View Poll Results: 10 days left, what'll it be?

Voters
92. This poll is closed
  • Hard Brexit (crash out)

    45 48.91%
  • No Brexit (Remain by revoking A50)

    24 26.09%
  • Withdrawal Agreement (after a new session is called)

    0 0%
  • Extension + Withdrawal Agreement

    3 3.26%
  • Extension + Crashout

    9 9.78%
  • Extension + Remain

    11 11.96%
  1. #5641
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    I mean maybe that's for the best?
    It's certainly in the best interests of everyone else in the EU.

    You'll find no argument from me there.

  2. #5642
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    I mean it's good for the UK as well. Did you really want to be paying the pension for people who could not even bother to ever show up for their job except once, to gloat?
    I think we'd still have to, iirc from the bit of research I did towards a Norway style deal, there's still an EEA council, but it's basically the kids table compared to EU.

  3. #5643
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    Oh does Norway and Co. elect people to sit there? Or is it just a couple of people appointed by their governments as observers?
    Not sure if there elected or not, but I do know that the EFTA has a council that meets a number of times a year, and i'm pretty sure its a permanent representative.

    We'd get to be on a council with such political heavyweights like Liechtenstein and Iceland.

  4. #5644
    Ojou-sama Medusa Cascade's Avatar
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    Let's just put the kettle on and forget this ever happened.

  5. #5645
    Quote Originally Posted by Pann View Post
    No, try reading what is in front of you. I answered Slant's question nothing more.
    This little exchange with you is why people end up getting irritated and lashing out at you on this forum. The way you address people is consistently arrogant and dismissive. If this is intentional, then please let me know. Then I can add you to my ignore list and safely forget about anything you have to say. But if you genuinely want to debate, then wind the attitude in and debate the points.

    People are going to go beyond the simple words you write; they are going to extrapolate to establish what you are trying to say. Sure, in some cases that is a deliberate ploy to try and strawman, but that wasn't what I was trying to do. I read your words, and those you replied to, and genuinely believed that you were trying to make a case that the UK could get this latest deal agreed because individual countries in the EU would be prepared to put their weight behind it for their own self-interest. The correct response to my misinterpretation is to simply and politely point out that I was incorrect in my belief. Not to be snarky and sarcastic.

    We can all be better than this.
    When challenging a Kzin, a simple scream of rage is sufficient. You scream and you leap.
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  6. #5646
    Quote Originally Posted by Huehuecoyotl View Post
    This little exchange with you is why people end up getting irritated and lashing out at you on this forum. The way you address people is consistently arrogant and dismissive. If this is intentional, then please let me know. Then I can add you to my ignore list and safely forget about anything you have to say. But if you genuinely want to debate, then wind the attitude in and debate the points.

    People are going to go beyond the simple words you write; they are going to extrapolate to establish what you are trying to say. Sure, in some cases that is a deliberate ploy to try and strawman, but that wasn't what I was trying to do. I read your words, and those you replied to, and genuinely believed that you were trying to make a case that the UK could get this latest deal agreed because individual countries in the EU would be prepared to put their weight behind it for their own self-interest. The correct response to my misinterpretation is to simply and politely point out that I was incorrect in my belief. Not to be snarky and sarcastic.

    We can all be better than this.
    I answered Slant's question nothing more, you replied with a quite patronising post about how I was apparently explaining how the EU would break ranks. I did simply and politely point out that was not what I was doing and I had answering a question, nothing more. To which you came back with a strawman about the four pillars despite the fact I had not once mentioned them which elicited my curt response to you.

    It appears that we are both reading into each other's posts things that are not intended and reacting to it.

    That is not what I meant at all, I was simply giving some reasons as to why it might be beneficial for an EU country, Greece in this example, to agree to the UK's proposal. This does not mean that I think they will agree it or that they will for any reason break ranks with the rest of the EU27. I hope I have cleared up any confusion.

    Now I have a football match to get back to.

  7. #5647
    The Lightbringer dribbles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ctd123 View Post
    Anyone seen the statement yet, soft brexit possible or no brexit.

    Farage, Rees-Mogg, Aaron Banks, Boris, Gove, various racists, @dribbles , your boys took a hell of beating.

    - - - Updated - - -

    and none of the brexiteers are rebelling, hahahahahaha
    Not at all.

    Firstly we have seen 3 pages of a 120 page document containing Treezas wishlist, wait until midweek when we see all of it. Conservative Brexit supporting MP's may start to show their hands in tomorrows papers but possibly not until the whole document is released.

