"The team is excited about the improvements to the gearing system"

[Nutrition]

I also like having options, but sometimes it's good to take the choice away too. Before Legion, most pug raids where ML and with loot being reserved / ninja'd and it happened frequently. It wasn't simply "Don't like ML? Don't join", since most were ML and you didn't have much options, not to mention the groups that would change the looting method mid-run, more than once. Personally I had a much, much, much better experience with pugs in Legion thanks to this (and Discord.. ).

Note that I don't personally agree with forced PL for non-pugs, but allowing a Master Looter in pugs was just silly imo. For an organized group of players it is obvious that having the ML option available makes sense due to allowing a single person to distribute loot among the raid however the guild sees fit. This allows for guilds to decide which part of their raid they should strengten first, be it gearing the healers because the raid is taking too much damage or the dps because of an enrage timer. It also allows for pieces of gear to be given to classes/specs that greatly benefit from it, so you would give gear with Crit to classes that greatly benefit from that stat, not just give it to someone because it's slightly higher iLvl.

I never really saw a problem with even pugs having masterloot. Wow lacks leadership drastically so if you are good at leading why not exact a toll on those who want it?

I never had complaints in wod with my full clearing pugs and later partial mythic runs with reservations. In fact I started to gain a following that would show up rather consistantly when my pugs started. Now I simply bring a carry alone and collect gold.

There isn't any loser in that scenario and people are always free to leave.

[rrayy]

Now you are the one lying. With personal loot, no one has control over their loot drops.

False. You have total control over your own loot drops. YOU get to decide what to do with it.

[Verdugo]

False. You have total control over your own loot drops. YOU get to decide what to do with it.

By that logic you had a total control of your loot before too. YOU get to decide what to do with it once you have it.

[rrayy]

By that logic you had a total control of your loot before too. YOU get to decide what to do with it once you have it.

No you didn't. Your RL had total control over all gear. If you weren't that, you had zero control. Now, everyone has full control over the loot that drops for them.

[JackWest]

No you didn't. Your RL had total control over all gear. If you weren't that, you had zero control. Now, everyone has full control over the loot that drops for them.

You are talking about control over OBTAINING loot, and he is talking about control over already OBTAINED loot.
But yeah, i cant wait to get guildie's BiS item and not be able to trade it due to 5 ilvl upgrade(while item is trash for me and not even worth equipping). Will be amazing /s

[Verdugo]

You are talking about control over OBTAINING loot, and he is talking about control over already OBTAINED loot.
But yeah, i cant wait to get guildie's BiS item and not be able to trade it due to 5 ilvl upgrade(while item is trash for me and not even worth equipping). Will be amazing /s

That right there is proof that you DONT have 100% control over your loot and rray is just full of shit.

[JackWest]

That right there is proof that you DONT have 100% control over your loot and rray is just full of shit.

He is. I've had plenty of experience with him in another topic about ML and his screeching "you want ML because you abuse other people"

[Nayami]

I never really saw a problem with even pugs having masterloot. Wow lacks leadership drastically so if you are good at leading why not exact a toll on those who want it?

I never had complaints in wod with my full clearing pugs and later partial mythic runs with reservations. In fact I started to gain a following that would show up rather consistantly when my pugs started. Now I simply bring a carry alone and collect gold.

There isn't any loser in that scenario and people are always free to leave.

We all have different experiences of course. In my experience, it was mostly ninja looting and sudden gear reservations right before the boss fight. I don't think someone should control who gets what loot in a pug, even if they are the leader and they formed the group by themselves. Yes, forming good groups takes time and I always appreciate it but that doesn't mean that the raid leader can reserve loot when everyone in the raid is doing their part to kill the boss.

Please don't get me wrong, having good leadership skills and being able to form good well balanced groups is always appreciated, but I can't see that being enough reason to take loot from other players that are properly following the raid leader's direction and doing their part based on their role.

[Nutrition]

We all have different experiences of course. In my experience, it was mostly ninja looting and sudden gear reservations right before the boss fight. I don't think someone should control who gets what loot in a pug, even if they are the leader and they formed the group by themselves. Yes, forming good groups takes time and I always appreciate it but that doesn't mean that the raid leader can reserve loot when everyone in the raid is doing their part to kill the boss.

Please don't get me wrong, having good leadership skills and being able to form good well balanced groups is always appreciated, but I can't see that being enough reason to take loot from other players that are properly following the raid leader's direction and doing their part based on their role.

