Poll: Should Blizzard have the 4 existing allied races unlocked for everyone?

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  1. #201
    Quote Originally Posted by Gehco View Post
    No thanks. I believe people should actually earn them. They aren't that tough.

    We can discuss this better at 9.0, then I might've said yes.
    They should have ways to build up the rep required in BfA content if they are going to require it moving forward. Having to go backwards in the game to do new things is lack luster at best. Blizzard has even said they don't like people having to do old content to use new things when they were talking about DH starting at 98. Sure for people playing right now it isn't an issue. Once BfA is live and people coming back or new players want to mess with these races it becomes an issue.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Helkezin View Post
    I'm pretty sure that there was some titles that required you to have old reps at exalted. The Argent Champion for example.
    A title isn't exactly new content. If you are going to go with silly examples you should have went with people "having" to do old content for xmog.
    "Privilege is invisible to those who have it."

  2. #202
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Alvito View Post


    A title isn't exactly new content. If you are going to go with silly examples you should have went with people "having" to do old content for xmog.
    It's content for me. Just like new mounts, races, pets etc..

  3. #203
    Quote Originally Posted by Alvito View Post
    The 8 new races are a clear and shameless money grab. Most have extremely weak plot lines most filled with more holes than story. They should have been barber shop options. Since WoW can't get away with DLC content on top of subscriptions they went this route. As far as the free boost goes, it isn't much of a feature if you end up needing it to do the new stuff they added. Blizzard has pushed it as their solution to this issue a few times which seems so empty when they say it.
    It's a pretty standard "invent a problem, sell a solution" situation, to be sure. Of course, Blizzard can get away with it, because they just can't possibly do anything wrong ever.

    Speaking of...

    Quote Originally Posted by Hitei View Post
    No, as we've already discussed previously, NEW content was locked behind OLD leveling content. But I'm sure someone who's more suited to playing that new mobile command and conquer game than an MMO probably didn't know that, so don't sweat it.
    But that's not the point. For all the lengthy replies you've made, you've never once addressed the actual point of NEW expansion content being put behind an OLD rep grind. You just start talking about entirely unrelated things. About needing to reach level thresholds to access new content, about needing to do a specific reputation to get the rewards from that reputation. But none of that is the problem.

    Levelling content and reputation grinds are different things. How can you possibly not understand something so basic as that? One is a continuous stream of changing quests limited in time ONLY by how quickly you can actually complete them. One is repeating the same four or five quests every day, then sitting around and waiting 24 hours before you're allowed to do them again... for up to a month.

    Claiming that levelling up and grinding reputations are the same thing is like saying that Raids and Battlegrounds are the same thing because they both involve working with your team to overcome a problem.

    For someone so quick to resort to insults (and not even good insults... "LOL MOBILE GAMES HURRHURR" what is this, 2014?) you sure don't seem to think very critically.

  4. #204
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by The-Shan View Post
    Absolutely not. These restrictions should stay in place forever. It adds an interesting depth to the game, and a race is content not everyone has to experience. You want to play it? Earn it!
    i can agree with this. this statement makes sense. earn it dammit! not everything is a wellfare epic!
    one problem tho. i paid good money, 45€ to be exact, for this content (bfa) and now i have to wait 2 weeks before i can access the content due to the fact that i can only grind so much rep with the factions (legion) per day because the damn thing is time gated. blizzard is literally taking the piss with this, requiring u to purchase new expansion to get new content (thats pretty standard ofc) but then you have to go back and do old content to unlock the new content despite the fact you have paid REAL money for the new content - theres a complete disconnect right there.

  5. #205
    Quote Originally Posted by Helkezin View Post
    I'm pretty sure that there was some titles that required you to have old reps at exalted. The Argent Champion for example.
    With a few outliers, most titles are introduced at the same time (or at least in the same expansion) as the content they are relevant to. There are some outliers, which require reputation from multiple expansions' worth of content, and titles like The Insane, which was only introduced after its content because Achievements didn't exist at the time that the relevant content was released... but for the most part, titles are a part of the expansion that they are obtained from.
    On top of that, a title has never required you to buy an expansion that has nothing to do with the content the title comes from. You don't need to buy Cataclysm to earn a Wrath title, for example.

