Do you think it is possible to go back to the old community?

[Deleted]

Then maybe it's time we drive then out?

They are a emperor with no clothes. If you call them out publicly they collapse maybe it's time to make gaming about games again.

Drive who out?

And how? Changing the game?

Let me tell you how it is.
To create strong communities is not a matter of offering people "choice"
Its a matter of making it MANDATORY to group with people.

If you give people a choice between "solo" and "group"...people will choose "solo" almost everytime.

Its a matter of making the game inconvenient on purpose.

Do you think Blizzard have the balls to make the game inconvenient on purpose?!?! Not in a million years.
They are a business now.
This would make a stronger community but it would also drive out lazy players from playing the game.
And we all know we need those lazy players to pay a subscription.

[Nutrition]

Drive who out?

And how? Changing the game?

Let me tell you how it is.
To create strong communities is not a matter of offering people "choice"
Its a matter of making it MANDATORY to group with people.

If you give people a choice between "solo" and "group"...people will choose "solo" almost everytime.

Its a matter of making the game inconvenient on purpose.

Do you think Blizzard have the balls to make the game inconvenient on purpose?!?! Not in a million years.
They are a business now.
This would make a stronger community but it would also drive out lazy players from playing the game.
And we all know we need those lazy players to pay a subscription.

Hard to say to be honest. I could see a resurgence in core players again with how starved the market is it right now but it would need to be a rather slow change over.

Who knows maybe classic will be so popular it starts a slow burning change? All we can do is wait and see.

[SirBeef]

Debated where to post this and even now I'm not sure it wouldn't fit better on the classic forums but it does effect both games so figured I would toss it here.

Is it possible to have anything like the original wow community again given both the playerbase and Activisionblizzards changes to the game?

The moderation of the game constantly seems to be increasing the last tos update wrote out that blizzard is now even going to ban people for external actions such as Twitter,streaming,and Facebook.

The game now seems more built around queues then getting to know people and cross realm utterly destroyed any sense of community.

Do you think that things can ever be stepped back or is trying to turn the tide akin to closing the barn doors after the horses have bolted?

I don't get where this sentiment comes from. Maybe I was on a bad server, but people were just as big of dicks then as there were now. The only difference is it was harder to hide from it with name/server changes. People asked annoying questions, responded with shitty answers, racist and bigoted talk happened all the time, spam happened all the time. The only difference I really see is you do not need to invest a ton of time to find a group to get something done. Personally that is a good thing. I can't tell you how many hours I wasted just trying to find a group to do the Onyxia chain in BRD only to have people bail as we found a tank, or after the first boss, and having to go back to SW/IF to spam LFM all over again.

[SirBeef]

Hard to say to be honest. I could see a resurgence in core players again with how starved the market is it right now but it would need to be a rather slow change over.

Who knows maybe classic will be so popular it starts a slow burning change? All we can do is wait and see.

I would consider myself a core player. Someone who migrated from EQ to WoW during Beta and have been here the whole time and I welcome these convenience changes. Classic, IMO, will be akin to WoD. It will start off huge than die off quickly after people realize it's not really that good, especially with the loss of all the QoL implementations over the years. It will continue to slowly lose players due to the fact there will be no progression. It will be 1.12 with everything available from day one, unless that changes, so people will get bored and leave. It will hover around 100k or so. Now, if you consider that to be popular, then maybe.

[Deleted]

Sorry old timer the old community has moved on. You will have to endure Fork-knife mouthbreathers who jam out to face tattoo rappers with colorful hair now.

[Canderous1]

the community you exist in is pretty much up to you. i love my wow community. my guild and circle of friends are a perfect fit for me, and we are protective of that environment.

people make so many assumptions about what causes their toxic community, do nothing but throw blame around. my advice to you is instead of tossing blame on forums, do something about it. find a community that suits you. they are out there. never in wow's existence has the community been 100% awesome. there has always been toxicity.

[SirBeef]

Simple as that! The rest is just activision/blizzard/whoever trying to milk the cash cow that is casual players with not much time or will to invest time in games. The so called connections and rules regarding the connections are just the mentality of outreaching people while on their facebook to milk them there also while not hurting any feelings because hurt feelings reduce sales.

Sick and tired of seeing how content for the sake of content has become content for the sake of getting another buck. And sadly those bucks didn't make these people dress any better through the years either. Still the same shitty blizzard shirts omg. And get a rolex for fucks sake your re making millions.

I high 6 figures a year and don't own a watch. I don't subscribe to the lifestyle. I find it mostly a waste of money. Hell I still drive my 2008 Civic with almost 250K miles.

- - - Updated - - -

the community you exist in is pretty much up to you. i love my wow community. my guild and circle of friends are a perfect fit for me, and we are protective of that environment.

people make so many assumptions about what causes their toxic community, do nothing but throw blame around. my advice to you is instead of tossing blame on forums, do something about it. find a community that suits you. they are out there. never in wow's existence has the community been 100% awesome. there has always been toxicity.

I have said this for years. There is nothing stopping someone from going out and being nice to others, starting up groups, or adding friends to do stuff with later on. You make of it what you want to.