All depends the level of leadership factors into it or that is how I saw it. I don't know how many people can form pugs that can clear 5-6 mythic bosses while explaining each person's role in the fight at hand.

That being said I am always straight forward with what I want and expect a deal is a deal even with a dirty dealer.

[Vargulf the Happy Husky]

everything should just drop a currency we use to buy gear.

waiting for specific items to drop can be very tedious and sucks.

"imagine there's no drop rate. it's easy if you try..."

[SirCowdog]

how can you say its not ? the choice now belongs 100% to player not so some nolifer living in his parents basement who in past was removing all this choice from players by being ML.

Annnd...whoosh! Still letting the critical point fly right over your head.

The choice was ALREADY in the hands of the player! They chose to join a raid using ML!

Your argument is no better than someone who willfully creates a character on a PVP server then complains that they got ganked. Your point of view is fundamentally flawed, and you just won't admit it.

Please fuck right on out of here.

SECONDED!

[hulkgor]

"The team is excited about the improvements to the gearing system which gives more control to the player and lessen the impact of randomness."

Haha go fuck yourselves Blizzard.

*removes Master loot*
*Talks about how exciting it is to give more control to the players over their loot and lessen the impact of randomness*

Oh look, another edgy dude, telling a game developer to fuck off, whilst still buying their products.

NICE, YOU SHOW THEM!

[Jinzuru]

He is. I've had plenty of experience with him in another topic about ML and his screeching "you want ML because you abuse other people"

At least that "wall of text" guy is not in here.

[SirCowdog]

False. You have total control over your own loot drops. YOU get to decide what to do with it.

Yeah...for reelzies. You can decide to vendor the trash non-upgrade or duplicates when the layered RNG continuously shits all over you.

Such decision! Many choice! So wow!


In all seriousness, if you actually had FULL control over your drops, you could trade items that were upgrades. Which you can't. Nor can you trade Azerite pieces.

So much for the idea of FULL control. :/

[klaps_05]

With ML - you never get loot unless some arbitrary group of people decide you should. You never can trade it. You just don't have that choice.
With PL - sometimes you just get loot. Most of the time once you get loot you can trade it if you want - your choice.

Blizzard bring choice back to players. That is why most players love this change.

Except its not an arbitrary group of people who decide. Its the people part of lootcouncil who determine where the loot goes based on current top specs and performers in their raid group. Also, these people are decided by the guild. Also, YOU chose to be in such a group, with such rules, with these people in charge. But since people are lazy and dont want to find a guild that actually suits them, they are happy blizzard took over.

Also, "most players love this change" - says who? Given that this affects only a minority of the minority that actually raids, this change only really affects guilds pushing rankings, and it affects them in a negative way as they no longer can min/max their progress.

Personal loot is just like Legion arena, but without stat templates. Hope you prayed to the RNG gods enough, cause if you aint lucky, you get benched.

[rrayy]

Except its not an arbitrary group of people who decide. Its the people part of lootcouncil who determine where the loot goes based on current top specs and performers in their raid group. Also, these people are decided by the guild. Also, YOU chose to be in such a group, with such rules, with these people in charge. But since people are lazy and dont want to find a guild that actually suits them, they are happy blizzard took over.

Also, "most players love this change" - says who? Given that this affects only a minority of the minority that actually raids, this change only really affects guilds pushing rankings, and it affects them in a negative way as they no longer can min/max their progress.

Personal loot is just like Legion arena, but without stat templates. Hope you prayed to the RNG gods enough, cause if you aint lucky, you get benched.

YOu overexaggerate without proof PL hasn't been in raids for guilds yet. So, your "you're benched" proclamations are based on nothing.

- - - Updated - - -

Yeah...for reelzies. You can decide to vendor the trash non-upgrade or duplicates when the layered RNG continuously shits all over you.

Such decision! Many choice! So wow!


In all seriousness, if you actually had FULL control over your drops, you could trade items that were upgrades. Which you can't. Nor can you trade Azerite pieces.

So much for the idea of FULL control. :/

If it is an upgrade, you shouldn't be trading it. You should be using it. ANd once again, overexaggeration. I can use you r dumb loigc the other way and say under ML the RL can shit all over you and you have no chance at loot. Such power! Such decision!. So wow!

[JackWest]

If it is an upgrade, you shouldn't be trading it. You should be using it.

