“Resolution”

[Omedon]

It looked like all races communicating and grouping together, like in WoW Alpha. Factions should have only been a thing for friendly competition, i.e. BGs. They missed the chance at launch. WotLK was their second missed opportunity. We should have ended it after ICC. Then again after DS.

I have some hope it may be ending after BfA. they are removing Pv/PvE restrictions to servers with Warmode. Next step is to make PvP a free for all for anyone flagged. They can then remove communication and grouping restrictions and allow us all to play with each other. It really has made no sense since the end of WC3 to keep factions.

I never really thought of it going back that far but I can't really disagree with you!

[Coldkil]

It looked like all races communicating and grouping together, like in WoW Alpha. Factions should have only been a thing for friendly competition, i.e. BGs. They missed the chance at launch. WotLK was their second missed opportunity. We should have ended it after ICC. Then again after DS.

I have some hope it may be ending after BfA. they are removing PvP/PvE restrictions to servers with Warmode. Next step is to make PvP a free for all for anyone flagged. They can then remove communication and grouping restrictions and allow us all to play with each other. It really has made no sense since the end of WC3 to keep factions.

Well, imho Factions have had a point up until now including BfA - it's been a long road before leaders realized that we needed to group up against bigger issues. BfA is the perfect occasion to make a step in this direction.

I wouldn't go all the way down free for all PvP - even in Warmode. It doesn't really work good honestly, but i'd be totally down with the idea of Factions as Reputations. Basically if you want to PvP (BG, WPvP, Arenas) you can enlist from the NPC representative of your PvP "faction" and activate Warmode aswell the access to all PvP related activities. This keeps a two-faction structure in place since it's needed to make casual BGs and other stuff to actually function (while you can already enlist for the opposite faction at any time). All rated stuff won't change since factions have no meaning there.

Imho it's the only logical progression for the story.

[Cosmic Janitor]

Well, imho Factions have had a point up until now including BfA - it's been a long road before leaders realized that we needed to group up against bigger issues. BfA is the perfect occasion to make a step in this direction.

I wouldn't go all the way down free for all PvP - even in Warmode. It doesn't really work good honestly, but i'd be totally down with the idea of Factions as Reputations. Basically if you want to PvP (BG, WPvP, Arenas) you can enlist from the NPC representative of your PvP "faction" and activate Warmode aswell the access to all PvP related activities. This keeps a two-faction structure in place since it's needed to make casual BGs and other stuff to actually function (while you can already enlist for the opposite faction at any time). All rated stuff won't change since factions have no meaning there.

Imho it's the only logical progression for the story.

Really? Now is the only logical progression for that? Not after we defeated the worst evil in the history of warcraft up to this date while our fucking planet is dying? Not after our world was in perril because said threat arrived and we stopped talking to one another because of a silly misunderstanding that was only upheld because of "mass-stupid" syndrome? Not after the alliance and horde rebells raided the fallen warchief of the horde and they could have forged lasting peace there? Not after we banded together with the dragon flights and took down the moster that ravaged the very face of our world?

What of all things makes you think now, when the conflict is more strenous and more forced than ever they would suddenly care about going down the logical route? Don't get me wrong, I want it, I just don't think there is any reasonable sign anywhere that it will happen now of all times, other than maybe more and more people expressing how little they care about the faction stuff.

As for the middle part, I do agree with that. I doubt they'd go for FFA PvP, since most (W)PvPers are cowards that only dare to do it in groups or when they can backstab someone and most PvP realms have a huge skew in A:H ratio for a reason. Something along the Aldor vs. Scryers line would make sense. I mean they could always have some factions somewhere that represet the fanatic splinters of the old horde and alliance while the majority can just go about their buisness saving the damn planet. Heck I wouldn't even mind some grind (with story quests) to slowly earn the trust of opposite faction on a post kill-on-sight azeroth.

[Coldkil]

Really? Now is the only logical progression for that? Not after we defeated the worst evil in the history of warcraft up to this date while our fucking planet is dying? Not after our world was in perril because said threat arrived and we stopped talking to one another because of a silly misunderstanding that was only upheld because of "mass-stupid" syndrome? Not after the alliance and horde rebells raided the fallen warchief of the horde and they could have forged lasting peace there? Not after we banded together with the dragon flights and took down the moster that ravaged the very face of our world?

What of all things makes you think now, when the conflict is more strenous and more forced than ever they would suddenly care about going down the logical route? Don't get me wrong, I want it, I just don't think there is any reasonable sign anywhere that it will happen now of all times, other than maybe more and more people expressing how little they care about the faction stuff.

