This is why fake news is dangerous

[Sandraudiga]

So, that law you claim they are following... you cannot actually demonstrate it...

That's the problem, this is the policy push by Sessions and the Trump administration. They are doing this as a threat to people, "This is what will happen to your kids if you try and come here." Let's not forget, Trump has already called to ignore due process, and simply deport them without hearings.

http://time.com/5320551/trump-immedi...court-hearing/

http://insider.foxnews.com/2018/06/2...thout-hearings

Calling out Trump for the due process comment is okay, since that is something that he is responsible for and is a different issue entirely. Also, not being able to quote the exact number and code for the law in California doesn't mean it not real. Feel free to look it up, it's your country. I'm not going to go through California lawbook to win a forum debate.

[Machismo]

Calling out Trump for the due process comment is okay, since that is something that he is responsible for and is a different issue entirely. Also, not being able to quote the exact number and code for the law in California doesn't mean it not real. Feel free to look it up, it's your country. I'm not going to go through California lawbook to win a forum debate.

Then why would you make such a claim? You are simply regurgitating something that you heard that's not even really true. As for condemning Trump, we can also do it on the separations, because he and Sessions are the ones pushing it. Yes, it's their administration doing it, your whataboutisms notwithstanding.

What can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.

[Sandraudiga]

Then why would you make such a claim? You are simply regurgitating something that you heard that's not even really true. As for condemning Trump, we can also do it on the separations, because he and Sessions are the ones pushing it. Yes, it's their administration doing it, your whataboutisms notwithstanding.

What can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.

Even if I bought an book on California law and gave you the exact code for it, you would come up with another reason why it didn't matter or didn't prove anything. It's a fact that child separation happened under Bush and Obama as well as Trump. I get it, you hate Trump, he is the devil and #notyourpresident, doesn't change facts.

[Machismo]

Even if I bought an book on California law and gave you the exact code for it, you would come up with another reason why it didn't matter or didn't prove anything. It's a fact that child separation happened under Bush and Obama as well as Trump. I get it, you hate Trump, he is the devil and #notyourpresident, doesn't change facts.

You literally made a claim, and refused to back it up when questioned on it. Feel free to keep dying on that hill.

Let me know when you can provide a source to back up your claims, as I did mine.

[Barnabas]

There is no evidence he didn't either. It's just a rumor. If it were true then that would really rock the boat in iran and elsewhere.

[Sandraudiga]

The data does exist DHS released the information, there are currently 10,773 children in custody of the US government. Under Obama and Bush all of them were children who came here without parents or guardians. This graph describes the process, I can only assume most of them end up being accepted since 94% of them are asylum seekers. The only ongoing problem from all administration is the lack of staffing for the immigration department in which we have years worth of backlog. The forceful separation of children from parents is something that the Trump administration started this year they followed old protocol before then, Obama considered doing but ultimately rejected the idea.

The separation isn't something that started under Trump. It did happen under Bush and Obama, though perhaps the rate has increased simply because current policy sends all illegals for prosecution apparently. I do admit that is a bit stupid to do.

I've spend most of the last couple hours on the DHS website and so far I can't find where alot of the information you are suggesting is stored. I originally started looking to confirm numbers posted on the factcheck.org article I was reading. That article stated that between May 5th and June 9th 2,342 children were separated from their parents under the no tolerance policy.

Same article said the DHS wasn't able to provide any information about children separated from their parents under Obama, but that Obama sent 21% of his deportation numbers for prosecution. Given I've read a few dozen articles in which also state DHS was unable to given them information on statistics on child separation under Obama, or Bush for that matter I doubt they keep that data normally. The DHS website doesn't even have that data for Trump, which suggests this also. Still, we can see that 100% prosecution and 21% is a fairly large difference. While I admit that this difference, once I found it, does pretty much prove the rate has increased, it doesn't prove at all that it never happened under Bush or Obama. Saying Obama, or Bush had no policy to do it doesn't mean it didn't happen. Even Trumps policy doesn't say "take the kids away", despite many articles who claim separation is the policy, it says every illegal who breaks the law crossing the border is prosecuted. It's a consequence of prosecution the adults that forces the separation. DHS numbers say Obama deported 2,362,966 adults, of which 492,970 were referred for prosecution.

Those are the only numbers I could even really find on the DHS website, so either you are far better at navigating that site, or are getting your information from places who are.