    And furthermore, titles are purely cosmetic. Allied races have a tangible impact on gameplay, however minor, so it's not really a valid comparison anyway.

  6. #206
    Deleted
    I subbed back for a month to open the allied races, so I wouldn't have to do them anymore. Turns out it only took 10-11days of doing Argus dailies. It's literally a non-issue to "farm" them at this point.
    How about instead of making multiple threads about this each day, people just go earn the rep since there's still more than a month to go.

  7. #207
    Quote Originally Posted by Beefbarrier View Post
    i can agree with this. this statement makes sense. earn it dammit! not everything is a wellfare epic!
    one problem tho. i paid good money, 45€ to be exact, for this content (bfa) and now i have to wait 2 weeks before i can access the content due to the fact that i can only grind so much rep with the factions (legion) per day because the damn thing is time gated. blizzard is literally taking the piss with this, requiring u to purchase new expansion to get new content (thats pretty standard ofc) but then you have to go back and do old content to unlock the new content despite the fact you have paid REAL money for the new content - theres a complete disconnect right there.
    Precisely. Having to work to unlock new Allied races is fine. It's good even, provides a bit of extra incentive to do a thing, and a bit of extra reward for doing it.

    The issue is having people buy BFA, then grind in a completely different expansion in order to access all of the content that was purchased as part of BFA.

    The four existing Allied races we have now should maybe be pulled out of having rep requirements a bit into BFA, but any future ones should absolutely require a bit of work relevant to the expansion they're a part of to unlock.

  8. #208
    Quote Originally Posted by Mixxy Scratch View Post
    It's a pretty standard "invent a problem, sell a solution" situation, to be sure. Of course, Blizzard can get away with it, because they just can't possibly do anything wrong ever.

    Speaking of...

    But that's not the point. For all the lengthy replies you've made, you've never once addressed the actual point of NEW expansion content being put behind an OLD rep grind. You just start talking about entirely unrelated things. About needing to reach level thresholds to access new content, about needing to do a specific reputation to get the rewards from that reputation. But none of that is the problem.

    Levelling content and reputation grinds are different things. How can you possibly not understand something so basic as that? One is a continuous stream of changing quests limited in time ONLY by how quickly you can actually complete them. One is repeating the same four or five quests every day, then sitting around and waiting 24 hours before you're allowed to do them again... for up to a month.

    Claiming that levelling up and grinding reputations are the same thing is like saying that Raids and Battlegrounds are the same thing because they both involve working with your team to overcome a problem.
    Because it isn't ""NEW!!!! content"". It's a new system, that has content for Legion, AND BfA, AND expansions beyond it. They are all related things, because they are all about doing old things to get newly implemented rewards. Leveling content and reputation grinds are slightly different things, because there are plenty of people who absolutely fucking detest leveling and would rather do a handful of quests once a day than level an alt up to 55 pre-Cata. They are both old content that unlocks new things.

    It does not take a month to do the reps.

    No, it's like saying doing quests to do something and doing (world) quests to do something are very similar activities, because, you know, they fucking are.

    For someone so quick to resort to insults (and not even good insults... "LOL MOBILE GAMES HURRHURR" what is this, 2014?) you sure don't seem to think very critically.
    Awww, poor baby. "I think they should remove MMO gameplay from MMOs, but I-I swear I'm not arguing for instant gratification casual gameplay that requires no time investment, please believe me it's 2018!!!"

