Remove crushing/critical hits from bosses to make druid/paladin tanks viable

[Deleted]

Warriors were the best (only) raid tanks in Classic because of one skill: Shield Block. Assuming you had 25% of basic avoidance: parry, dodge, miss, block then Shield Block made warriors uncrittable (200% damage of normal hit) and uncrushable (150% damage of normal hit) by raid bosses.

Paladins could get uncrittable by using a mishmash of gear by stacking defense rating. A feral druid could never become uncrittable. Both paladins and druid could never become uncrushable because of the lack of a Shield Block like ability that would push crushing blows of the bosses attack table (defense rating reduces the chance to be crit, but not the chance to be crushed).

It's exactly these critical and crushing hits (if you get two in a row) that kill tanks in raids. The chance to get a critical hit from a boss is about ~5%, the chance to get a crushing blow is about 15%. This makes the chance to get 2 consecutive crits or crushing blows about ~4/100. This will happen a bunch of times (~5) during a 5min raid boss fight.

My suggestion for Classic would be to remove the critical hits and crushing blows from the boss attack table (and slightly increase their damage to compensate), (or give prot paladins and feral druid a skill to do that). This would remove the problem that is holding back these two tank specs. (There's also the topic of the gear, but changing that would be a no-go in my opinion.).

[rogoth]

in a word: NO!

if you can't handle the fact that for raiding your only option is a warrior tank then this is not going to be for you, if you want to play a paladin get used to the idea of being a buff bot and healer/support, and forget playing a druid of any capacity outside of 'for teh lolz'.

[Deleted]

"We want classic servers!"

Blizzard introduces classic servers

"NO NOT LIKE THAT!"

[klaps_05]

If you do that, then alliance has an extra class that can tank - then i want shamans to be able to tank too.

[voidillusion]

Please don't. Things like Defense Rate and Crushing hits are one of the big plus for me regarding tanking in vanilla.

[Chaelexi]

Warriors were the best (only) raid tanks in Classic because of one skill: Shield Block. Assuming you had 25% of basic avoidance: parry, dodge, miss, block then Shield Block made warriors uncrittable (200% damage of normal hit) and uncrushable (150% damage of normal hit) by raid bosses.

Paladins could get uncrittable by using a mishmash of gear by stacking defense rating. A feral druid could never become uncrittable. Both paladins and druid could never become uncrushable because of the lack of a Shield Block like ability that would push crushing blows of the bosses attack table (defense rating reduces the chance to be crit, but not the chance to be crushed).

It's exactly these critical and crushing hits (if you get two in a row) that kill tanks in raids. The chance to get a critical hit from a boss is about ~5%, the chance to get a crushing blow is about 15%. This makes the chance to get 2 consecutive crits or crushing blows about ~4/100. This will happen a bunch of times (~5) during a 5min raid boss fight.

My suggestion for Classic would be to remove the critical hits and crushing blows from the boss attack table (and slightly increase their damage to compensate), (or give prot paladins and feral druid a skill to do that). This would remove the problem that is holding back these two tank specs. (There's also the topic of the gear, but changing that would be a no-go in my opinion.).

Prot paly will never be successful in Classic unless they rebuild from the bottom up into the BC or later prot paly. It did not work and it was no just the crushing hits

[Lochton]

Warriors were the best (only) raid tanks in Classic because of one skill: Shield Block. Assuming you had 25% of basic avoidance: parry, dodge, miss, block then Shield Block made warriors uncrittable (200% damage of normal hit) and uncrushable (150% damage of normal hit) by raid bosses.

Paladins could get uncrittable by using a mishmash of gear by stacking defense rating. A feral druid could never become uncrittable. Both paladins and druid could never become uncrushable because of the lack of a Shield Block like ability that would push crushing blows of the bosses attack table (defense rating reduces the chance to be crit, but not the chance to be crushed).

It's exactly these critical and crushing hits (if you get two in a row) that kill tanks in raids. The chance to get a critical hit from a boss is about ~5%, the chance to get a crushing blow is about 15%. This makes the chance to get 2 consecutive crits or crushing blows about ~4/100. This will happen a bunch of times (~5) during a 5min raid boss fight.

My suggestion for Classic would be to remove the critical hits and crushing blows from the boss attack table (and slightly increase their damage to compensate), (or give prot paladins and feral druid a skill to do that). This would remove the problem that is holding back these two tank specs. (There's also the topic of the gear, but changing that would be a no-go in my opinion.).

No thank you. Besiddes, I don't recall that being the main problem. As well, the old museum should be about the olden days, not balancing for convenience.

[freezion]

Removing crushing blows still wouldnt make paladins viable.
It's their entire skill set, itemization and mana regen (or lack thereof) that's the issue.

Removing crushing blows and critical hits is not gonna fix their mana issues, Threat generation issues and shitty itemization.