Even the sites I found where they said child separation occurred made special note that it wasn't policy to do it, it just happened. Hell Cecilia Muñoz, the White House Director of Intergovernmental Affairs in 2001 stated in an interview that "Even if the law is executed with perfection, there will be parents separated from their children".

https://www.raceforward.org/research...families?arc=1
https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/a...ents-deported/
https://shadowproof.com/2018/06/15/s...ding-practice/
https://lawandcrime.com/immigration/...amilies-too-2/

Honestly, I am just going to stop here as this has derailed way too far. My point is simple: Blame Trump(and Clinton, Bush and Obama) for doing it, don't blame him for creating it.

[cubby]

Especially when you have a president who works in the fucking White House who can easily fact check this but just believes fox and friends because it is fox. He is that viewer who just believes everything and doesn’t then go to back it up even when he has access.

https://money.cnn.com/2018/07/03/med...eal/index.html

And this is why he is so much more horrific than any other president. People just don't understand how deeply bad something like this is, and what the ramifications are going forward.

He sets policy from Fox News. Let that sink in.

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I love how the POTUS can just equate being Iranian with being bad/terrorists or whatever and no one in Merica even cares about it.

Ignorant blowhard. That's our Cadet Bone Spurs.

[Themius]

I'm ad ad by a conservative group? I'm not a republican, I'm not even a US citizen. I made as many jokes about Bush as I make about Trump today. Trump and Hillary were easily the worst candidates in political history worldwide, and no matter who won it was going to be a complete shit show. Trump is likely the worst president you've had, but Hillary's corruption would have been worse imo. If I had to vote I would have voted for Trump for 2 reasons, one was Hillary is downright evil, and the other was I figured the democrates and republicans both hate him and he wouldn't get much at all done. A bumbling idiot who doesn't get what he wants is better than a corrupt opportunist who does.

The facts are the facts, and it isn't republicans or Trumps fault this is happened. Hell, I think he should be following Obamas path of deportation. A country has the right to deport people who don't have the right to be there. Shouldn't take the kids away from their parents, but should deport them together for sure.

How is Hillary “evil” compared to trump what has trump done that shows him as good? This has got to be the dumbest thing trump supporters say.

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talks about fake news then links a cnn article...pot meet kettle.

This is just a stupid post because there is literally a tweet of trump saying this in his twitter which conincides with the fox story so do you just not trust reality and the presidents own twitter feed?

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Well, what news sources are you willing to accept. A detailed list would be great.

(This is the part where you either list off a bunch of random alt-right sites, or simply say Reuters and the AP)

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It does if it's his administration that is implementing policies. He called for a denial of due process for these things.

There’s a street from his own Twitter. He just doesn’t believe reality or even trump.

[Mormolyce]

Even if I bought an book on California law and gave you the exact code for it

You fundamentally do not know what you are talking about. No law changed. Jeff Sessions sent a memorandum introducing the "zero tolerance policy". Here:

Accordingly, I direct each United States Attorney's Office along the Southwest Borderto the extent practicable, and in consultation with DHS- to adopt immediately a zero-tolerance policy for all offenses referred for prosecution under section 1325(a). This zero-tolerance policy
shall supersede any existing policies.

https://www.justice.gov/opa/press-re...49751/download

It is a change in Justice Department policy - previously those caught crossing the border illegally were mostly handled in administrative proceedings before deportation. The zero tolerance policy specifically mandated that border agencies arrest, charge and bring to trial all of those people before deportation. Separation of children from parents was a forseen and indeed intended consequence:

I have put in place a “zero tolerance” policy for illegal entry on our Southwest border. If you cross this border unlawfully, then we will prosecute you. It’s that simple. If you smuggle illegal aliens across our border, then we will prosecute you. If you are smuggling a child, then we will prosecute you and that child may be separated from you as required by law.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rmMtyUaBJ4A (~1:00)

Child separations increased dramatically due to this zero tolerance policy. That's a fact. You are buying into propaganda.

[Orbitus]

talks about fake news then links a cnn article...pot meet kettle.

Well, its a good thing CNN isn't fake news.

[Toppy]

Well, its a good thing CNN isn't fake news.

Fake news = news that makes you feel uncomfortable

[Daelak]

Bush and Obama implemented the same policies, as it was happening under them the same way. Trump also calls for alot of things, calling him a moron for saying stupid garbage like that is okay.

I'm not saying Trumps administration is wrong for continuing the practice. I've said I don't support separation. All I am saying is blaming Trump as the cause is wrong, since he isn't. The backlash might have stung his ego into at least attempting to change it, but at least he is trying to change it unlike Bush and Obama. Doing the right thing for the wrong reasons in this case is acceptable enough.

That being said, I hope he sticks to deporting them together rather than caving more and letting illegals stay in your county. At least I assume you are American, apologies if you are not.

