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  1. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by salvadorbard View Post
    The issue (as has been stated countless times now) is that Blizzard themselves advertised this as a headlining feature of BfA - THE replacement to legendary items, set bonuses, and artifacts. Some of the traits are pretty sweet, sure, but those are the exceptions rather than the rule which as much as I wish wasn't the case, unfortunately is.
    Well.. For instance Havocs first tierset had 10% extra crit on Chaos Strike as 4p, our best legendary (that we have used for 2 years) added 1-12 fury to Demon bite. And our artifact traits were mostly just passives that didnt do much, just made our chaos strike hit harder or proc stuff, eye beam leaving a dot etc. Nothing super exciting, just made us do more dmg.

    And as far as i can see, that's exactly what Azerite traits are doing, there's a chaos strike trait that increases its dmg and lower its cost (currently a 4.5% dps increase over having non). And there's obviously more to come as new raids gets released.

    So yea, people can whine all they want. But in the end they're not that different from sets/artifact weapons and legendaries. Hopefully the power creep is a bit slower though.

  2. #62
    Quote Originally Posted by salvadorbard View Post
    The issue (as has been stated countless times now) is that Blizzard themselves advertised this as a headlining feature of BfA - THE replacement to legendary items, set bonuses, and artifacts. Some of the traits are pretty sweet, sure, but those are the exceptions rather than the rule which as much as I wish wasn't the case, unfortunately is.
    A majority of the Legion artifact traits were also really boring. So it is really an pretty equivalent replacement. That being said, I do agree that the boring traits should just go away. They really don't serve any purpose other than to give people a sense of progression while leveling until the real traits kick in. I know that they are designed to kinda feel like the old talent trees/spells....but I never thought those were really engaging anyways. Just my opinion

  3. #63
    Quote Originally Posted by yjmark View Post
    So, if they pump up the haste bonus for Voidform, then shadow would be relatively fixed? Just curious. I play shadow in Legion, and have not tried the beta yet. Shadow was pretty horrible until I could get a decent amount of haste - sounds like BfA is similar?
    Having played Shadow since the start of Legion (I've mained Shadow post expansions), I'm going to say that BfA Shadow at launch will feel less fun than Shadow at the launch of Legion.

    There's also the fact that Void Form's insanity drain is ramped up as well. No matter how hard you push it, you'll only be able to get half the amount of stacks than we currently can.

    They've equalized the damage in and out of Void Form, though. Shadow in BfA does have the numbers. It just doesn't have the frenetic gameplay we've come to love. And based on comparing my current Shadow Priest with a generic 110 template Shadow Priest, it looks like getting more haste isn't going to affect total amount of VF stacks we can get will only ever change by a couple of stacks from launch to final tier. They want us to be in and out of voidform at close to a 1:1 ratio, where as we're out of voidform now for, at MOST, 10 seconds every 50-55 seconds we're in void form.

    Dark Ascension does give us a little more time in Void Form, though.

    Neither Mindbender nor Void Torrent will help us attain high stack voidforms.

    My biggest qualm with Shadow in BfA is actually DoT duration. Our DoT's last for a shorter duration by default, and Voidbolt doesn't add nearly as much to the duration on impact, so we WILL be back to manually applying our DoTs far more frequently. Misery helps this aspect not feel so clunky, but it's going to be pretty much impossible to entirely avoid reapplying DoTs during void form, especially in AoE, and that just doesn't feel very good.
    Quote Originally Posted by Novakhoro View Post
    I recommend shoulder surgery immediately... there's no way you didn't fuck it up with how hard you just reached.

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by vkpush View Post
    Which are exactly the same as m+ azerite traits. Might still be placeholders as far as we know.
    There are Uldir specific traits in there. I don't think anything is a PH at this point, believe that you like but it's very unlikely to change at this point.
    THE HORDE WILL ENDURE
    THE HORDE IS STRONG!

  5. #65
    Quote Originally Posted by Veyne View Post
    Having played Shadow since the start of Legion (I've mained Shadow post expansions), I'm going to say that BfA Shadow at launch will feel less fun than Shadow at the launch of Legion.

    There's also the fact that Void Form's insanity drain is ramped up as well. No matter how hard you push it, you'll only be able to get half the amount of stacks than we currently can.

    They've equalized the damage in and out of Void Form, though. Shadow in BfA does have the numbers. It just doesn't have the frenetic gameplay we've come to love. And based on comparing my current Shadow Priest with a generic 110 template Shadow Priest, it looks like getting more haste isn't going to affect total amount of VF stacks we can get will only ever change by a couple of stacks from launch to final tier. They want us to be in and out of voidform at close to a 1:1 ratio, where as we're out of voidform now for, at MOST, 10 seconds every 50-55 seconds we're in void form.

    Dark Ascension does give us a little more time in Void Form, though.

    Neither Mindbender nor Void Torrent will help us attain high stack voidforms.