As for the middle part, I do agree with that. I doubt they'd go for FFA PvP, since most (W)PvPers are cowards that only dare to do it in groups or when they can backstab someone and most PvP realms have a huge skew in A:H ratio for a reason. Something along the Aldor vs. Scryers line would make sense. I mean they could always have some factions somewhere that represet the fanatic splinters of the old horde and alliance while the majority can just go about their buisness saving the damn planet. Heck I wouldn't even mind some grind (with story quests) to slowly earn the trust of opposite faction on a post kill-on-sight azeroth.

Yeah, i can feel you. I don't expect it happening anytime soon if at all. Most probable thing to happen is we get all "infused by the light" and send away ugly voidbois. Though hope never dies and i really hope the AvH conflict ends with a very big mess and everyone just loses. There's plenty of stuff that can still run with smaller factions that hate each other and a player could choose to side with one of the two or neither, but the whole big duality just needs to die.

I really love the idea of getting accepted by the opposite slowly via grind and quests. It shouldn't be a simple "patch X.Y: NO MORE FACTIONS", but something that represent an effort to make things work.

[Omedon]

What of all things makes you think now, when the conflict is more strenous and more forced than ever they would suddenly care about going down the logical route? Don't get me wrong, I want it, I just don't think there is any reasonable sign anywhere that it will happen now of all times, other than maybe more and more people expressing how little they care about the faction stuff.

I know you're not technically asking me, but I do follow the logic of attacking the faction divide now because BFA is pointedly the faction divide expansion: They put it on the box. With the exception of MoP (which, again, mentioned at its unveil that the final boss was Garrosh in lieu of the "villain on the box" feature), the villain/figure on the box has its arc resolved in that expansion. Yes, "Battle for Azeroth" as a title reeks to high heaven of a double entendre, but unless we get that crazy "NEVERMINDWARHERE'SAZSHARAANDNZOTHNOWSAVETHEPLANET" swerve by 8.1, heck even if we get that swerve, this is the expansion where the faction conflict is on the box, and so we are owed that resolution-level attention, as hyped and advertised, or the hype machine and the trust involved with it is forever damaged.

[Cosmic Janitor]

I know you're not technically asking me, but I do follow the logic of attacking the faction divide now because BFA is pointedly the faction divide expansion: They put it on the box. With the exception of MoP (which, again, mentioned at its unveil that the final boss was Garrosh in lieu of the "villain on the box" feature), the villain/figure on the box has its arc resolved in that expansion. Yes, "Battle for Azeroth" as a title reeks to high heaven of a double entendre, but unless we get that crazy "NEVERMINDWARHERE'SAZSHARAANDNZOTHNOWSAVETHEPLANET" swerve by 8.1, heck even if we get that swerve, this is the expansion where the faction conflict is on the box, and so we are owed that resolution-level attention, as hyped and advertised, or the hype machine and the trust involved with it is forever damaged.

After ramping up the atrocity counter in BfA to never before seen levels (in WoW at least) and displacing another faction and their own, while reaching new hights when it comes to war crimes on top of that, they are now supposed to shake hands? I think it is the opposite of your argument actually, we have reached the point where they will have to come up with one of the most ludicrious plottwists ever to reach this point we seek. And while complete and utter crushing defeat and dismanteling of both factions may be a possibility, I very much doubt that blizzard would dare to take on such an ambitious project this late into the game. I just don't see it. I mean the writing is bad, but the vector why it's bad does not point into the direction they'd have to go for to make this work, it points in the opposite direction only increasing the distance, which knowing blizzard (and their awful writing crutches) is a direction they limp in for a reason. A reason that is probably more along the lines of preserving this dried husk of a plot line.

Edit: Mind you, I will be the first to jump with joy should my estimation be wrong. I just doubt it very much.

[Slowpoke is a Gamer]

How's it shoehorned when pretty much all the races hate each other and for good reason? If anything shit's too peaceful.

They hate each other because Blizz kills off the two tenuous peacekeeping faction leaders in legion and replaces them with.... Future Raid Boss since Cata Sylvanas, and Revenge Blinded Genn acting as Anduin's Grand Vizier.

[dope_danny]

The leaders have the actual people of each faction declare they have had enough with the years of horseshit riding on the opinions and emotions of a few powerful but massively unstable/damaged individuals and broker a peace without them. Lose the language barrier for players, make faction reps more important than horde vs alliance so shit like explorers vs reliquary can be a focus of a story instead of a single questline every few expansions or something.