[Erous]

The coolest part of vanilla wow, or event up to WOTLK was having to basically MATH out the proper gear and enchants to be viable for your spec. Like meeting defense thresholds for mitigating crushing blows. Or like mitigating parry chance with the proper hit rating percentage. Tanks could choose between spiky damage and stack defensive stats, or pile on HP gear to become more sustainable over time.

Can't lose the fact that a lot of early WoW was min maxing stats to be effective and break points HAD to be met to get through encounters.

[Frolk]

Wanna tank?
Guess u gotta pick warrior

[SpellCleave]

I hear tell pally can tank dungeons. So that'll be fun. Otherwise, nah, no change.

[babyback]

I hear tell pally can tank dungeons. So that'll be fun. Otherwise, nah, no change.

Shamans could tank some dungeons too but that doesn’t mean that people would take you as a tank if you aren’t a warrior.

[Triks]

Warriors were the best (only) raid tanks in Classic because of one skill: Shield Block. Assuming you had 25% of basic avoidance: parry, dodge, miss, block then Shield Block made warriors uncrittable (200% damage of normal hit) and uncrushable (150% damage of normal hit) by raid bosses.

Paladins could get uncrittable by using a mishmash of gear by stacking defense rating. A feral druid could never become uncrittable. Both paladins and druid could never become uncrushable because of the lack of a Shield Block like ability that would push crushing blows of the bosses attack table (defense rating reduces the chance to be crit, but not the chance to be crushed).

It's exactly these critical and crushing hits (if you get two in a row) that kill tanks in raids. The chance to get a critical hit from a boss is about ~5%, the chance to get a crushing blow is about 15%. This makes the chance to get 2 consecutive crits or crushing blows about ~4/100. This will happen a bunch of times (~5) during a 5min raid boss fight.

My suggestion for Classic would be to remove the critical hits and crushing blows from the boss attack table (and slightly increase their damage to compensate), (or give prot paladins and feral druid a skill to do that). This would remove the problem that is holding back these two tank specs. (There's also the topic of the gear, but changing that would be a no-go in my opinion.).

This will still not make bears and prots viable. Do you know what are the things warriors have that both druids and prots don't have? That's right - defensive cooldowns. Prots became MT material as late as WoTLK when they got Ardent Defender. Before that they were great for trash and add bosses but for stuff like Kael and Illidan in TBC you still wanted a warrior.

[cparle87]

The coolest part of vanilla wow, or event up to WOTLK was having to basically MATH out the proper gear and enchants to be viable for your spec. Like meeting defense thresholds for mitigating crushing blows. Or like mitigating parry chance with the proper hit rating percentage. Tanks could choose between spiky damage and stack defensive stats, or pile on HP gear to become more sustainable over time.

Can't lose the fact that a lot of early WoW was min maxing stats to be effective and break points HAD to be met to get through encounters.

By math out you mean go to a third party website to tell you what to do.

[Huntaer]

no .

[arkanon]

#NoChanges!

At all!

Except the changes i want, those are MANDATORY for the success of classic. Every other change is stupid though.

[Sungamnori]

I hear tell pally can tank dungeons. So that'll be fun. Otherwise, nah, no change.

Hell ya, back in the day in BWL gear and a mix of prot/holy spec I could tank undead instances like Stratholme. Just needed DPS to wait a few sec for me to get my AOEs off. I even had a whole set of Thorns gear.. that was fun.

I plan on rolling a Pally again in Classic. I have no desire to tank raids with it. I will heal like I'm supposed to.

If I want to DPS or Tank something, I can go do a 5man or jump on my Pally on the modern servers.

That is the way of things.

[Projectmars]

Warriors were the best (only) raid tanks in Classic because of one skill: Shield Block. Assuming you had 25% of basic avoidance: parry, dodge, miss, block then Shield Block made warriors uncrittable (200% damage of normal hit) and uncrushable (150% damage of normal hit) by raid bosses.

Paladins could get uncrittable by using a mishmash of gear by stacking defense rating. A feral druid could never become uncrittable. Both paladins and druid could never become uncrushable because of the lack of a Shield Block like ability that would push crushing blows of the bosses attack table (defense rating reduces the chance to be crit, but not the chance to be crushed).

It's exactly these critical and crushing hits (if you get two in a row) that kill tanks in raids. The chance to get a critical hit from a boss is about ~5%, the chance to get a crushing blow is about 15%. This makes the chance to get 2 consecutive crits or crushing blows about ~4/100. This will happen a bunch of times (~5) during a 5min raid boss fight.

My suggestion for Classic would be to remove the critical hits and crushing blows from the boss attack table (and slightly increase their damage to compensate), (or give prot paladins and feral druid a skill to do that). This would remove the problem that is holding back these two tank specs. (There's also the topic of the gear, but changing that would be a no-go in my opinion.).

Stick to live.

[Tech614]

If you wanted vanilla you get vanilla.

That means the only thing tanking a raid boss is a Warrior.

If you didn't want vanilla maybe you should of asked for something else /shrug

[A Chozo]

Hell no, unviable druid/paladin tanks are a critical part of the Classic WoW experience. You can't trash that cultural aspect like this.