[Nutrition]

I would consider myself a core player. Someone who migrated from EQ to WoW during Beta and have been here the whole time and I welcome these convenience changes. Classic, IMO, will be akin to WoD. It will start off huge than die off quickly after people realize it's not really that good, especially with the loss of all the QoL implementations over the years. It will continue to slowly lose players due to the fact there will be no progression. It will be 1.12 with everything available from day one, unless that changes, so people will get bored and leave. It will hover around 100k or so. Now, if you consider that to be popular, then maybe.

Will have to see. I would argue current wow has nearly no progression. Afk till 940 then do heroic once for the mount unless you can commit to mythic raiding.

Compare that to the journey of simply completing the end game five mana and I'm not as convinced it will be as starved as you believe it will be. Quality of life isn't quality of content.

[Deleted]

I have said this for years. There is nothing stopping someone from going out and being nice to others, starting up groups, or adding friends to do stuff with later on. You make of it what you want to.

The problem is that when you start offering people "choice", people will always choose the path of least resistance.

Let me give you one example.
Vanilla WoW.
You spend 20min on trade chat making a group.
You spend 15 min walking to the low level dungeon.
First pull its a wipe because your tank is a noob.

What do you do?
A) Kick the tank and wait 45min for a new player and risk losing the entire group.
or
B) You teach the shit out of your tank and tell him how to play the game. You help him in any way possible.

Mandatory Inconvenience breeds stronger communities.
When there is no "choice", when it is mandatory to pick the path of most resistence, you have a stronger sense of community.

[FelPlague]

its because the world has changed
people work more hours in their lives now more then any before, people are unable to retire and people are working all day every day just to get by.
so sadly people dont want to do anything that "wastes time" so having to put your time into someone else who has no respect for your time.
nighthold heroic im 966 yesterday, looking for a quick nighthold.
now im fine with people smoking, i myself smoke the mad kuush once in awhile.
but the tank does not soak a single slam of krosus, does not tank swap, and falls into the water when bridge breaks, causing us to wipe.
turns out he is super duper baked... now that is someone choosing to massivly drop their reaction times and focus, to then waste everyone's time by causing us to wipe.
almost caused another when he fell in but tank could keep us alive long enough to kill him.

When i told him he was a prick and said along the line of i am fine with people smoking but when you choose to do so and waste others time that is not cool.
he pulled the "its just a game" and "Your an elitist prick" and "people bitching about people having fun"

I am fine with people being bad, we all were at some point. if someone is bad and goes "sorry i am bad" sure, good on you for understanding it.
i am fine with carrying a person or two in a raid, as long as they understand they are. I joined a mythic guldan was nervous so went full survival spec and gear... did second to last dps and got the mount from personal loot, i felt SO BAD i apologized so many times.... Not giving up the mount but i was sorry, as they said "alright your parses as of recent (have been having a rough time) are not amazing but we will try ya"

But if people are going to SUCK, waste peoples time, and be massive pricks about it... fuck off.
ran into a raid, the top dps literally said "Hey we have some people doing 4x less then me, they are not from your server or guild, can we remove them?"
kicked then the raid lead and a few others went on a huge rant about how elitist the dude was and how hes overcompensating with his dps and...
like wtf? i just left...



the world has changed, people have less free time no on average, so people wasting peoples time is annoying.

[alexchaos]

This^ by 1000% the community as it was is long gone.. And yes some of the young people of today are entitled brats..

More like the young internet communities were raised to do and say anything they want on the internet. Back in the day if you were a douche, you were likely one in real life too. Now kids change personality when they get on the net because they know they're anonymous and people can't reach them (to a certain point). This has damaged the internet badly imo.

Sure real entitled brats do exist and they also did exsit back then, but it's much worse now..

[Alkizon]

Shadowpunkz
Mandatory Inconvenience breeds stronger communities.
When there is no "choice", when it is mandatory to pick the path of most resistence, you have a stronger sense of community.

Well, I won't call it "mandatory" because there is still alternative and if this tank is really that bad, you will have to do all these manipulations with new tank search. Ie let's formulate it better this way: "that" game offers a polite solution as a more easy one - that's how it sounds better. And also this is mutual polite decision and tank will be interested to listen to all your instructions in order to not get into "black list" even if not for server, but at least for separate guild.

That's how it's done. Simple and neat. Game doesn't forbid you to be an asshole, but it doesn't encourage, rather educates, makes penalty, and this is done through game collective, through community.

[grexly75]

More like the young internet communities were raised to do and say anything they want on the internet. Back in the day if you were a douche, you were likely one in real life too. Now kids change personality when they get on the net because they know they're anonymous and people can't reach them (to a certain point). This has damaged the internet badly imo.

Sure real entitled brats do exist and they also did exsit back then, but it's much worse now..

Oh yeah they existed back then, but as you said it is a 1000 times worse now and will only get even worse..