    Quote Originally Posted by Beefbarrier View Post
    i can agree with this. this statement makes sense. earn it dammit! not everything is a wellfare epic!
    one problem tho. i paid good money, 45€ to be exact, for this content (bfa) and now i have to wait 2 weeks before i can access the content due to the fact that i can only grind so much rep with the factions (legion) per day because the damn thing is time gated. blizzard is literally taking the piss with this, requiring u to purchase new expansion to get new content (thats pretty standard ofc) but then you have to go back and do old content to unlock the new content despite the fact you have paid REAL money for the new content - theres a complete disconnect right there.
    No you don't. You can play any of your other charcters or the brand new 110. If you don't want to do the same quests twice, you can play the opposite faction's storylines while working on the allied race for your main faction.
    Last edited by Hitei; 2018-07-01 at 09:03 AM.

  9. #209
    Quote Originally Posted by Rizlim View Post
    I subbed back for a month to open the allied races, so I wouldn't have to do them anymore. Turns out it only took 10-11days of doing Argus dailies. It's literally a non-issue to "farm" them at this point.
    How about instead of making multiple threads about this each day, people just go earn the rep since there's still more than a month to go.
    Just because it's not a problem right now doesn't mean it won't be in a few months. Someone who decides to pick up WoW halfway into BFA is just gonna be shit-outa-luck.

    Blizzard should be making attempts to welcome new players, not alienate them.

  10. #210
    Quote Originally Posted by Mixxy Scratch View Post
    Just because it's not a problem right now doesn't mean it won't be in a few months. Someone who decides to pick up WoW halfway into BFA is just gonna be shit-outa-luck.

    Blizzard should be making attempts to welcome new players, not alienate them.
    If they are new players who can't be bothered to play the fucking game to earn rewards in the game, they don't need to be welcomed, they need to find another game.

  11. #211
    Quote Originally Posted by Hitei View Post
    Because it isn't ""NEW!!!! content"". It's a new system, that has content for Legion, AND BfA, AND expansions beyond it.
    Except they require purchasing BFA to gain access to. For future expansions, that's fine. WoW has always been a game built around owning all the previous content in order to get up to the new stuff. Rolling all of the outdated expansions into a single product is a relatively new practice brought in to make the game more approachable and less intimidating to new players.

    But having to buy Expansion 8... in order to gain access to Expansion 7 content... that's not okay. No matter what goddamn way you slice it, it's not good.

    Wrath of the Lich King introduced the Achievements system, but you didn't need to buy the expansion in order to earn Vanilla/BC Achievements. Why is this... as you put it... "new system" being treated any differently?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hitei View Post
    Awww, poor baby. "I think they should remove MMO gameplay from MMOs, but I-I swear I'm not arguing for instant gratification casual gameplay that requires no time investment, please believe me it's 2018!!!"
    And still the namecalling. Jesus Christ grow up a bit will you?

    If you actually took more than half a second to comprehend anything I've said, you'd know I'm absolutely not calling for instant gratification and work-free rewards. I've repeatedly said that putting new Allied races behind rep grinds or short quest lines is a GOOD THING. But I guess that doesn't really fit in with your convenient little strawman, does it?

  12. #212
    Deleted
    I worked my ass off for the Alliance allied races. Letting everyone have access to them for free, would be a slap in my face.

  13. #213
    Quote Originally Posted by Hitei View Post
    If they are new players who can't be bothered to play the fucking game to earn rewards in the game, they don't need to be welcomed, they need to find another game.
    The problem isn't "playing the game". It's "playing one expansion to earn the rewards of a completely different expansion".

    Imagine a new Allied race is introduced and the only way to unlock it is to buy the WC3 remaster and play through its campaign. They're different products. Just like how Legion and BFA are different products.

    (And before you bring up, say, the Hearthsteed... if you really can't see the difference between a cross-promotional cosmetic product earned from a F2P game... and a gameplay-impacting playable character earned from a product that costs $50, then maybe you should be the one playing those braindead mobile games made to milk the 'whales'.)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ultraxion View Post
    I worked my ass off for the Alliance allied races. Letting everyone have access to them for free, would be a slap in my face.
    "I worked my ass off travelling across the country and building my own house in a new town. Letting younger people just buy a house decades later would be a slap in my face."

