Developer Interview, Prot Paladin BfA Feedback, Blue Posts, WoW History

[Deleted]

Legion is definitely one of the best expansions. Blows WOTLK out of the water.

Come at me, Nostalgia bros

Obvious troll is obvious

[Archmage Alodi]

"The team is happy with the overall pace of leveling as of 7.3.5."
Fuck Off.

[Saphyron]

You got unlucky, that's all. And I highly doubt you went through a whole tier with NO weapon drops, probably more like, the weapon you wanted didn't drop. Instead with Relics we had entire tiers were our good relics didn't drop at all, because they weren't on the loot tables, and then they add the NLC to MAYBE get the good traits....

I'll take 1 single weapon any day.

In mist of pandaria. My hunter went all the way to siege of Orgrimmar before he got a replacement for his exalted reputation weapon.

[Onikaroshi]

In mist of pandaria. My hunter went all the way to siege of Orgrimmar before he got a replacement for his exalted reputation weapon.

Extreme outliers. I had a blue shield all the way to DS cause none would drop. Still prefer weapon drops over the relics, specially with all the RNG they threw on top of them. And there's more sources of weapons now too, M+ 10s when mythic releases can give you a mythic level weapon in the weekly cache, you're not bound to only 1-2 drops (for a hunter) per raid anymore.

[Sastank]

Buff hunters

[SirCowdog]

Leveling guide in my signature.

What's sad is that the fastest way to level completely subverts and exploits the scaling for its maximum speed rather than its intended slow-down effect. It's still not quite as fast as things used to be, where you could stack both EXP pots, heirlooms, RAF and get 5 levels per dungeon run. That's one of the few places I agree with Blizzard about leveling: it WAS broken. Now you have the option of speed-leveling or taking your time.

[Weeps]

Obvious troll is obvious

No. I’m not trolling. The only 2 things that were weak about Legion was the legendary drop system and pvp.

[Saphyron]

Extreme outliers. I had a blue shield all the way to DS cause none would drop. Still prefer weapon drops over the relics, specially with all the RNG they threw on top of them. And there's more sources of weapons now too, M+ 10s when mythic releases can give you a mythic level weapon in the weekly cache, you're not bound to only 1-2 drops (for a hunter) per raid anymore.

I agree. I prefer weapon drops as well.
Just pointing out it can happen that people are exceptionally unlucky.

[Onikaroshi]

I agree. I prefer weapon drops as well.
Just pointing out it can happen that people are exceptionally unlucky.

Oh no doubt, we've all been there

[BetrayedOf52]

Only a little more alt friendly? Was this just worded poorly, because making an alt in legion was horrible, between getting two good legendaries / AP for my weapon, and catching up on gear, it felt like an eternity until my alt was competitive.

[Deleted]

"There are no plans to have events that boost leveling experience in the pre-expansion patch such as the demon invasions."

Harder leveling and new allied races. That is not very subtle of Blizzard.

[goldengamer08]

The plan is to have the Battle for Lordaeron scenario available a week before launch of the expansion for players that have purchased Battle for Azeroth.

Uh I hope that doesn’t mean the people who ordered a physical collectors is stuffed

[therealbowser]

Leveling guide in my signature.

What's sad is that the fastest way to level completely subverts and exploits the scaling for its maximum speed rather than its intended slow-down effect. It's still not quite as fast as things used to be, where you could stack both EXP pots, heirlooms, RAF and get 5 levels per dungeon run. That's one of the few places I agree with Blizzard about leveling: it WAS broken. Now you have the option of speed-leveling or taking your time.

It was broken because of RAF, and RAF alone. Heirlooms still boost experience, and experience potions are still available to those that still have them.

In fact, I still strongly believe we'll start seeing them on the Blizzard store come Battle for Azeroth as a paid service; why else would people buy them when boosts are available? Oh right, allied races have to be leveled to get their armor... hmm...

My issue isn't with the leveling speed itself, though, but rather with the tedium in killing enemies, and that Blizzard has essentially guaranteed that the least effective way to level will be questing from here on out. It's a convoluted mess and Blizzard is "happy" with it.

That's not to say this is targeted at you though, I just feel that there is far too much praise towards the leveling changes, like they are making the game 'fun' with these changes. IMHO, the enemies need to be toned down while leveling; it feels ridiculous that the easiest point in the game is maximum level. And that's saying nothing of how badly tuned enemies are, especially in WoD, making even single enemies a struggle if you picked the wrong class and/or are having bad luck with gear.