    No matter what, Monsieur Michel "Le grand NON" Barnier still has yet to open his mouth on the British proposals. I am taking wagers on what he is likely to say, fancy it? do you feel lucky? You might do better with a lottery ticket than betting on a Oui!

    All on course for a sweet no deal Brexit steady as she goes, tick tock tick tock, all the white paper has succeeded in doing so far, is increasing the likelihood of the UK government collapsing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pann View Post
    INow I have a football match to get back to.
    Oh i missed it did we win? I suppose if we did it must be Germany next, how they doing?

  8. #5648
    The Unstoppable Force Mayhem's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dribbles View Post
    All on course for a sweet no deal Brexit steady as she goes, tick tock tick tock, all the white paper has succeeded in doing so far, is increasing the likelihood of the UK government collapsing.
    Strong and Stable, right?
    Quote Originally Posted by ash
    So, look um, I'm not a grief counselor, but if it's any consolation, I have had to kill and bury loved ones before. A bunch of times actually.
    Quote Originally Posted by PC2 View Post
    I never said I was knowledge-able and I wouldn't even care if I was the least knowledge-able person and the biggest dumb-ass out of all 7.8 billion people on the planet.

  9. #5649
    Quote Originally Posted by dribbles View Post
    Oh i missed it did we win? I suppose if we did it must be Germany next, how they doing?
    Oh Dribbles you scamp!

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by dribbles View Post
    All on course for a sweet no deal Brexit steady as she goes, tick tock tick tock, all the white paper has succeeded in doing so far, is increasing the likelihood of the UK government collapsing.
    I am curious how you reached this conclusion. JRM and his cohorts might have enough support to call a vote of no confidence but there is nowhere enough support for it to pass.

  10. #5650
    Quote Originally Posted by Mayhem View Post
    Strong and Stable, right?
    Pretty sure he believes that the old guard has to go so that a new and better order can arise. I kinda picture him as Kylo Ren.

  11. #5651
    The Unstoppable Force Mayhem's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kiri View Post
    Pretty sure he believes that the old guard has to go so that a new and better order can arise. I kinda picture him as Kylo Ren.
    I'm pretty sure he believes whatever is helping his play at the time.
    Quote Originally Posted by ash
    So, look um, I'm not a grief counselor, but if it's any consolation, I have had to kill and bury loved ones before. A bunch of times actually.
    Quote Originally Posted by PC2 View Post
    I never said I was knowledge-able and I wouldn't even care if I was the least knowledge-able person and the biggest dumb-ass out of all 7.8 billion people on the planet.

  12. #5652
    The Lightbringer dribbles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pann View Post
    I am curious how you reached this conclusion. JRM and his cohorts might have enough support to call a vote of no confidence but there is nowhere enough support for it to pass.
    Well I would think Labour would jump at any chance for an immediate election and to bring down the government, otherwise you would have the bizarre situation that Theresa May is only kept in post because of the support of Jeremy Corbyn.

  13. #5653
    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    I'll agree with Slant on this. The Four Pillars are sacrosanct to Brussels and the EU is not cracking on this.
    This is far from accurate.

    The EU has chopped and changed these Four Pillars on numerous occasions. There is nothing sacrosanct about them. Further, to somehow believe the EU is united in respect of Brexit is nonsense. The EU and the member states that make up the EU must be seen as seperate; Brussels has its own agenda, which is often at odds with the member states (eg, migration and Hungary and Italy). The member states have different political objectives, different economic pressures, different levels of capital accumulation and different democratic pressures (the latter in the case of the member states, but not in the case of the EU, which is democratically unaccountable). The notion that the EU has a united strategy in regard to Brexit is as wrong as the claim that the UK government has a united Brexit strategy.

  14. #5654
    Quote Originally Posted by dribbles View Post
    Well I would think Labour would jump at any chance for an immediate election and to bring down the government, otherwise you would have the bizarre situation that Theresa May is only kept in post because of the support of Jeremy Corbyn.
    Which is exactly why Rees-Mogg will not get enough support to collapse the government.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    Can you present any insight on where the EU and its individual members have deviated vis a vis Brexit negotiations?
    This all a bit of moot point, free movement is going nowhere if the provisional version of May's proposal is anything to go by.

  15. #5655
    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    Can you present any insight on where the EU and its individual members have deviated vis a vis Brexit negotiations?
    In regard to the 4 pillars, Germany blocks free trade in services to maintain German professional standards and to prevent dilution of its privacy laws in a digital single market. France resists another pillar, free movement of capital, if this results in French firms being taken over.