    The hard work you put into being one of the first people to do a thing doesn't suddenly disappear when other people, later down the line, get the same thing.
    Do you get upset when Video Cards go down in price because now those filthy casuals get them for WAY cheaper than what you paid?

  14. #214
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Mixxy Scratch View Post
    The problem isn't "playing the game". It's "playing one expansion to earn the rewards of a completely different expansion".

    Imagine a new Allied race is introduced and the only way to unlock it is to buy the WC3 remaster and play through its campaign. They're different products. Just like how Legion and BFA are different products.

    (And before you bring up, say, the Hearthsteed... if you really can't see the difference between a cross-promotional cosmetic product earned from a F2P game... and a gameplay-impacting playable character earned from a product that costs $50, then maybe you should be the one playing those braindead mobile games made to milk the 'whales'.)

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    "I worked my ass off travelling across the country and building my own house in a new town. Letting younger people just buy a house decades later would be a slap in my face."

    The hard work you put into being one of the first people to do a thing doesn't suddenly disappear when other people, later down the line, get the same thing.
    Do you get upset when Video Cards go down in price because now those filthy casuals get them for WAY cheaper than what you paid?
    Applying real life rules and economy, to video game where people pay a subscription and the developers are paid to keep things fair. Okay, mah dude.

  15. #215
    Quote Originally Posted by Mixxy Scratch View Post
    Except they require purchasing BFA to gain access to. For future expansions, that's fine. WoW has always been a game built around owning all the previous content in order to get up to the new stuff. Rolling all of the outdated expansions into a single product is a relatively new practice brought in to make the game more approachable and less intimidating to new players.

    But having to buy Expansion 8... in order to gain access to Expansion 7 content... that's not okay. No matter what goddamn way you slice it, it's not good.

    Wrath of the Lich King introduced the Achievements system, but you didn't need to buy the expansion in order to earn Vanilla/BC Achievements. Why is this... as you put it... "new system" being treated any differently?
    Because it's significantly more robust and took more dev time? If you want to make a thread about how the four legion races should be available to everyone, make a thread about that. Don't fucking whine about how rewards need to be handed out for putting in 5 minutes of effort.

    If you actually took more than half a second to comprehend anything I've said, you'd know I'm absolutely not calling for instant gratification and work-free rewards. I've repeatedly said that putting new Allied races behind rep grinds or short quest lines is a GOOD THING. But I guess that doesn't really fit in with your convenient little strawman, does it?
    "I'm not calling for instant gratification and work-free rewards!!! I just think that people should have access to four different exalted rep rewards almost instantly for putting in almost zero work! I swear It's not about instant gratification, I just think people shouldn't have to put in any time to get permanent rewards!"

    lol, okay.

  16. #216
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Hitei View Post
    Because it isn't ""NEW!!!! content"". It's a new system, that has content for Legion, AND BfA, AND expansions beyond it. They are all related things, because they are all about doing old things to get newly implemented rewards. Leveling content and reputation grinds are slightly different things, because there are plenty of people who absolutely fucking detest leveling and would rather do a handful of quests once a day than level an alt up to 55 pre-Cata. They are both old content that unlocks new things.

    It does not take a month to do the reps.

    No, it's like saying doing quests to do something and doing (world) quests to do something are very similar activities, because, you know, they fucking are.



    Awww, poor baby. "I think they should remove MMO gameplay from MMOs, but I-I swear I'm not arguing for instant gratification casual gameplay that requires no time investment, please believe me it's 2018!!!"



