Poll: "Everything Trump has done since assuming office to the date" vs "Iraq War"

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  1. #1

    "Everything Trump has done since assuming office to the date" vs "Iraq War"

    Better, worse, equal?

    Simple question.

  2. #2
    Merely a Setback PACOX's Avatar
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    What? What are we comparing, apples to oranges?

    Lets play the game though.

    Bush fucked up another country. And even if it was a stupid move in hindsight, people were on board just to fuck something up after 9/11. Someone dented the US's car and the first looking looking suspicious caught the hands. Now some within Bush's administration had other motives but we won't get into that, utimately the US was looking to kick someones ass and Iraq pulled the short stick. What came out of it? Iraq got set back a many years. A bunch of money got flushed down the drawn. The US had a nasty hangover but ultimately the world once again knew what pissing off the US costs.

    Now lets look at Trump's administration so far. Kissing Russia's heel and giving them a free pass for being Russia. The same Russia since the Bush era. We've kissed China's ass, the power most likely to give the US a run for its money or at least make the US share the throne. We're emboldened the worst modern dictator. We've pissed off allies that have followed the US through the mud since WW2 even if the US was being stupid. We've eroded our own institutions, tradition no longer matters, honor no longer matters, if its not a hard law then its fair game to be dragged and stomped on. We've treating immigrants and the kids of immigrants like war criminals while we shoot each other. Conservatives are shooting people, liberals are shooting people, kids are shooting people. The news doesn't even phase us anymore.

    So I would say the eras are about equal. Oh and good drop not trying to make a comparison to the Obama era.

    Resident Cosplay Progressive

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by PACOX View Post
    What? What are we comparing, apples to oranges?

    Lets play the game though.

    Bush fucked up another country. And even if it was a stupid move in hindsight, people were on board just to fuck something up after 9/11. Someone dented the US's car and the first looking looking suspicious caught the hands. Now some within Bush's administration had other motives but we won't get into that, utimately the US was looking to kick someones ass and Iraq pulled the short stick. What came out of it? Iraq got set back a many years. A bunch of money got flushed down the drawn. The US had a nasty hangover but ultimately the world once again knew what pissing off the US costs.

    Now lets look at Trump's administration so far. Kissing Russia's heel and giving them a free pass for being Russia. The same Russia since the Bush era. We've kissed China's ass, the power most likely to give the US a run for its money or at least make the US share the throne. We're emboldened the worst modern dictator. We've pissed off allies that have followed the US through the mud since WW2 even if the US was being stupid. We've eroded our own institutions, tradition no longer matters, honor no longer matters, if its not a hard law then its fair game to be dragged and stomped on. We've treating immigrants and the kids of immigrants like war criminals while we shoot each other. Conservatives are shooting people, liberals are shooting people, kids are shooting people. The news doesn't even phase us anymore.

    So I would say the eras are about equal. Oh and good drop not trying to make a comparison to the Obama era.
    Actually Iraq War pissed just as many US allies.

    If you don't remember, Germany and France were against it and didn't join in.

    And this is what Bush said after meeting with Putin:
    The summit was judged a success by both sides even though it left Russia and the US little closer to resolving the issues that divided them. The atmosphere was one of friendly co-operation with the two leaders getting on far better than expected. The warmth of the meeting surprised many. The first handshake looked stiff and awkward, but after well over an hour of talks they came out smiling with Bush inviting the Russian leader to visit his ranch in Texas.

    Bush described their meeting as straightforward and effective. He said it was time to move beyond Cold War attitudes, away from mutually assured destruction towards mutually earned respect. "We had a very good dialogue. I was able to get a sense of his soul. He's a man deeply committed to his country and the best interests of his country and I appreciate very much the frank dialogue and that's the beginning of a very constructive relationship," Bush said.

    Putin also seemed to suggest these two very different leaders had built up a rapport. Echoing Bush he called the United States Russia's partner. Warm words, unthinkable just a few months ago. The Russian leader said both their countries bore a special responsibility for maintaining world peace and security. However he warned that any unilateral action would make that process more complicated - a signal that difficult discussions on NATO and the US missile defense system still lay ahead.

    At the closing press conference, in response to a question about whether he could trust Putin, Bush said, "I looked the man in the eye. I found him very straightforward and trustworthy – I was able to get a sense of his soul." Bush's top security aide Condoleezza Rice later wrote that Bush's phrasing had been a serious mistake. "We were never able to escape the perception that the president had naïvely trusted Putin and then been betrayed."
    Last edited by Shalcker; 2018-06-24 at 09:42 AM.

  4. #4
    Deleted
    Both cases make me think "just dismantle the US"...

  5. #5
    Deleted
    You're kind of comparing flinging shit into your neighbor's yard and openly defecating into your own yard.

    Both are horrible things to do and just end up with shit everywhere.

  6. #6
    Perfect example of Russian propaganda whatabboutism grats I guess.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by PACOX View Post
    What? What are we comparing, apples to oranges?