[Omedon]

The leaders have the actual people of each faction declare they have had enough with the years of horseshit riding on the opinions and emotions of a few powerful but massively unstable/damaged individuals and broker a peace without them. Lose the language barrier for players, make faction reps more important than horde vs alliance so shit like explorers vs reliquary can be a focus of a story instead of a single questline every few expansions or something.

I definitely think that individual decisions could be the direction they can or should take any divergence from the norm we know now. I've been saying for months that the dissention stories in BFA datamined lore/dialogue and in the before the storm novel (hello! a cross-faction marriage!) are potential seeds being planted.

As an example: I do not think they will do something crazy like have a whole race (forsaken) break off from the horde because they won't do something that big and non-consensual without giving a choice to absolutely everyone playing the game. They're not going to pull out "and after this patch the forsaken are part of the new undead faction!" That's just wrenching and even more god moding to individual characters than any lore we've ever seen... and that's saying quite a bit!

[Deleted]

My hope has been since launch in 2004 that we would eventually explore all of Azeroth (we did), and that Sargeras would come to destroy the world (he did), and that the world would eventually be obliterated when Azeroth is born (in the Lore when a Titan is created, it's world is destroyed). However, weird Blizz stories might change this, so regardless of how it is destroyed, I think my idea of a resolution is that the world is completely destroyed, but we escape through the dark portal to a new world. A place without lore, with new races, new classes. Effectively, at this point it is WoW2.

In other words, like in the real world, my idea of resolution is total destruction!

I'm down for this.

[cparle87]

[QUOTE=The Anax;49669758]My hope has been since launch in 2004 that we would eventually explore all of Azeroth (we did), and that Sargeras would come to destroy the world (he did), and that the world would eventually be obliterated when Azeroth is born (in the Lore when a Titan is created, it's world is destroyed)./QUOTE]

Source? There's been no lore established whatsoever about what happens to a planet when its world-soul is born. Players have been speculating about it ever since Chronicles V1 came out cause Blizzard was deliberately vague on the process.

[Broken Fox]

It feels very likely. With the MDI being an esport, I don’t see them maintaining a faction wall in the formation of potential teams.

At the very least I expect there to be a faction agnostic version of communities, with full grouping options within. How or if they motivate it via story remains to be seen. I don’t expect them to listen, at all to the ol’ “I don’t want to see the other faction in my dungeon group” crowd, because ultimately as much as this is an RPG, no one sane is seeing the 50th clear of a dungeon as an “in character” undertaking. Let’s Be real, at that point you’re there for numbers.

Indeed, there’s a sound argument that the dungeon run is OOC as early as the second run. Point is, there is no defensible, healthy argument for “I don’t want to dungeon with the other faction” once dungeons go “out of character.”

I think there’s a lot of wishful thinking going on here. They’ve done nothing but reinforce the distinction of the two sides with Legion and now BFA. It’ll always be Red vs Blue, y’all need to stop.

[Soon-TM]

I think there’s a lot of wishful thinking going on here. They’ve done nothing but reinforce the distinction of the two sides with Legion and now BFA. It’ll always be Red vs Blue, y’all need to stop.

Legion is one of the least AvH-oriented xpacs ever, with both hordies and allies cuddling together at the several class halls. The only AvH subplot, i.e. the Genn vs Sylvanas showdown at Stormheim, ended in... well, nothing. At least nothing with any effect on Legion's storyline.

[The Anax]

[QUOTE=cparle87;49688378]

My hope has been since launch in 2004 that we would eventually explore all of Azeroth (we did), and that Sargeras would come to destroy the world (he did), and that the world would eventually be obliterated when Azeroth is born (in the Lore when a Titan is created, it's world is destroyed)./QUOTE]

Source? There's been no lore established whatsoever about what happens to a planet when its world-soul is born. Players have been speculating about it ever since Chronicles V1 came out cause Blizzard was deliberately vague on the process.

Source? Well, let's say you have a bird. It grows in an egg. When it is born, I have never seen the egg remain whole. I am not even sure the physics that would allow something the size of a planet, stand up or break through the surface, without leaving a mark lol Hell, even if the titans have mountains and rivers and other such things on their creepy bodies, then you have all new issues. So, if it's like a transformer and she stands up and we are on the surface, the ocean is gone into space, the gravity of a sphere is gone, the atmosphere is lost to space. I don't have a source besides logic.

[Cosmic Janitor]

Source? Well, let's say you have a bird. It grows in an egg. When it is born, I have never seen the egg remain whole. I am not even sure the physics that would allow something the size of a planet, stand up or break through the surface, without leaving a mark lol Hell, even if the titans have mountains and rivers and other such things on their creepy bodies, then you have all new issues. So, if it's like a transformer and she stands up and we are on the surface, the ocean is gone into space, the gravity of a sphere is gone, the atmosphere is lost to space. I don't have a source besides logic.

