Official High Elf Discussion Megathread

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

My question here is, why are people are trying to dismantle the "high elf case" by saying there is nothing wrong with how Void Elves were introduced?

They are related issues, sure, but tangentially. Yet when people are starting to imply that Void Elves were successfully integrated it just seems you are using every argument as a anti helf launching point. Do y'all really think VE where successfully implemented? Or are you bringing that up only because you are using it as a anti high elf point?

Void Elves continue to have the most half assed implementation of any race in game, and what is worst is that they had so much more potential. They are a cool idea, but so hastily put together. And no matter how much their lore gets build up on the future (I sure hope so because I still like them) their implementation would most certainly not be retroactively made better.

The fact that we went to recruit VE before VE even existed is simply the most notorious example of how badly they were introduced into the world. HM and NB were introduced at the start of Legion, LF Draenei where a swerve, but we have had knowledge of the Army of Light for a while now so at least there was that.

VE still are just a random group of blood elves that got exiled after delving into the void, which only by sheer coincidence happened during the same time Alleria ate a Naaru and became the first Void Elf. It's just bad writing, why are people defending that?

It's not even that the VE backstory by itself is unsalvageable; it could have worked far better had Umbric and his followers been introduced earlier -maybe as Priest Hall lore- as a group of BE delving into the void against the wishes of Lor'themar and Silvermoon, maybe even make them Scryer affiliated to show they are more neutral than horde. The problem with VE will always remain that they were not build up as a group on any way, shape or form before they were introduced. -and I really mean as a group, not thematically-

[Hawkknight97]

My question here is, why are people are trying to dismantle the "high elf case" by saying there is nothing wrong with how Void Elves were introduced?

They are related issues, sure, but tangentially. Yet when people are starting to imply that Void Elves were successfully integrated it just seems you are using every argument as a anti helf launching point. Do y'all really think VE where successfully implemented? Or are you bringing that up only because you are using it as a anti high elf point?

Void Elves continue to have the most half assed implementation of any race in game, and what is worst is that they had so much more potential. They are a cool idea, but so hastily put together. And no matter how much their lore gets build up on the future (I sure hope so because I still like them) their implementation would most certainly not be retroactively made better.

The fact that we went to recruit VE before VE even existed is simply the most notorious example of how badly they were introduced into the world. HM and NB were introduced at the start of Legion, LF Draenei where a swerve, but we have had knowledge of the Army of Light for a while now so at least there was that.

VE still are just a random group of blood elves that got exiled after delving into the void, which only by sheer coincidence happened during the same time Alleria ate a Naaru and became the first Void Elf. It's just bad writing, why are people defending that?

It's not even that the VE backstory by itself is unsalvageable; it could have worked far better had Umbric and his followers been introduced earlier -maybe as Priest Hall lore- as a group of BE delving into the void against the wishes of Lor'themar and Silvermoon, maybe even make them Scryer affiliated to show they are more neutral than horde. The problem with VE will always remain that they were not build up as a group on any way, shape or form before they were introduced. -and I really mean as a group, not thematically-

To answer your question since no one on this website doesn't even understand anything at all about why people do not like Void Elves nor are they the High Elves wanted in the first place.

Problem with Void Elves is they don't have a good lore base story like High Elves. Only Backstory we got from them is they are just group of random exiles from Silvermoon who studied the Void only to then get turned into blue/purple elves but with void magic. They are not even the Silver Covenant that we know for so long nor are they the Warcraft 2 High Elves at all. Only High Elf that is Warcraft 2 Quel'dorei High Elf is Alleria. But here's the thing one void powered elf doesn't make up for the rest of the race. In fact it feels very forced and pretty much asspulled.

Also another thing about Void Elves is they just a Blue/purple elf race that the color scheme has been done to death so many times. Its starting to become very generic and very dull. Also if Void Elves were High Elves then why aren't they like Alleria? Again this is also another reason why people do not like Void Elves.

The fact is its really hard to even play Void Elves in terms of roleplaying if your just another blueberry elf with no backstory. You may come up with one as a Blood Elf but not a true High Elf. This is problems that we are having with the Void Elves and its gotten worst due to Antis saying that they are great thing to game where clearly they are not. It just goes to show that World of Warcraft is really starting to lose the Warcraft 2 touch already.

