Azerite AP and leveling XP nerf

[valky94]

i think its a good change, on beta i finished tiragarde and stormsong (not all quest lines for achie) and completed the warcampaign and i was 120, didnt even touch drustvar

[Jinzuru]

Not everything in MMO has to be challenging. Have you been on L2? Its just mindless grind. Glorified Vanilla was not challenging at all prior nax, just extremely time consuming for group forming/grinding items. Same with tbc, you had to grind EVERY FACTION to revered to get into all HC runs, which were challenging at first, but not the for rep. Time investment in MMORPG has been a thing since forever. People who want challenge and not to get bored should play dark souls, but you will get wastly less hours out of it, but you will get challeged. You want blizz to make wow last 2 years and be challenging/action packed all the time? Wrong genre mate... or you want 50 bosses raids to be a thing? Creating content and balancing it within so many other aspects of game/various different classes/specs with some classes having advantages over it is A LOT of work. Such a game would need more than 5 years of developement. Witcher 3 is a materpiece, 2 DLCs gave me 200 hours of pure joy. What is 200 hours for a gamer for 2 years? I can do 200 hours in wow in 3 months. 3 hours a day, 5 days a week is not even that much, or 2.2 hrs every day for 3 months is not even hardcore. How am I supposed to be challenged for a duration of a raid tier if I get cutting edge 3 months into a tier? More bosses/harder tunning? Then some other people will ztart screaming that it has to be nerfed, because my challenge is different to theirs.

Never claimed that everything has to be challenging. Played L2, left in 2 weeks. My Vanilla experience ended in Arathi Highlands farming ogres/raptors/spiders/lowbies. I was fine withTBC rep and attunement, would love to see that return.
Nothing wrong having easier stuff.
I'd prefer to choose what amount of time I put into content, it can be 2 days or 2 months, but it will be my choice. Just making obligatory "wait X weeks" is not content.

[Deleted]

It is already super fast to level up your artifact on beta, so this is alot less impactful than 53% make it look like. The artifact grind is much like the Broken Shore or Argus grind. To Concordance or 75, and then the benefit of AP becomes alot lower. In BfA you just need to reach the level that enabled your Azerite traits, which is easier than reaching Concordance or 75.

But I can see why it is easy to not understand this if you are an MMO-C hardcore wannabe like Alright.

[Sencha]

"Grinding is content" - Blizzard™

[Floopa]

this post is for people who will be raiding mythic week 1, if you are not raiding mythic week 1 the azerite power changes DO NOT concern you.

you need level 24 in order to unlock the first 2 rings of mythic uldir azerite gear (and by extension i imagine m+ =>10 azerite gear)

prior to this change level 24 was very easy to hit before week 1 mythic. after these changes you'll probably need an extra week (easy to hit for week 2 mythic), so what this means is it is very likely that unless you can farm all of the "one time only" sources of AP (which are significantly better than repeatable sources of AP): m0s, world quests, invasions, war fronts, et al. and you were to get a mythic uldir azerite piece you might, actually, be better off using a heroic piece instead.

basically:
Mythic: you need 22 for chest, 23 for helm, 24 for shoulders to unlock 2 rings (which are the most beneficial and more powerful).
Heroic: you need 20 for chest, 21 for helm, 22 for shoulders to unlock 2 rings
Normal: you need 18 for chest, 19 for helm, 20 for shoulders to unlock 2 rings

to unlock mythic uldir azerite armours "+5 item level" (the final ring) you need level 32/33/34.

basically all this means is that mythic players who are actively progressing from the initial mythic uldir release are going to have to play significantly more than they would otherwise have had to. anyone who is content doing normal or heroic modes is not affected by this at all.

i guess it makes sense, mythic players are very likely going to feel "forced" to spam m+ dungeons when they become available because of the new PL rules that are attached to all raids (i can explain why, but should be obvious why mythic players may feel forced). because they're likely to spam m+, they'll be able to earn a large amount of the necessary AP from this alone.

TL;DR: this change really only effects a guild who wants to push for world first, anyone who raids mythic week 1 might be a bit annoyed that a heroic azerite piece is stronger than a mythic azerite piece because they lack 1 or 2 levels. anyone who doesn't raid mythic is not going to feel the effects of this at all.

[Tradu]

Level speed was kind of ridiculous. Can only speak for Horde but you could easily get to 120 via 2/3 or the story quests...and thats if you strictly stuck to the story. I thought the speed was some sort of beta only setting TBH.

Azerite actually felt slow, buts thats only because its not hard to earn gear, which could also be due to it being beta. On that same note, I know people who flew through Azerite levels like they were nothing.