    On that basis, the notion that the 4 pillars are sacrosanct is not a credible claim to make. This implies that sections of German and French policy is at odds with the 4 pillars and rubbishes the claim that EU member states don't deviate from the 4 pillars. Therefore, how can anyone claim individual member have not deviated from the 4 pillars during the Brexit negoations, when they were already not in compliance?

    The general point is this: The EU has some lofty policies and so-called 'principles', but don't for one moment believe EU member states follow them. There is a lot of picking and choosing going on!

  16. #5656
    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    I mean, Altarion suggested that the EU and its members view the Brexit issue differently asserted it as self-evident, I have a right to ask where they see members deviating from common negotiations.
    They probably do. Isn't the point of the meetings between the heads of EU states to voice their opinions on Brexit and agree a way forward?

  17. #5657
    The Lightbringer dribbles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pann View Post
    Which is exactly why Rees-Mogg will not get enough support to collapse the government.

    - - - Updated - - -



    This all a bit of moot point, free movement is going nowhere if the provisional version of May's proposal is anything to go by.
    It doesn't have to be Rees-Mogg that asks if the house has confidence in Theresa to deliver the Brexit people voted for. I mean Labours Frank Field could do it, any of them on the Brexit side whose constituents voted in the majority to leave. I wouldn't rule that out either. What is Treezas majority, 13 on a good day with the wind blowing in the right strong and stable direction?

    And freedom of movement? I mean isn't that collapsing across the EU anyway? Schengen seems pretty dead with borders going up again all over the place at the request of mad Merkel. But when the British ask for a bit of control re borders, oh no the EU says, you can't have that. Seems like if the EU stick the barbed wire up again at their nations borders that problem might even go away. They could even stick one up on the border with Ireland/NI....Why not?

  18. #5658
    Quote Originally Posted by dribbles View Post
    It doesn't have to be Rees-Mogg that asks if the house has confidence in Theresa to deliver the Brexit people voted for. I mean Labours Frank Field could do it, any of them on the Brexit side whose constituents voted in the majority to leave. I wouldn't rule that out either. What is Treezas majority, 13 on a good day with the wind blowing in the right strong and stable direction?

    And freedom of movement? I mean isn't that collapsing across the EU anyway? Schengen seems pretty dead with borders going up again all over the place at the request of mad Merkel. But when the British ask for a bit of control re borders, oh no the EU says, you can't have that. Seems like if the EU stick the barbed wire up again at their nations borders that problem might even go away. They could even stick one up on the border with Ireland/NI....Why not?
    This is the Brexit you voted for. Brexit means Brexit, remember? Well this is Brexit.

    No confidence motions initiated by the opposition rarely succeed and I would say it would be extremely unlikely that Labour would table a vote and risk being the ones who carry the can for Brexit.

  19. #5659
    Quote Originally Posted by dribbles View Post
    Oh i missed it did we win? I suppose if we did it must be Germany next, how they doing?
    Not so good, surprisingly. But that's alright, I hope you guys get it... you've waited what, 50+ years? We get that damn trophy every 20 years or so. And it's about time England stopped sulking and acknowledged that the World Cup is in fact bigger, better and more awesome than any FA cup. You knew it, you just never wanted to admit it. I'll see you around the ceremony, when suddenly the NT is totally super important. :P
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  20. #5660
    Quote Originally Posted by Altarion View Post
    In regard to the 4 pillars, Germany blocks free trade in services to maintain German professional standards and to prevent dilution of its privacy laws in a digital single market. France resists another pillar, free movement of capital, if this results in French firms being taken over.

    On that basis, the notion that the 4 pillars are sacrosanct is not a credible claim to make. This implies that sections of German and French policy is at odds with the 4 pillars and rubbishes the claim that EU member states don't deviate from the 4 pillars. Therefore, how can anyone claim individual member have not deviated from the 4 pillars during the Brexit negoations, when they were already not in compliance?

    The general point is this: The EU has some lofty policies and so-called 'principles', but don't for one moment believe EU member states follow them. There is a lot of picking and choosing going on!
    Yeah, I'll need some examples for your claims. With regards to privacy laws, naturally any claim before the GDPR will be ignored, because I can tell you right now that if there's no EU wide legislation concerning a subject, of course national law applies and if you don't follow that law, you don't do business. Has nothing to do with free trade. You are free to trade. Under the existing legal conditions. If you don't want to follow the rules, that's not anyone blocking you from free trade. That's you trying to live outside the law.
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