    My biggest qualm with Shadow in BfA is actually DoT duration. Our DoT's last for a shorter duration by default, and Voidbolt doesn't add nearly as much to the duration on impact, so we WILL be back to manually applying our DoTs far more frequently. Misery helps this aspect not feel so clunky, but it's going to be pretty much impossible to entirely avoid reapplying DoTs during void form, especially in AoE, and that just doesn't feel very good.
    This is great input. Thank you for putting it in a way I could really relate to. Sounds like they could potentially make things much better by some minor tweaking/optimization (like increasing DoT duration addition from Voidbolt and maybe letting us stay longer in the sweet sweet voidform). I really wonder why they would want us spending more time outside of voidform. Being outside of voidform is just not as fun...

  6. #66
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaira View Post
    Are you kidding? new MM is mindnumbingly boring to play and stripped bare so much so people are actually complaining about it which I don't blame them.
    It's a damn sight better than the Vulnerable window stuff in Legion, and Rapid Fire is the bomb.

    So no, I'm not kidding. Opinions and asses, yo.

  7. #67
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaira View Post
    So the vuln window mechanics were too hard for you so you prefer the dipshit rotation thats going to go live in BfA GG, And yeah most of those are full of shit too!
    Too hard for me? Now that's adorable. Obviously everyone who doesn't like a mechanic is a noob, that's how game design works right.

    Keep being angry, and I'll keep my opinions.

  8. #68
    Anyone who claims sub is fun to play is outright lying
    Insert cringe politically charged signature here

  9. #69
    locks (yes all specs) are kind of OK... ish, everything else is sht beyond comprehension as far as I am concerned, sure thers a nice touch here and there and that can be said p'much about each spec but overall its BS

  10. #70
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaira View Post
    Ouch! Another reason why people are showing no signs of interest in the new system, it prob sounded great on paper but in reality its garbage.
    There are plenty of traits that change game play in small ways. They're not all boring shite, and why can't some be passive bonuses anyway? Artifacts are literally passive talent trees. Tier set bonuses through the years have ranged from 10% crit boring to cool stuff, similar with legendaries. Give the system a chance?

  11. #71
    Quote Originally Posted by Aphrel View Post
    Havoc demonhunters feels great playing.
    You will not find many people that agree with that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by yjmark View Post
    I think people are misunderstanding azerite traits. If you really look at them, they are equivalent to the artifact traits + tier bonuses + legos. They have as much impact to game play as any of those did.
    Except that they do not have that much impact. It already starts with the fact that the effects do not stack.

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    Quote Originally Posted by vkpush View Post
    I don't mind, the Havoc m+ azerite traits are really good
    They would be "ok" if they would stack, but they do not stack -> They are garbage.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    I just love the concept of Wildfire Infusion; a talent that behaves differently randomly and forces you to adapt to it with every use.
    I also really like this talent, now only the numbers need to fixed.

  12. #72
    Quote Originally Posted by Accendor View Post
    You will not find many people that agree with that.

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    Except that they do not have that much impact. It already starts with the fact that the effects do not stack.

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    They would be "ok" if they would stack, but they do not stack -> They are garbage.
    It's actually inarguable to say at least a fair few Azerite traits don't have as much impact as many tier bonuses and Artifact traits. They actually do. Also, from what i understand traits stack in some ways, but not others. Damage being one.

  13. #73
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaira View Post
    I have done since it was introduced in Beta and it was garbage then and its still garbage now at least the artifact added extra attacks and other useful things to your abilities rather than a flat speed boost or temp damage buff oh and lets not forget the fantastic shield. Seriously the system is shit.
    Sounds like you're willfully ignoring all the traits that literally do change your abilities/gameplay in some way. Of course you won't like the system if you act like that.

  14. #74
    Quote Originally Posted by SensationalBanana View Post
    Go on PTR and decide for yourself.

    Everyone's got a different opinion.
    Everyone's got a different opinion but when something works well, most people are able to recognize that.

  15. #75
    Affliction is so damn nice. Very oldschool.

  16. #76
    I love outlaw

  17. #77
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaira View Post
    So are you telling me one of these traits is going to give me back something like flurry of arrows because from what I've seen so far... They Don't!
    So you think passives are fun? That adds nothing to your gameplay, just flashy animations? Sums this up i suppose.

  18. #78
    Quote Originally Posted by Thelxi View Post
    Affliction is so damn nice. Very oldschool.
    you like generating shards with RNG? gross

  19. #79
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaira View Post
    So are you telling me one of these traits is going to give me back something like flurry of arrows because from what I've seen so far... They Don't!
    I have no idea what 'Flurry of Arrows' is tbh so i couldn't tell you.

  20. #80
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaira View Post
    It may be just a flashy animation but its a damned sight lot better than a heal or speed buff on kill of an enemy, you know because it actually adds something to the combat you're currently in.
    Why are you just using the "utility" traits as examples? There are lots of better traits at tier 1. And the higher gear you get, the more options you get.

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