And what's wrong with "only" needing 2/3rds? We have to do them all once for flying regardless, so it's not like we'd never do them. This change just means leveling alts is going to be more repetitive.

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The 15% they added will wash for me since warmode gives me a 15% boost.

That makes no sense, since you would also have warmode without the increase.

[Arainie]

Whining knows no limits on MMO-Champion!

1) They have done this nearly every beta for every expansion. XP rates are set generously to help people level up and test content in Alpha/Beta and then adjusted towards the end to something more realistic. They did the EXACT same thing in Legion's beta... and people whined about the huge anti-fun nerf then too (and promptly forgot about it obviously, as the same people are back whining again)

2) It's not a nerf when it was never live in the first place. Beta is a testing platform. They aren't nerfing anything when it's not something you've ever done before. Everyone is on the same even playing field when the game actually goes Live. It's like when they adjust numbers on new abilities... number tuning on beta is not the same as hotfixing in a nerf on Live to something people are already playing.

I know right, but people are like goldfish when it comes to remembering things that don't benefit them. The values on alpha/beta have always been lower for testing purpouses, just look at something as recent as the legendary drop rate on Legion beta. More or less everyone who spent some time on the beta had a legendary within the first 30 hours playtime whereas most of us spent well over 100 hours on live without getting our first. It's nothing new, but people will whine whenever the opportunity is given nowdays.

And what's wrong with "only" needing 2/3rds? We have to do them all once for flying regardless, so it's not like we'd never do them. This change just means leveling alts is going to be more repetitive.

This is not a change to BfA. No values from beta were ever confirmed to go live until an actual release. Everything on alpha/beta is subject to alterations until released, nothing you see on there represents the full final product. It's first and foremost a testing ground for Blizzard, not a testing ground for you. Blizzard have no obligation what so ever to keep the beta experience up to date with the live experience or the other way around.

[Diggster]

So leveling as warmode with this change will feel the exact same as leveling without warmode before the change. I thought the point of playing with warmode was to level fast? No doubt the XP requirement increase is due to the fast pace in leveling with warmode on.

The point of warmode was so that people that wanted to do World PvP could do, without having to worry about whether you're on a PvP server or not. The XP bonus was just supposed to compensate for potential time loss caused by fighting/dying to other players.

[Tradu]

Whining knows no limits on MMO-Champion!

1) They have done this nearly every beta for every expansion. XP rates are set generously to help people level up and test content in Alpha/Beta and then adjusted towards the end to something more realistic. They did the EXACT same thing in Legion's beta... and people whined about the huge anti-fun nerf then too (and promptly forgot about it obviously, as the same people are back whining again)

2) It's not a nerf when it was never live in the first place. Beta is a testing platform. They aren't nerfing anything when it's not something you've ever done before. Everyone is on the same even playing field when the game actually goes Live. It's like when they adjust numbers on new abilities... number tuning on beta is not the same as hotfixing in a nerf on Live to something people are already playing.

If they want us to test max level content, they could just give us max level premades while leaving leveling speed the same it would be on live, so people can actually give feedback on leveling speed.

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This is not a change to BfA. No values from beta were ever confirmed to go live until an actual release. Everything on alpha/beta is subject to alterations until released, nothing you see on there represents the final product. It's first and foremost a testing ground for Blizzard, not a testing ground for you. Blizzard have no obligation what so ever to keep the beta experience up to date with the live experience or the other way around.

Numbers are different now compared to the previous build. That's what a change is. I don't mind changes to the alpha/beta, in fact I'd like to see more of them rather than having them happen through live hotfixes, but that doesn't make this not a change(and giving feedback about changes is what the alpha/beta process is about)

[~Valen~]

Time-consuming =/= challenging.

Time is often part of the challenge - Vanilla after all was time-consuming rather than challenging.

[Raelbo]

So leveling as warmode with this change will feel the exact same as leveling without warmode before the change. I thought the point of playing with warmode was to level fast? No doubt the XP requirement increase is due to the fast pace in leveling with warmode on.

Your comments here are nonsensical

Playing with warmode on will still result in a faster levelling process than without it. So the point remains the same. The XP requirement was changed because in beta they want to fasttrack people so that they test out more content. Beta is not meant to be the final product, it's a testing ground for the final product tuned to be most effective for that purpose.

*Players complain about Legion AP grinds

*Blizzard adds AP in BfA

If Blizzard took out everything that anyone complained about, there would nothing left in the game. Some people will complain about anything. The general consensus is that AP was a good thing. The biggest problem it had in the beginning of Legion was stupid people who felt compelled to over-grind it instead of allowing it to flow in at the intended rate. They pretty much fixed that later with having infinite concordance.