Stat priority says "Hi!". Higher ilvl=/=upgrade

My ex gf was a casual raider who played in guilds using PL. She was a shadow priest. I still remember her raging every time when she gets another item WITHOUT haste(while haste being most important stat). Not to mention, getting 5 cloaks from 5 bonus rolls in a row, none with any haste. She "loved" that most

[rrayy]

Sure I can. I can petulantly rage both here and on Blizzard's forums. And on reddit, actually. And twitter.

Surely you can admit the hypocrisy in removing a major ability to control your loot and lessen the impact of randomness, then touting how great your changes to increase control of your loot and lessen the impact of randomness are.

Since when do I control loot in ML. Last I checked, the RL has all the power. I am at his mercy. The only ones who think this is a hypocrisy is RL because they have all the power and can gear themselves and their buddies at the rest of the raid teams expense.

- - - Updated - - -

Jesus the amount of people who don't seem to realise they're allowed to leave a guild if they don't like the way loot is handled.

Blows my goddamn mind.


Here's the rub, kiddos. In Legion, there were guilds that use Personal Loot, and guilds that use Master Loot. You could find one that suited your wants. You had a choice.
In BFA, ALL guilds are forced to use Personal Loot. You can't find one that handles loot in the way you're most comfortable. Each and every single person is forced to adhere to the exact same methods of looting and gearing. That is the opposite of choice.


In BFA, thanks to Azerite gear, we're gonna be picking up more untradeable pieces than ever (Legendaries don't count because they were push-personal. They're closer to mounts than Azerite or Tier pieces)... and we're forced to use a loot system that gives us zero control over who gets those untradeable pieces.

Hell, the main selling point of Azerite gear was that it was an alternative to Tier sets that were far less restrictive. A combination of forced-Personal-Loot and Azerite gear being BOP regardless of ilvl means that Azerite has suddenly become far far more restrictive than Tier pieces.

So... why? What possible advantage could untradeable Azerite pieces serve the player?

More victim blaming to justify his loot abuse. To fix a problem, you go to the root of it, you don't tell others to deal with it.

[JackWest]

More victim blaming to justify his loot abuse. To fix a problem, you go to the root of it, you don't tell others to deal with it.

If there was an award for victimizing yourself, you'd even beat Black Lives Matter and win the price 10/10 times. Nobody is telling you to deal with it. We are telling you to "fix" it, rather than sit there, let it happen more and more, and expect someone else to solve your problem for you

[RoKPaNda]

There's a reason why senior employees get paid more in a company, they add more to the company. If 1 hunter has been loyal to the guild for years, and constantly performs 30% better then this new recruit that hasn't proven himself in any way they shouldn't get equal pay, because if they do there is 0 incentive for them to actually try to work really hard, to be loyal and to try to make their guild a better place. This is the exact reason why communism didnt work. I wonder how happy you all would be when your salary suddenly gets lowered and this junior who just joined the company gets the same pay as you.

Who said anything about recruits? I'm not talking about recruits and obviously nobody should have a problem with the scenario that you've given. Whatever guild I've been in, ever since my first raid guild in Vanilla WoW, I was very friendly with the officers. I've never had a complaint about not getting enough loot, I get plenty of loot. I get more than my fair share of loot imo. I outperform other people who play my class, and it's not their fault because I get more/better loot than they do. I shouldn't just because I'm friendly with all the officers but I do. I've never known this not to the case in the guild, and it's probably the case in your guild but you just haven't noticed. Try keeping track of who gets what and when and see if you notice any trends. Also I had a good chuckle with your career analogy. We're talking about loot in a video game.

It seems like you are extremely unlucky with all of your raidguilds up until now then and i am sorry for that. I have had no issues at all with PM so far and i am playing leather dps, probably the most used armor in all raids and even though i had some toxic af guilds i never cried after loot and always gratulated someone who got a strong item. But that is just my view of "if i don't get it someone else will, raid dps goes up anyway". Our current raid is a very stable one so i can be 99% sure the item will stay in our raid and will help us progress, so idc if i get it or not but it seems that the only argument people like you bring up is "I" and nothing else. "I got striped of my item with ML, I am not favored at my loot council, I want to be the very best". I have yet to see a valid and non selfish reason for why getting rid of PM is fine.

Or maybe you've just been very lucky with guilds? Or you're not paying enough attention. *shrug* Also, my point is pretty much the exact opposite of "me me me" because I feel that I get plenty of loot, maybe too much loot, because I'm always very friendly with the other officers even if I think they're fucking morons. My lack of caring about the loot system change is that I hope others will get more loot.