I see you haven't been to Outland or Mac Aree lately.

My guess is that should our titan ever fully awaken it will be via some kind of avatar and the rest of her will remain just the floaty world soul type of deal. I'm not seeing blizzard ever killing off the planent (as in the rock), I think we'd sooner see azeroth (the titan) dying.

[GoKs]

Yea I honestly dont know why they keep going with the faction war (except for the original concept of orc vs human). Every xpac it is the same thing, band together to fight the big threat. If they want to keep going with this separated factions they must start separating raids and dungeons, but that would cause more tears and be more difficult for them to do, just take the 2 and make them whole. For pvp there could always be reasons, I mean not every one sees eye to eye so there could be skirmishes among regular people (hey he stole my looties from boar #1338923 so I am going to kill him, or he is killing all the piggies now I have to wait for them to respawn.... shit like that), and for arenas and bg it could be one huge family fight =P. The fact is no mater what we will always band together against the bigger threat, they cant stray away from that because they cant make different raids and dungeons for separate factions, and not one faction can say they are not going to fight the big bad because if one loses the battle the rest is doomed. Just my 2c....

[Deleted]

Sylvanas breaks off to be a third faction in northrend as the new lich queen or whatever taking the barbies with her, any of the barbies who choose not to join her get kicked out the Horde and thrown to the void, forcing them into the alliance as more Void Elves. Creating a faction of Undead, Belf, Vrykul and San'Layn.

The normal nelfs sort out their differences with the crack nelves and joined with the draenei get sick of the alliance and greymane, splitting off to be their own fourth faction with the intent of actually establishing a land of their own. Creating a facton of Nelf, Nightborne, Draenei and the Broken Draenei.

The boy king does whatever the generic alliance borefest do whilst taking in many of the barbie refugees as they can. Dealing with an internal civil war between humans and worgen as greymane refuses to accept defeat as easily as the boy king will and insisting the alliance chase sylvanas into northrend. Spurring off a very subpar spinoff single player game where you play as mathies shaw in an SI:7 stealth game. Dwarves and gnomes look into building a secret underground tram to create an all new ironforge gnomeregan hybrid to gtfo. Creating a faction of Human, Dwarf, Gnome and whatever the blood elves decide to call themselves this time around, oh yeah void elves.

The Horde reigns supreme with Saurfang and Hellscream being our literal 2 man army that no one will ever dare face, possibly reinstating Thrall as our warchief. Creating the glorious Faction of Goblins, Orcs, Tauren and Trolls.

WoW ends, Warcraft 4 starts the story off once Hellscream and Saurfang have died of old age allowing the other 3 factions to stand the slightest of chances of being a threat once they get their shit together and then the cycle continues for WoW 2. A goblin can dream.

[Omedon]

I think there’s a lot of wishful thinking going on here. They’ve done nothing but reinforce the distinction of the two sides with Legion and now BFA. It’ll always be Red vs Blue, y’all need to stop.

I will fully admit that there is wishful thinking involved with the lens I am seeing the lead-in to this expansion with, but you can't deny that putting the faction war "on the box" like Arthas, Deathwing, the Iron horde warlords and Illidan suggests a core story that would feel incomplete without some degree of resolution. The question really is what does that resolution look like, and what does that red vs blue line look like after it?

I don't think the red/blue line will ever completely vanish, but there is room for change, and that change can be designed to catch WoW up with other MMO expectations that don't seperate players artificially from enjoying the game together regardless of character race.

[Broken Fox]

Legion is one of the least AvH-oriented xpacs ever, with both hordies and allies cuddling together at the several class halls. The only AvH subplot, i.e. the Genn vs Sylvanas showdown at Stormheim, ended in... well, nothing. At least nothing with any effect on Legion's storyline.

Broken Shore is still in peoples' minds and the Sylvanas/Genn thing isn't over. Faction halls have nothing to do with Horde or Alliance. Most of those NPCs are neutral and don't care about either side.

[The Anax]

I see you haven't been to Outland or Mac Aree lately.

My guess is that should our titan ever fully awaken it will be via some kind of avatar and the rest of her will remain just the floaty world soul type of deal. I'm not seeing blizzard ever killing off the planent (as in the rock), I think we'd sooner see azeroth (the titan) dying.

If there's one thing I learned over a decade ago, its never argue over make believe.