-Azerite gets nothing but negative feedback
*Blizzard increases the AP needed near the end of the beta cycle.

Seems like a case of confirmation bias on your part

I''m having difficulty understanding the logic in this.

Based on the strength of your argument I absolutely believe you. Realise though that the problem isn't with the logic.

[pzijderv]

Spoken like a true addict.

If you need a grind to keep you playing then the content itself isn't compelling.


Remember when we didn't have any of these moronic grind systems and people still played just to hunt gear? I do.


Azerite was destined to fail from the start.

A). Too easy to soft-cap. People won't play the stupid Islands because they're the best source.

B). Too hard to farm. People will get Azerite Armour loot drops and not be able to use them for weeks while they farm the required HoA level.


Pick one - they're both a fail.

You mean when people didn't grind rep in vanilla, or had to grind fire resist gear? How is this any different from a gear grind?

[Arainie]

Numbers are different now compared to the previous build. That's what a change is. I don't mind changes to the alpha/beta, in fact I'd like to see more of them rather than having them happen through live hotfixes, but that doesn't make this not a change(and giving feedback about changes is what the alpha/beta process is about)

Sure it's a change to the beta, but I will bet you my precious balls that it was always intended to be increased before BfA went live. Everything points towards this - both common sense and previous history. Do you actually think it makes sense to hit 120 before you've at least completed the entire leveling story (without war mode ofcourse)? It essentially incentivizes people to drop the story before it's completed and go do things that actually improves your character. The AP change is also in line with everything you'd expect, it's most definitely intended to be a constant means for character progression and not a short burst progression. If that doesn't make sense then I don't get this "young" world anymore, maybe I lost touch with everything when I turned 30 who knows :P

Edit: Typos

[Aeula]

Whelp there goes my hope of having my alts leveled before they re-introduce heirlooms. I thought they'd finally made leveling a little more friendly but nope.

Plus we have to go through 110-120 to get the Mag'har and Dark Iron heritage sets, so now they're even more of a grind.

[Leih]

If they want us to test max level content, they could just give us max level premades while leaving leveling speed the same it would be on live, so people can actually give feedback on leveling speed.

They want you to test levelling. They just don't want it to take quite as long to get through it.

[Nutrition]

You mean when people didn't grind rep in vanilla, or had to grind fire resist gear? How is this any different from a gear grind?

I am not really sure if you are being sarcastic or not... on the off chance this is a actual question I'm going to awnser it.

You didn't need to grind rep in vanilla. It offered benefits but it wasn't need at any point. Resist gear also came from a whole host of places including crafting it wasn't banging your head against a wall over and over again...

The only required grind I can think of in vanilla was onyxia cloaks and frozen runes but you still had the option of buying those from other players.

You can like reparative grinds Korean mmos are a thing but don't try to mask your desire around a false past.

[Jinzuru]

Time is often part of the challenge - Vanilla after all was time-consuming rather than challenging.

In Vanilla this may be so. Now time is worthless, equality of outcome and RNGesus fest everywhere.

[~Valen~]

In Vanilla this may be so. Now time is worthless, equality of outcome and RNGesus fest everywhere.

Right, so we should just be given everything on a platter and be done. What are you playing the game for?

[Deleted]

Never claimed that everything has to be challenging. Played L2, left in 2 weeks. My Vanilla experience ended in Arathi Highlands farming ogres/raptors/spiders/lowbies. I was fine withTBC rep and attunement, would love to see that return.
Nothing wrong having easier stuff.
I'd prefer to choose what amount of time I put into content, it can be 2 days or 2 months, but it will be my choice. Just making obligatory "wait X weeks" is not content.

It is not for you. For me it is. Who is right? No one. We have to live with decisions of devs. No need to scream after each change, which someone does not like, because there are people who like it. Until it can be statistically proven, it is just an opinion, but most of complaining people just state an opinion as a fact. Blizz has all the numbers of complaining people vs people who don't express themselves, therefore are okay with it or just get over it.

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Right, so we should just be given everything on a platter and be done. What are you playing the game for?

So... those mythic guilds which killed argus pre nerf/buff were just good at rng? Nothing to do with those weeks of 3 day raiding, countless pulls, optimisation. They just got lucky.

[Jeina]

Spoken like a true addict.

If you need a grind to keep you playing then the content itself isn't compelling.


Remember when we didn't have any of these moronic grind systems and people still played just to hunt gear? I do.


Azerite was destined to fail from the start.

A). Too easy to soft-cap. People won't play the stupid Islands because they're the best source.

B). Too hard to farm. People will get Azerite Armour loot drops and not be able to use them for weeks while they farm the required HoA level.


Pick one - they're both a fail.

You always had to grind for gear.