[Varx]

One could argue that draenie were also introduced in a similar manner and now they're one of the alliance's most beloved races.

In fact, not only did they have 0 back story, they were just added to the game without any unlockable quest. Even worse was that they were a retcon from etablished lore.

[Hawkknight97]

One could argue that draenie were also introduced in a similar manner and now they're one of the alliance's most beloved races.

In fact, not only did they have 0 back story, they were just added to the game without any unlockable quest. Even worse was that they were a retcon from etablished lore.

You mean Broken Draenei from Warcraft 3. How are Draenei a retcon race again?

[Sigxy]

Obelisk Kai is outright lying about the High Elf discord. Never seen such a discussion or comments in it as he suggests. Maybe in these forums as I haven't followed, but not in the High Elf discord, which I started following after Taliesin and Evitel suggested it and Alurna's thread. How would he even know unless he has a stealth account on there, which in and of itself should show how nuts he's gone over the topic if he's gone to those lengths.

Uhu...

https://i.imgur.com/loT9CqI.png

"Or wished death or unemployment on the developers. All of which has been done by the pro High Elf community."

There's screen shots from the Discord in this very thread regarding this, unless they've been removed. It's very real and absolutely true.

Webbrowser history is great at times~

[Gurluas]

One could argue that draenie were also introduced in a similar manner and now they're one of the alliance's most beloved races.

In fact, not only did they have 0 back story, they were just added to the game without any unlockable quest. Even worse was that they were a retcon from etablished lore.

Draenei weren't one trick ponies. As someone here said, if a big group of High elves also got affected alongside the Void elves, and the High elves would be seeking a cure and not embracing their Voided state, I think that would solve a lot of the issues with Void elves.

Void elves only have one source atm, and it's people who embraced the void willingly, and that's assuming the High/Blood elves in the rift can become Void elves, otherwise Void elves are uniquely Umbric's little group.

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

One could argue that draenie were also introduced in a similar manner and now they're one of the alliance's most beloved races.

In fact, not only did they have 0 back story, they were just added to the game without any unlockable quest. Even worse was that they were a retcon from etablished lore.

Could one argue that? really?

Come on dude, we are talking about EXTREMELY different lore and implementation approaches.

Draenei came with 2 exclusive leveling zones that we had to know them, + all of outland, WHILE also being a retcon which means they were retroactively inserted into the continuty. Whatever personal opinion anyone has on retcon, the whole point of them is to make something a more interwoven part of the lore.

The "similarities" between the draenei introduction and the VE one is so surface level and unfitting that I wonder you really thought you have a point.

For real, Allied races work a lot different in terms of introduction as it is, they don't get their 2 leveling zones like the rest, so other means had to be found, Highmountain, Suramar and Argus function as introductory zones for these races, and that's as accurate a comparison gets, they still got a lot less than Draenei got.

Draenei where far better implemented, yet they still got pushback. Void Elves got a fraction of a fraction of that thought and care. If you wish to compare, be my guest, only shows how utterly mediocre the VE implementation is in comparison, Why would you want to compare them is beyond me.

[Darththeo]

Uhu...

https://i.imgur.com/loT9CqI.png

"Or wished death or unemployment on the developers. All of which has been done by the pro High Elf community."



Webbrowser history is great at times~

That's a bit of a stretch to say they "wished ... unemployment on the developers." They are stating their opinion he should be fired, that's not something I would classify as a wish but rather a statement that they would fire a person if they could. Also, just because you are fired doesn't make you unemployed ... it makes you jobless. You have to be out of work and seeking work to be classified as unemployed ... just saying. I know that's like splitting hairs, but it is the definition used by the Department of Labor in the United States.

[Sigxy]

That's a bit of a stretch to say they "wished ... unemployment on the developers." They are stating their opinion he should be fired, that's not something I would classify as a wish but rather a statement that they would fire a person if they could. Also, just because you are fired doesn't make you unemployed ... it makes you jobless. You have to be out of work and seeking work to be classified as unemployed ... just saying. I know that's like splitting hairs, but it is the definition used by the Department of Labor in the United States.

Yyyes it is because everyone understands that this statement meant him getting fired from the company. Although, given how many people on the discord that wanted him outright fired, wouldn't be surprised if they wanted him to remain unemployed for the rest of his life as well.