The entire idea of how leveling up no longer means anything is a complete joke as well, and gearing up is an endlessly uphill battle; the more effectively you level, the harder it is to play the game. In a sense, heirlooms are more critical now than they've ever been before... I will say that I enjoy being able to pick an expansion to level in (who doesn't dream of skipping TBC?), and that you have more freedom in picking zones, but there needs to be more tiers, or if they aren't willing to do that, just let people pick any zone they want instead of specific expansions. Might as well go all out.

I should reiterate; I think changes were needed, but Blizzard went overkill and virtually everyone knows it. Seeing them post that "They are happy with the leveling speed" is truly sad. I'm just waiting for them to announced experience potions on the Blizzard store. I hope it gets the outrage it deserves. If Blizzard cared at all about how people felt, they would mention that they are thinking about changes, or considering adjustments, or at least working on making questing in later expansions more viable. It's anything but perfect right now.

PS: Thanks for the guide, though. Seriously. Things like that are more helpful than ever before; knowing bits like how to skip Warlords of Draenor instead of slogging through that awful nightmare is like night and day when leveling (I'm assuming that's in your guide, point is that tips like these make a world of difference with how bad leveling is now).

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No. I’m not trolling. The only 2 things that were weak about Legion was the legendary drop system and pvp.

The reason you are being called a troll is not because you are expressing an opinion they disagree with; the reason you are being called a troll is because you are badmouthing what you are aware most people like as the best expansion of World of Warcraft and calling Legion amazing -- which is as obvious as baiting can get -- and not even expressing why you think Legion is so good... or why WotLK is bad.

In short, you are acting like a troll... intentionally or accidentally, it doesn't really make much difference.

- - - Updated - - -

Uh I hope that doesn’t mean the people who ordered a physical collectors is stuffed

Don't worry, friend, you can buy Battle for Azeroth and get the digital version in advance! Blizzard will even let you donate a copy of the game to a friend!

Unless you've been collecting all of the collector's editions since day one, or they simply have something you want very badly in them, I don't see much point in going after them anymore. I don't feel they are even remotely worth the price... but that's just my biased opinion. The fact that Blizzard doesn't care about screwing over their most dedicated fans that buy CE's (which I am not, and have not been) is kind of ironic. It's a new trend for them, and one I cannot fathom.

[SirCowdog]

In fact, I still strongly believe we'll start seeing them on the Blizzard store come Battle for Azeroth as a paid service

I hesitate to agree with this. Not because I don't believe it could happen, but because I think as profit-focused as Blizzard has been lately, even they'd recognize the direct outrage that this would cause. Players will put up with a lot, but removing EXP pots as drops and putting them into the paid store won't go over well.

While that doesn't REALLY make a lot of logical sense(given that you can just buy a 110 boost directly) the community is already pretty riled up about how many things have been taken away from them or pruned. Taking away things and reselling them in the cash shop is just over the top.

My issue isn't with the leveling speed itself, though, but rather with the tedium in killing enemies, and that Blizzard has essentially guaranteed that the least effective way to level will be questing from here on out. It's a convoluted mess and Blizzard is "happy" with it.

IMHO, the enemies need to be toned down while leveling; it feels ridiculous that the easiest point in the game is maximum level. And that's saying nothing of how badly tuned enemies are, especially in WoD, making even single enemies a struggle if you picked the wrong class and/or are having bad luck with gear.

One of the few things I'm interested in BfA is testing the leveling process under War Mode to see if the bonus exp combined with PVP talents will make questing fast enough to contend with other methods.

As someone with experience on both PVP and PVE realms, I don't have much trouble avoiding PVP outside of the occasional gank. Most times I don't even really see enemy players. I suppose that could change under the new combined realms and shards, but we'll see.

However, to get back to the point that I just quoted: I tend to agree. I said that the old leveling system was broken, not that I thought the new system was particularly good outside of the more broad range of choices you have when leveling up. I LIKE the way the open world scales with you so you don't have to feel forced to leave zones early. But I dislike the way mob health and time-to-kill seem bloated in relation to how player-character power increases.

Again, my views might change depending on how well War Mode works. Although even if warmode makes questing feel speedy and empowering again, it will come at the potential cost of being ganked(which I know MANY people absolutely can not tolerate). It definitely seems like the leveling process still needs some work.

PS: Thanks for the guide, though. Seriously. Things like that are more helpful than ever before; knowing bits like how to skip Warlords of Draenor instead of slogging through that awful nightmare is like night and day when leveling (I'm assuming that's in your guide, point is that tips like these make a world of difference with how bad leveling is now).