    Lets play the game though.

    Bush fucked up another country. And even if it was a stupid move in hindsight, people were on board just to fuck something up after 9/11. Someone dented the US's car and the first looking looking suspicious caught the hands. Now some within Bush's administration had other motives but we won't get into that, utimately the US was looking to kick someones ass and Iraq pulled the short stick. What came out of it? Iraq got set back a many years. A bunch of money got flushed down the drawn. The US had a nasty hangover but ultimately the world once again knew what pissing off the US costs.

    Now lets look at Trump's administration so far. Kissing Russia's heel and giving them a free pass for being Russia. The same Russia since the Bush era. We've kissed China's ass, the power most likely to give the US a run for its money or at least make the US share the throne. We're emboldened the worst modern dictator. We've pissed off allies that have followed the US through the mud since WW2 even if the US was being stupid. We've eroded our own institutions, tradition no longer matters, honor no longer matters, if its not a hard law then its fair game to be dragged and stomped on. We've treating immigrants and the kids of immigrants like war criminals while we shoot each other. Conservatives are shooting people, liberals are shooting people, kids are shooting people. The news doesn't even phase us anymore.

    So I would say the eras are about equal. Oh and good drop not trying to make a comparison to the Obama era.
    Most of this was going on before Trump was president.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by CrowleyXIV View Post
    Both cases make me think "just dismantle the US"...
    The entire world would crumble.

  8. #8
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by lockedout View Post
    The entire world would crumble.
    There would be a very significant geopolitical realignment and power balancing worldwide.

    But beyond that, no, life would go on.

  9. #9
    I feel like one of the few liberal lefty folks that wasn't that appalled by the Iraq war, other than our faulty premise and that we didn't have a clear strategy for getting out.

    I grew up during Saddam Hussein's hayday. That guy was a piece of absolute shit, and his whole family followed suit. He and his sons made it a family business to murder their own citizens en masse, with added barbarism and cruelty for fun. We shouldn't have said "we're going in looking for WMDs," we should have said "we're getting rid of that pigfucker Hussein."

    From that angle, it makes a little more sense that we'd go into Iraq. The entire region was filled with pro-al Qaeda forces, so if we simply fueled the citizenry to oust him we would have only ended up with another terrorist state. I think it's kind of ironic that most opposition to even this line of thought comes from people that are otherwise opposed to the extreme ultra-patriotism and "America first" from the righties, because that's really what it amounts to - "care about ourselves and let everyone else worry about them."

    So I mean on topic, comparatively, Trump's reeting it up a lot more.

  10. #10
    Scarab Lord downnola's Avatar
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    I love how much bullshit Shalcker gets away with. I should start a thread called "Hey guys, what's worse "Holodomor" vs "helping Assad gas women and children in Syria?"
    Populists (and "national socialists") look at the supposedly secret deals that run the world "behind the scenes". Child's play. Except that childishness is sinister in adults.
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  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by lockedout View Post
    Most of this was going on before Trump was president.

    - - - Updated - - -



    The entire world would crumble.
    Seriously kid. Bright and wealth will move somewhere else, etc. 330m idiots do not govern the world unlike what your propaganda says.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by downnola View Post
    I love how much bullshit Shalcker gets away with. I should start a thread called "Hey guys, what's worse "Holodomor" vs "helping Assad gas women and children in Syria?"
    It is pretty clear that Holodomor would win out; scale is simply incomparable, up to 10 millions vs a few thousands at most, more likely a few hundreds.

    About even split between Iraq War and Trump is actually fairly surprising.

  13. #13
    The war is worse so far, what the fuck?

    Many thousand of innocents dead overseas versus Trump cratering his own country and destroying the GOP forever.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by CrowleyXIV View Post
    Both cases make me think "just dismantle the US"...
    I dig it, fuse with Canada, become the Federal Republic of America.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Shalcker View Post
    Better, worse, equal?

    Simple question.
    Bait poll is bait.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by ipaq View Post
    Seriously kid. Bright and wealth will move somewhere else, etc. 330m idiots do not govern the world unlike what your propaganda says.
    The world depends on America for almost everything. Especially the USD.

  17. #17
    How about a more subtle bait?

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by lockedout View Post
    The world depends on America for almost everything. Especially the USD.
    And when someone thinks they could depend on something else the USA make them by force--like the Irak which wanted to switch to EURO.

  19. #19
    Herald of the Titans D Luniz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Techno-Druid View Post
    I dig it, fuse with Canada, become the Federal Republic of America.
    I liked this game, but more and more Im starting to think this map is gonna be semi accurate in a few decades


  20. #20
    Bush is a war criminal who started an illegal war that led to the deaths of hundreds of thousands of people.

    The fact anybody would even try and argue that Trump has done anything worse shows quite how nuts everybody's become.
    BASIC CAMPFIRE for WARCHIEF UK Prime Minister!

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