I do wonder, though, how many of the people who said they wouldn't play anymore, are still playing. '.'

And yes I still have almost all of the links. The only thing I don't have, sadly, was the side-by-side comparision of a post that was threatening, then after Aery had joined, that post was a lot less threatening.

And let's not forget the couple of times they spoke ill of Kai. >_>

[Deleted]

None of those come even close to do justice to the races.
You can't really understand night elf lore without the Well of Eternity, War of the Ancients, Elune, druids.
You can't explain human lore without delving into the seven kingdoms, the trolls wars and the wars against the Horde.
Dwarves have several clans and a major civil war.

And so on.

Summarizing the races into a single line does not work. The fact that void elves can be summed like that only shows how lacking the race is.

You cannot write a summary about the first line starting a book. Maybe give Void Elves some time to develop first, before you come here screaming bloody murder?

[Jaewalk]

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE.... No.more.elves.

[Sluvs]

None of those come even close to do justice to the races.
You can't really understand night elf lore without the Well of Eternity, War of the Ancients, Elune, druids.
You can't explain human lore without delving into the seven kingdoms, the trolls wars and the wars against the Horde.
Dwarves have several clans and a major civil war.

And so on.

Summarizing the races into a single line does not work. The fact that void elves can be summed like that only shows how lacking the race is.

And you cant really understand void elves without understanding the void and how it operates or how Alleria came to master the void, the same thing with lightforged draenei and the light. And we were talking about their origins, and their origins CAN be summed in one line. That was my point. You are talking about things that happened later in their storyline, so ofc they will have more substance, and VE are just beginning their story, so ofc they will have less substance.

VE might not have a lot of lore, but they do have it. And dismissing it because you don't like it, is dishonest.

[FlubberPuddy]

You cannot write a summary about the first line starting a book. Maybe give Void Elves some time to develop first, before you come here screaming bloody murder?

"developing void elves" will just be more learning about the Void itself, it won't have anything specific to do with Void Elves at all, any creature that gets affected by the Void in a similar way or tangentially similar way will have similar showings.

This is why I bet we see Locus-Walker able to share his teachings: because it's all pretty much related the same way.

It's not like the Draenei in that there's a whole sect of Void Elves on their own planet with their own civilization just waiting to be discovered.

It also doesn't take away their shoddy introduction, that will forever be a thing.

Lastly, Void Elves HAVE gotten a bit more development and what did it amount to? That they're all Blood Elves under Magister Umbric who weren't okay with joining up with the Horde and need to prove their loyalties to the Alliance.

Not sure what extra development you're trying to look for? Genuinely I am curious, from anyone who think further development will somehow help Void Elves.

Learning about the Void =/= learning about Void Elves. And the extra info we know about them so far isn't mind-blowing, if anything it just reinforced they aren't the High Elves that have been with the Alliance.

Plus they break their own rule of being an Allied Race, in that we learn about their story after we recruit them. They will always remain an outlier unless Blizzard once again decides to have players recruit an Allied Race without much story and then develop them post-recruitment. No other Allied Race does this so far. And Blizzard have time and again said Allied Races you learn about their story before recruiting them.

[DeicideUH]

You cannot write a summary about the first line starting a book. Maybe give Void Elves some time to develop first, before you come here screaming bloody murder?

Except we are not talking about the first line of a book, we are talking about the entire first chapter. And that chapter was hastily put together with no care for any details.

And you cant really understand void elves without understanding the void and how it operates or how Alleria came to master the void, the same thing with lightforged draenei and the light. And we were talking about their origins, and their origins CAN be summed in one line. That was my point. You are talking about things that happened later in their storyline, so ofc they will have more substance, and VE are just beginning their story, so ofc they will have less substance.

Oh, so all that matters is that they use the void? The story of those elves, their numbers, their names, their outlook on things, how the transformation changed their view on things, nothing that makes them a people matters?

Lightforged draenei have little lore, but it's still a ton more than the void elves. Just by looking at their support cast we can see them way more varied than void elves. Lightforged draenei have characters like T'Paartos, Y'mera, Enaara or Telaamon to diversify them, as well as supporting cast like Quoram or Lothraxion. Void elves have Umbric, and that's it.