I'm not aware of anything that lets you skip the entire expansion of WoD. But yes, the part about skipping the intro scenario and going straight to setting up your garrison is there.

[therealbowser]

I'm not aware of anything that lets you skip the entire expansion of WoD. But yes, the part about skipping the intro scenario and going straight to setting up your garrison is there.

I mean that, instead of trying to quest or dungeon through WoD (which is currently terribly balanced for leveling), you can collect treasures and do bonus quests to rush through it very quickly. You are 'skipping' WoD in that sense.

I hesitate to agree with this. Not because I don't believe it could happen, but because I think as profit-focused as Blizzard has been lately, even they'd recognize the direct outrage that this would cause. Players will put up with a lot, but removing EXP pots as drops and putting them into the paid store won't go over well.

While that doesn't REALLY make a lot of logical sense(given that you can just buy a 110 boost directly) the community is already pretty riled up about how many things have been taken away from them or pruned. Taking away things and reselling them in the cash shop is just over the top.

One of the few things I'm interested in BfA is testing the leveling process under War Mode to see if the bonus exp combined with PVP talents will make questing fast enough to contend with other methods.

As someone with experience on both PVP and PVE realms, I don't have much trouble avoiding PVP outside of the occasional gank. Most times I don't even really see enemy players. I suppose that could change under the new combined realms and shards, but we'll see.

However, to get back to the point that I just quoted: I tend to agree. I said that the old leveling system was broken, not that I thought the new system was particularly good outside of the more broad range of choices you have when leveling up. I LIKE the way the open world scales with you so you don't have to feel forced to leave zones early. But I dislike the way mob health and time-to-kill seem bloated in relation to how player-character power increases.

Again, my views might change depending on how well War Mode works. Although even if warmode makes questing feel speedy and empowering again, it will come at the potential cost of being ganked(which I know MANY people absolutely can not tolerate). It definitely seems like the leveling process still needs some work.

As for the rest of your post, War Mode is a curious thing. I don't think it is going to have a dramatic impact on leveling, and if it's popular, well... there will be a lot of people using it, leading to people using it to gank other players, leading to it perhaps slowing things down a bit. War Mode gives an exp bonus because PvP has the risk of slowing things down, after all. I do like that they added these bonuses to War Mode, however; without it, I think PvP phases would be completely empty while leveling, as there would be no point in doing it.

Lastly, well... we'll see on the experience potions. I personally think Blizzard is waiting for things to blow over before they announce them. They've done things before that would have caused an outrage had they released them at an inopportune time (or at least, a worse outrage than it could have been) and it's certainly not as if Blizzard hasn't made decisions in the past solely for revenue, rather than player retention/game quality. I hope they don't, honestly, but I will not be even remotely surprised if they do. I mean, look at WoW tokens and character boosts.

[Andyo]

The team is excited about the improvements to the gearing system which gives more control to the player and lessen the impact of randomness.

Not sure they're playing the same game as the rest of us.

[SirCowdog]

I mean that, instead of trying to quest or dungeon through WoD (which is currently terribly balanced for leveling), you can collect treasures and do bonus quests to rush through it very quickly. You are 'skipping' WoD in that sense.

I fully expect experience from treasures in WoD to be needed hard at some point in BfA. Probably around the same time the second wave of allied races become available, and with some sort of horseshit explanation of how Blizzard doesn't feel that collecting treasures is in the spirit of the leveling experience they wish to present".

As for the rest of your post, War Mode is a curious thing. I don't think it is going to have a dramatic impact on leveling, and if it's popular, well... there will be a lot of people using it, leading to people using it to gank other players, leading to it perhaps slowing things down a bit. War Mode gives an exp bonus because PvP has the risk of slowing things down, after all. I do like that they added these bonuses to War Mode, however; without it, I think PvP phases would be completely empty while leveling, as there would be no point in doing it.

The entire concept of using the incentive of PVE rewards to promote PVP is deeply flawed. Trying to mix the purpose of pve leveling with PvP ganking is likewise flawed. It always has been, even on PvP servers.

I'm just glad it's an option that can be turned on or off at will so when people inevitably get sick of bottom feeding gankers that can't handle area or battlegrounds, they can just not deal with it. That alone will be healthy for the game.

well... we'll see on the experience potions. I personally think Blizzard is waiting for things to blow over before they announce them. They've done things before that would have caused an outrage had they released them at an inopportune time (or at least, a worse outrage than it could have been) and it's certainly not as if Blizzard hasn't made decisions in the past solely for revenue, rather than player retention/game quality. I hope they don't, honestly, but I will not be even remotely surprised if they do. I mean, look at WoW tokens and character boosts.