[Nutrition]

its because the world has changed
people work more hours in their lives now more then any before, people are unable to retire and people are working all day every day just to get by.
so sadly people dont want to do anything that "wastes time" so having to put your time into someone else who has no respect for your time.
nighthold heroic im 966 yesterday, looking for a quick nighthold.
now im fine with people smoking, i myself smoke the mad kuush once in awhile.
but the tank does not soak a single slam of krosus, does not tank swap, and falls into the water when bridge breaks, causing us to wipe.
turns out he is super duper baked... now that is someone choosing to massivly drop their reaction times and focus, to then waste everyone's time by causing us to wipe.
almost caused another when he fell in but tank could keep us alive long enough to kill him.

When i told him he was a prick and said along the line of i am fine with people smoking but when you choose to do so and waste others time that is not cool.
he pulled the "its just a game" and "Your an elitist prick" and "people bitching about people having fun"

I am fine with people being bad, we all were at some point. if someone is bad and goes "sorry i am bad" sure, good on you for understanding it.
i am fine with carrying a person or two in a raid, as long as they understand they are. I joined a mythic guldan was nervous so went full survival spec and gear... did second to last dps and got the mount from personal loot, i felt SO BAD i apologized so many times.... Not giving up the mount but i was sorry, as they said "alright your parses as of recent (have been having a rough time) are not amazing but we will try ya"

But if people are going to SUCK, waste peoples time, and be massive pricks about it... fuck off.
ran into a raid, the top dps literally said "Hey we have some people doing 4x less then me, they are not from your server or guild, can we remove them?"
kicked then the raid lead and a few others went on a huge rant about how elitist the dude was and how hes overcompensating with his dps and...
like wtf? i just left...



the world has changed, people have less free time no on average, so people wasting peoples time is annoying.

I think we need to go back to being able to properly insult people. You call a person a faggot with enough force and it hits home. There are a lot of reasons why people act out the way they do and part of it is the passive attitude people take and how protected the bad actors are.

Cross realm would need to die. Moderation would need to be drastically cut back. We were cut throats once demanding people get good or get lost and with any luck we can be cut throats again. All it takes is small changes here and there and eventually the world can change it's how we got here.

[Akka]

You can't get the old community back because the player base has changed as well. The environment as you call it call it, has attracted a different type of gamer and pushed away the old guard.

That's exactly what I meant.
And it implies that if Blizzard change the environment again, it can chase away and attract different types of gamers.

[Deleted]

Well, I won't call it "mandatory" because there is still alternative and if this tank is really that bad, you will have to do all these manipulations with new tank search. Ie to formulate it better this way: "that" game offers a polite solution as a more easy one - that's how it sounds better. And this mutual polite decision and tank in order to not get into "black list" even if not a server, but a separate guild, will be interested to listen to all your instructions.

That's how it's done. Simple and neat. Game doesn't forbid you to be an asshole, but it doesn't encourage, educates, and this is done through game collective, through community.

But the polite solution the game offers creates apathy towards other players because it offers an IMENSE convenience.
Its so much convenience that you no longer feel invested in other people.
You can just instantly queue up or find another person in an instant. People you will never meet again.

Extreme convenience breeds apathy. Apathy towards other people.

I will give you the example of the "Monster Hunter" franchise/game

In previous Monster Hunters we had an extreme personal, close, deep experience with the community because the game was inconvenient and required grouping with other people in a Town by placing "Quests" on a board.
Very inconvenient and oldschool.
But this created an environment where people stuck together and met several people along the way. It created a social environment.

In Monster Hunter World (the most recent monster hunter game) they destroyed everything!
No more inconveniences.
You can just queue up and find random people you will never meet again. Imagine LFD. Yes, Monster Hunter implemented LFD.

This made the game utter garbage.

You no longer meet new people along the way and make friends because of EXTREME CONVENIENCE. (LFD system)
You just play with random different people you will never meet again.

[Alkizon]

@Shadowpunkz

It's more like a misunderstanding between us. I meant that neither old game rules nor new ones make any decision as mandatory. But if old rules encourage polite decision, new ones on contrary encourage you to be a little pigy. Hence element of learning in the game, about which we spoke earlier.

Ie, I didn't object to you, I just added what was said.

Sorry, bad english on my part. Sometimes i dont understand

To be honest, me either

[Deleted]

@Shadowpunkz

It's more like a misunderstanding between us. I meant that neither old game rules nor new ones make any decision a mandate. But if old rules encourage polite decision, new ones on contrary encourage you to be a little pigy. Hence element of learning in the game, about which we spoke earlier.

Ie, I didn't object to you, I just added what was said.

Sorry, bad english on my part. Sometimes i dont understand

[CasualFilth]

Impossible. It's like asking people from the 21st century to act like people from the 19th.

[Drusin]

I believe that every game that survives this long, will eventually take a huge turn into the abyss - once the game starts to REALLY die down, Blizz will spend less money on the game, and numbers will tumble: in turn only the DIE HARDS will keep playing.

I think it's better the game continues how it's going, I don't want it to die - but that's the only time a game can get back to it's roots IMO

If the subs get low enough Blizz can move us all to the same realm and we can be bros :O