Heck, the LF recruitment story with T'Paartos has way more about what means to be a Lightforged than the entire void elf storyline so far can show us about the void elves. The only elf with void powers that was deeply explored was Alleria, and her story has nothing in common with Umbric and the dozen nameless elves that followed him and lived in a floating rock in the literal mid of nowhere.

VE might not have a lot of lore, but they do have it. And dismissing it because you don't like it, is dishonest.

I can't dislike what doesn't exist. I can dislike the absence of it, thought.

[Zulkhan]

It's fascinating that this thread is still going on.

I would love to have the same dedication of a few years ago, now I just feel boredom and exhaustation thinking about repeating the same basic logic over and over and over again.

[Gurluas]

Well the High elf cause has grown and shrunk over the years, the flame may be reduced to an ember, but it will never die. And one day it will start a wildfire.

[Hawkknight97]

Not to add more fuel to whole High Elf/Playable High Elves Drama. But honestly if blizzard had put in much effort into making Void Elves looking more like the High Elf rangers from Warcraft 2 to be like Alleria while still having the void theme but with Wild Hairstyles and tattoos. That I would be fine with it. If there was a two forum for the void elves to be normal High Elves just like the worgen than I wouldn't have any problem with overdone color scheme of blue and purple skin. If there was a high elf backstory to the void elves like the whole Stronghold on outlands being attacked by the void or some lost island within outlands. Then maybe just maybe none of this whole crazy insane drama about the high elf controversy wouldn't happen. But because blizzard didn't do it right and because blizzard only gave blue blood elves to the alliance it's sadly never going to end. Just like with the No Flying controversy and now.

To be really honestly I don't give a crap about the model nor eye color. That's not really what makes a high elf special nor interesting. People want to play them because of the story/lore behind them. People want to play them because of the theme. Yea sure Blood Elves have the little bit of the same thing but not really compare to High Elves. Theme of the High Elves/Quel'dorei is that they have a wood elf ranger theme to them they have a Warcraft 2 aspect of them. With Void Elves I just don't get that theme nor feeling at all. Void Elves are the same theme as blood elves but void theme. If Blizzard had made the Void Elves more interesting because of the Wood elf ranger theme to them with tattoos and wild hairstyles while still having the void theme then I wouldn't mind them too much. But sadly thanks to whole rejection of original elves like High Elves. We're never going to get the Warcraft 2 High Elves ever again.

Some people like the Antis may say that Blood Elves have them. But honestly Blood Elves are more of a magic society elven race than Quel'dorei High Elves. In fact That's what makes Blood Elves more different than their Warcraft 2 counterparts. Crimson, Green, Golden Elven society who once had a gone down the path of twisted evil deeds of sucking out magic from creatures to enslaving holy light beings to now a elven race that is bit too proud and blind. Honestly I want Blood Elves to go back to their ways during TBC instead of being Altmer Dominion Faction.

Its just I want this ridiculous drama to end. Ok. I don't care for the Model like I said. If it had Night Elven Model but more detailed and better. Then I'll be fine with it. If it was a Human Model but more effort was put into it and Make Half Elves look more like Quel'dorei Warcraft 2 High Elves. Then that too would be fine. Point being I or anyone who wanted high elves just wanted to play a original different color skin Elven race than just the overdone boring dull color scheme of blue and purple. But sadly thanks to Ion not seeing the reason difference between High Elves and Blood Elves and not putting effort into Void Elves being Warcraft 2 High Elves. We're never going to see any original Warcraft 2 race ever again.

Because after months and months of this pointless drama/fight arguments World of Warcraft will no longer be Warcraft anymore without any original Elven races like High Elves. I just don't see any Warcraft 2 Allied Races being added. BFA would have been a great time for them but its already too late and just doesn't feel like original RTS anymore.

[Traveler Voltin]

why would you revive this?

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

why would you revive this?

Darkspear (and High Elf threads) Never Die

[Amnaught]

So, in this image, we see Sylvanas, Saurfang, Nathanos... And a dying elf. Presumably Vareesa.

If it is Vareesa, doesn't it make sense that Alleria would join and take over the Silver Covenant, leading them to the Void? They would establish themselves as anti-blood elves, their own race, and we'd finally hear the end of all of this playable high elf stuff. It'd end the conversation, there are no more high elves, they all joined the Horde or Alliance as Blood or Void elves.