It's inevitable. All it really is right now is a matter of timing. At what point will the subs drop low enough that the lack of MAUs and sub profits have to be made up somehow.

[therealbowser]

I fully expect experience from treasures in WoD to be needed hard at some point in BfA. Probably around the same time the second wave of allied races become available, and with some sort of horseshit explanation of how Blizzard doesn't feel that collecting treasures is in the spirit of the leveling experience they wish to present".

I am completely find with this, as long as Blizzard also takes the time to tune down the content so that questing becomes viable as well.

The entire concept of using the incentive of PVE rewards to promote PVP is deeply flawed. Trying to mix the purpose of pve leveling with PvP ganking is likewise flawed. It always has been, even on PvP servers.

I'm just glad it's an option that can be turned on or off at will so when people inevitably get sick of bottom feeding gankers that can't handle area or battlegrounds, they can just not deal with it. That alone will be healthy for the game.

True. I mean that it's more likely there to make world PvP exist at all, because if there were no rewards, no benefit for participating, literally no one would do it. Only masochistic people (and hey, there are at least a few out there, but they'd be bored because no one else would be there with them).

If I am not mistaken, though, your character's stats are adjusted in a sense that you will be able to fight anyone on equal terms (presumably within the level range) instead of being ganked by someone on the upper end of the zone. (Otherwise the entire system is flawed and Blizzard may as well not bother with it to begin with. )

It's inevitable. All it really is right now is a matter of timing. At what point will the subs drop low enough that the lack of MAUs and sub profits have to be made up somehow.

Blizzard has already tested selling experience potions on the PTRs IIRC. But that may have been specifically for other regions -- which already sell those experience potions. I can't fathom why else they would be handling the allied races' heritage armor the way they are, and likewise making the leveling experience significantly more tedious and slower intentionally.

In honesty, I hope I'm wrong. But it feels like there's writing on the wall, and I've seen these sorts of things play out before.

[SirCowdog]

I am completely find with this, as long as Blizzard also takes the time to tune down the content so that questing becomes viable as well.

Sadly, that's not how Blizzard works. Their M.O. is to nerf or remove anything that doesn't fit the way they want people to play. They aren't interested in giving players options other than what fits within their strict definition of that, especially under Ion. Look at what happened with Flight and why there isn't any relaxing of the requirement for WoD or Legion pathfinder, despite being non-current expansions. Look at what's happening with ML/PL. Look at all the feedback that was ignored about how bad layered RNG is with Legendaries, the NLC, and now Azerite gear.

Like I said, I fully expect Blizzard to nerf or remove treasure-based exp in order to force leveling players into questing or dungeons, without any kind of rebalancing or changes in other areas to compensate.

True. I mean that it's more likely there to make world PvP exist at all, because if there were no rewards, no benefit for participating, literally no one would do it.

If I am not mistaken, though, your character's stats are adjusted in a sense that you will be able to fight anyone on equal terms (presumably within the level range) instead of being ganked by someone on the upper end of the zone. (Otherwise the entire system is flawed and Blizzard may as well not bother with it to begin with. )

There hasn't been any reason to engage in World PVP since battlegrounds were introduced. War Mode allowing PVP talents to be added on to PVE builds is, as I said, fundamentally flawed. Even with scaling that puts player stats on an even playing field, the builds and mentality for PVP and PVE are completely different.

PVP focuses on burst damage. PVE focuses on sustain.
PVE players will already be engaged with NPC enemies when the ganker attacks, putting them at further disadvantage.
PVE players are in a mental state of attacking AI and farming rep/gear/objectives, PVP gankers are hunters looking for easy meat.
PVE levelers are often solo players. Gankers often run in groups.

The only way PVP works in the open world is if the entire thing is built from the ground up to support it. And that's what battlegrounds do. Simply tacking PVP onto an otherwise 100% PVE design is a bad idea.

Blizzard has already tested selling experience potions on the PTRs IIRC. But that may have been specifically for other regions -- which already sell those experience potions. I can't fathom why else they would be handling the allied races' heritage armor the way they are, and likewise making the leveling experience significantly more tedious and slower intentionally.

In honesty, I hope I'm wrong. But it feels like there's writing on the wall, and I've seen these sorts of things play out before.

Frankly I'm surprised they didn't already start. But maybe they figure race swap payments are already enough? Or it could be a case of timing the release for maximum effect.