Prior administrations didn't separate children from their parents. They let them enter the country and sent a formal court summons or notification of a misdemeanor, which would then serve as a formal introduction to the naturalization process. That is not what happens now.

[grexly75]

Yes I do believe you believe that.

Nor did you even answer my question.

I did when I said that I am skeptical of all of them, and as such there is no more that needs to be said..

[Draco-Onis]

The separation isn't something that started under Trump. It did happen under Bush and Obama, though perhaps the rate has increased simply because current policy sends all illegals for prosecution apparently. I do admit that is a bit stupid to do.

That is factually wrong, it started under Donald Trump this year under the new zero tolerance policy. It stated as being under consideration 2017 by then head of the DHS John Kelly as a deterrent. This same sentiment was then echoed by Jeff Sessions in a speech which the video is available online.

This policy is the result of the Trump administration changing the penalty for crossing the border from a misdemeanor to a felony again this was part of their policy no other administration did this let's get that clear those are the facts. A felony requires separation by law because you have to serve jail time, a misdemeanor does not this was their choice no one else was stupid enough to do this. If you crossed the border a second time after being warned and caught then you faced a felony and that was at the discretion of the prosecutors there was nothing like this before.

[Orange Joe]

You think it's happened at a higher rate, because of the press it's getting. Is it happening at a higher rate now? Maybe it is, maybe it's not. The fact that journalists are talking about it now doesn't make it an issue solely of the present. It was happening then, and deportation itself was happening at a far far higher rate than in US history and yet the majority of the journalists who find themselves so outraged said nothing.

Media moulds public opinion, and right now they are doing their best to convince everyone this is a Trump issue when it's not. Should separation be stopped? Sure. Does Trump care about the issue? Probably not. I'd place money on his EO was based on his ego more than anything else. Him being a moron doesn't make him responsible.

It's almost like we can tie the start of outcries to a certain policy he passed. People that were working in that sector started saying "Hey this is now happening at an alarming rate compared to before"

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that is a completely unrelated issue that is no way linked to what you said

it would be like me calling you a rapist because more men then women commit rape

there is no example as to what trump said or that fox news article was dangerous in anyway at all

pizzagate = conspiracy conservatives spread lies about = results of someone showing up to the placed armed.

This = conspiracy conservatives spread lies about......


It's almost like you would have to be seriously retarded not to see the similarities.

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Bush and Obama implemented the same policies, as it was happening under them the same way. Trump also calls for alot of things, calling him a moron for saying stupid garbage like that is okay.

I'm not saying Trumps administration is wrong for continuing the practice. I've said I don't support separation. All I am saying is blaming Trump as the cause is wrong, since he isn't. The backlash might have stung his ego into at least attempting to change it, but at least he is trying to change it unlike Bush and Obama. Doing the right thing for the wrong reasons in this case is acceptable enough.

That being said, I hope he sticks to deporting them together rather than caving more and letting illegals stay in your county. At least I assume you are American, apologies if you are not.

They implemented a zero tolerance policy? Thats something you should be able to easily link for evidence.

[Linkedblade]

Especially when you have a president who works in the fucking White House who can easily fact check this but just believes fox and friends because it is fox. He is that viewer who just believes everything and doesn’t then go to back it up even when he has access.

https://money.cnn.com/2018/07/03/med...eal/index.html

Almost all of the news now is extremely biased. Therefore it is fake news. It has zero journalistic integrity. They shouldn't even be called news. Should be labeled OP-ED, all of it. That's why it's fake news, because it definitely isn't real news.

[Daelak]

Almost all of the news now is extremely biased. Therefore it is fake news. It has zero journalistic integrity. They shouldn't even be called news. Should be labeled OP-ED, all of it. That's why it's fake news, because it definitely isn't real news.

Bold statement Cotton, cant wait to hear who or where you get your news from.

[Linkedblade]

Bold statement Cotton, cant wait to hear who or where you get your news from.

Not from any particular or single source, but I normally don't look up political articles. Usually lurk for tech related news, maybe a science journal every now and again, and read the local paper. But I sure as hell don't watch the news. Tv is too ratings driven and that leads to the level of dishonest and biased information.

[Noxx79]

Not from any particular or single source, but I normally don't look up political articles. Usually lurk for tech related news, maybe a science journal every now and again, and read the local paper. But I sure as hell don't watch the news. Tv is too ratings driven and that leads to the level of dishonest and biased information.

Oh, another “I don’t watch news, but I KNOW it’s fake” person.

How do you know this?

[Orbitus]

Oh, another “I don’t watch news, but I KNOW it’s fake” person.

How do you know this?

He pulled it from his rectal cavity named Donald Trump.