderated.
    Trump is still campaigning about America not being great. Trump claimed that America was a killer, with his “you think we are so innocent”. While I have never seen a single Trump supporter defend America, when being bashed by Russian trolls and the // crowd who want to destroy America, because they also support Trump.

    You want to play a game? You come up with a single quote from this forum, were a Trump hater talks about destroying America (not Trump and his support) and I will reply with 5 for each one, from people claiming they support Trump because he is destroying the evil America (not democrats and liberals). This should be easy for you and impossible for me, remember that this is a Trump haters paradise and 1:5 is a hell of deal...

    The simple fact is, if nation bashing was more strictly enforced, there would be less Trump supporters. Every time Trump shows corruption and his support claims its normal for America, that’s nation bashing. Strictly enforcing this, would result in more complaining about moderation, because Trump supporters don’t seem to get that bashing America, while defending Trump, is still nation bashing.
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  16. #96
    Quote Originally Posted by Dontrike View Post
    Have a source that Obama said Trump wouldn't be elected? Oh who am I kidding, when was the last time you had a source?
    Only thing I can think of is a short clip where celebrities were reading twitter messages directed at them. Obama was in one of them. Trump tweeted that Obama would go down as the worst president in history, Obama responded by saying that at least he'd go down as a president.
    https://www.nbcnews.com/dateline/vid...l-792986691631

  17. #97
    Quote Originally Posted by Flarelaine View Post
    (snipped the rest)

    Believe me, you don't want term limits for Supreme Court Justices. Our Constitutional Court here in Hungary works that way, up to 2 5-year terms and you know what that results in? Justices who keep an eye on their reelection. Which is done by Parliament.
    I was thinking more along the lines of a single 10-15 year term limit with no hope of re-election. But also after they serve, they have retirement and can't work in the private sector again to prevent from being bought.

    Trust me, I don't want the re-election treadmill going with them, they already sell us out enough with the lifetime appointments which is why parties are so willing to screw the voters and the system to get the guy they wanted up there as evidenced by the new illegitimate justice we just had appointed by fucking with the rules and even had a republican politician mention during the election that if Clinton won he saw no reason to appoint a new justice for the next 4 years.

    Instead we got this jackass in power who already ruled to screw the people of this nation along party lines with him being the tie-breaking vote in a case that allows companies to now violate their employees due process rights by making their arbitration clauses in their employment contracts legally enforceable so their employees can no longer sue them or engage in class action lawsuits against them.
    Since we can't call out Trolls and Bad Faith posters and the Ignore function doesn't actually ignore it. Add
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  18. #98
    Quote Originally Posted by Delaios View Post
    Only thing I can think of is a short clip where celebrities were reading twitter messages directed at them. Obama was in one of them. Trump tweeted that Obama would go down as the worst president in history, Obama responded by saying that at least he'd go down as a president.
    https://www.nbcnews.com/dateline/vid...l-792986691631
    I don't know if I'd call that "saying he won't be" and assuring it, but doing what the kids call "throwing shade".

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  19. #99
    Quote Originally Posted by Yggdrasil View Post
    Obama's biggest mistake wasn't trying to reach across the isle. It was not pulling back when his hand was slapped away.
    Given that its presently of major focus, this is particularly true of immigration.

    The dirty secret of the American immigration system is that the border was effectively sealed in 2010. The Obama administration stepped up border security as an enticement to create a bipartisan push for reforming the various systems of legal entry - visas, asylum, naturalization, etc - to make them more humane and less byzantine. Look through the stories of ICE agents seizing people who are already here, and the overwhelming majority of the cases involve unauthorized entry prior to 2010. The East German Stasi would be green with envy over the level of policing and militarization of our southern border.

    Except the far right doesn't want border security; they want an ethno-state. They don't want to make lawful immigration less onerous and humane, they want lawful immigration stopped. Fewer family visas (i.e. what they now call "chain migration"), fewer naturalizations, fewer immigrants. And it isn't a policy, it's an election strategy. Combined with voter suppression, providing fewer pathways to citizenship is their mode of staying in power. And even then its foolish; if every American over the age of 65 dropped dead tomorrow, the American far right and the Republican party in general would be politically castrated. As they're not making enough far right younger voters to replace them, they're losing the battle of attrition.

    The next Democratic administration and Congress should simply dispense with the nonsense of bipartisan engagement on these kinds of issues. Liberalize the immigration system, aggressively sue states that engage in voter suppression, and expand the total number of seats in the House of Representatives to erase the urban/rural disparity in congressional voting power; in essence, work to make a permanent center-left majority. They should also pack the everloving fuck out of the courts, too. Stop relying on passive demographic changes to just come along and fix everything.
    Last edited by Slybak; 2018-06-25 at 04:33 PM.

  20. #100
    Quote Originally Posted by Dontrike View Post
    I don't know if I'd call that "saying he won't be" and assuring it, but doing what the kids call "throwing shade".
    I know, I know. But people will probably take that out of context (a fucking joke) and consider it as an official statement.

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