    No you don't. You can play any of your other charcters or the brand new 110. If you don't want to do the same quests twice, you can play the opposite faction's storylines while working on the allied race for your main faction.
    mate, if i want the allied races that was a part of legion, i should not be forced to buy bfa. the fact that legion races require me to buy the bfa expansion is ridiculous
    legion races should require the legion expansion pack
    bfa races should require the bfa expansion pack

    okay lets take a hypothetical: 8.3.5 introduces some new zones related to bfa but in order to access them, u must pre-order 9.0. are you fine with that? its the same principle - new races or new zones (could be outdoor, bg or raid doesnt matter) you dont go to a restaurant and pay for a steak then say "ok" when they tell you that if you want them to cook it, then you have to buy drinks aswell.. its fucking absurd

  17. #217
    Quote Originally Posted by Beefbarrier View Post
    mate, if i want the allied races that was a part of legion, i should not be forced to buy bfa. the fact that legion races require me to buy the bfa expansion is ridiculous
    legion races should require the legion expansion pack
    bfa races should require the bfa expansion pack

    okay lets take a hypothetical: 8.3.5 introduces some new zones related to bfa but in order to access them, u must pre-order 9.0. are you fine with that? its the same principle - new races or new zones (could be outdoor, bg or raid doesnt matter) you dont go to a restaurant and pay for a steak then say "ok" when they tell you that if you want them to cook it, then you have to buy drinks aswell.. its fucking absurd
    As said above.

    If you want to make a thread about how the four legion races should be available to everyone, make a thread about that. Don't fucking whine about how rewards need to be handed out for putting in 5 minutes of effort.

  18. #218
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Hitei View Post
    As said above.
    that wasnt really the post i was responding to was it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hitei View Post
    Because it's significantly more robust and took more dev time? If you want to make a thread about how the four legion races should be available to everyone, make a thread about that. Don't fucking whine about how rewards need to be handed out for putting in 5 minutes of effort.


    "I'm not calling for instant gratification and work-free rewards!!! I just think that people should have access to four different exalted rep rewards almost instantly for putting in almost zero work! I swear It's not about instant gratification, I just think people shouldn't have to put in any time to get permanent rewards!"

    lol, okay.
    thats the problem. if it was 5minutes of effort then fine, who cares. but its not, the rep grind is literally time gated and it takes about 2 weeks to get all the factions to exalted if u do the WQs every day and the weeklies. thats why it becomes an issue that i have to buy bfa to get legion content

  19. #219
    Quote Originally Posted by Hitei View Post
    Because it's significantly more robust and took more dev time? If you want to make a thread about how the four legion races should be available to everyone, make a thread about that. Don't fucking whine about how rewards need to be handed out for putting in 5 minutes of effort.
    This thread we're in right now is literally about how the four Legion races should be made available to everyone. The OP and I are just presenting different solutions.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hitei View Post
    "I'm not calling for instant gratification and work-free rewards!!! I just think that people should have access to four different exalted rep rewards almost instantly for putting in almost zero work! I swear It's not about instant gratification, I just think people shouldn't have to put in any time to get permanent rewards!"

    lol, okay.
    "I can't actually argue against any of the issues or problems people have with Blizzard's decision here so instead I just resort to personal insults, false equivalencies, and making up other arguments in order to just dismiss any negative comment without having to actually think for myself for a goddamn second. I just can't deal with the possibility that a game company I like is capable of making a poor decision, and am convinced that something I like being anything less than perfect somehow makes me a lesser person."

    Look, it's okay to criticise things you like. It's okay to like things you criticise.

    It's okay to think. You should try it.

  20. #220
    Quote Originally Posted by Beefbarrier View Post
    that wasnt really the post i was responding to was it.
    It's an answer to your post. There is probably a valid argument to be made that the four legion races don't need to be locked behind buying BfA, realistically, they won't be anyway after BfA, because in some ways they function like previous races (they are locked behind box price and then as that expansion gets added into the base game, become part of the base game). The two are separate issues, the thread, and discussion at hand are about how rewards do not need to be handed out because people can't be fucking bothered to do the thing that rewards them.

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