Mythic lockout should be removed after Hall of Fame achievement just like cr mythic.

[Firatha]

If they actually want people to start pugging mythic the mythic lockout needs to be removed. This will however most likely kill all guilds not in the top 100 since pugging is just way more convenient.

You must not raid mythic if you think pugs can do mythic progession without overpowering it theres just too much learning how to work together

[Atherions]

what........?

If you actually know how to build solid pugs you can easily build a pug that is better than most "casual" mythic guilds.

[RemoveMythicLockout]

If they actually want people to start pugging mythic the mythic lockout needs to be removed. This will however most likely kill most guilds not in the top 100 since pugging is just way more convenient, the same way heroic only guilds are pretty much dead.

If your guild cannot even be competitive as pugs, it should be killed TBH since these bad guilds are killing this game in the long term.

I think that is why people like Tradu who have basically no good argument hate me since he is afraid his guild gets killed by PUGs.

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No, Blizzard is the one screwing up balance, and (some) guilds play around that by having people play what's best.

Guilds are always screwing underpowered spec players way more than pugs.

[Tradu]

Guilds are always screwing underpowered spec players way more than pugs.

If you only play 1 spec, that's a choice you're making to be less useful. Nobody else is screwing you(other than maybe Blizzard's balancing team), you chose to be weaker. You must join some pretty bad pugs as well if they have no standards for which specs get played. Spoiler, in mythic pugs you also wouldn't just play an inferior spec and get invited back.

[RemoveMythicLockout]

If you only play 1 spec, that's a choice you're making to be less useful. Nobody else is screwing you(other than maybe Blizzard's balancing team), you chose to be weaker.

You admit guilds create more balancing issue than PUGs? In PUGs, no matter how bad your spec is, you can at least 5x easier than guild for getting a raid spot.

[Tradu]

You admit guilds create more balancing issue than PUGs? In PUGs, no matter how bad your spec is, you can at least 5x easier than guild for getting a raid spot.

Guilds have no influence on balance. That's all on Blizzard. Guilds(and good pugs) just have standards when it comes to which specs they invite.

[RemoveMythicLockout]

My point is that GUILDS are BAD for Raiding. Guild should only be used for socializing instead of doing raids. Raid Guilds should be killed

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Guilds have no influence on balance. That's all on Blizzard. Guilds(and good pugs) just have standards when it comes to which specs they invite.

They do have influence on balance and the statistics proves that. One reason why monk is so bad in the long term balancing is because guild does not like players who play new classes which are mostly new players.

[Tradu]

My point is that GUILDS are BAD for Raiding. Guild should only be used for socializing instead of doing raids. Raid Guilds should be killed

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They do have influence on balance and the statistics proves that.

No, they play around the current state of balance. Guilds have no influence on spec balance.

[Krille]

No. Pugs can do the easy bosses, whenever you reach the 200+ wipes bosses it dies out or.. Becomes a guild because they wanna keep playing together.

Heroic is convenient, it's simple. Applying the same logic to Mythic where you need good communication and strategies is not realistic.

[Toby451]

The mythic lockout needs to stay. It will open up a whole new world of abuse for gearing that is unnecessary and for the sake of what?

New world of abuse for gearing... after the race is over. Who cares at that point. The most hardcore guilds will farm it for the next 5+ months straight obtaining the best possible gear for the next tier anyways. The only legitimate concern I have seen is guilds farming extra mounts, which is why I believe the change is likely to never happen. They could implement something basic like 5% reduced chance for the mount to drop for every player in the raid who is already saved to the boss that week.

Then again, I despise the current mythic only drop mounts. Farming the raid for months attempting to get everyone a mount is extremely tedious and not fun. I wish they would just add the mounts to the guild vendor for a decent sum of gold, something like 250k and requires you to have cutting edge for that tier to purchase. Added benefit of being a nice gold sink. When the next tier comes out, you can still obtain the mount the same way current drops work.

If you can't or don't understand why removing the lockout would help a ton of guilds then you are either clueless or being willfully ignorant.

[Krille]

New world of abuse for gearing... after the race is over. Who cares at that point. The most hardcore guilds will farm it for the next 5+ months straight obtaining the best possible gear for the next tier anyways. The only legitimate concern I have seen is guilds farming extra mounts, which is why I believe the change is likely to never happen. They could implement something basic like 5% reduced chance for the mount to drop for every player in the raid who is already saved to the boss that week.

Then again, I despise the current mythic only drop mounts. Farming the raid for months attempting to get everyone a mount is extremely tedious and not fun. I wish they would just add the mounts to the guild vendor for a decent sum of gold, something like 250k and requires you to have cutting edge for that tier to purchase. Added benefit of being a nice gold sink. When the next tier comes out, you can still obtain the mount the same way current drops work.

If you can't or don't understand why removing the lockout would help a ton of guilds then you are either clueless or being willfully ignorant.

Those mounts are there to keep the people that cleared all content in the game, it wont go away.

[RemoveMythicLockout]

Heroic is convenient, it's simple.

Even heroic is simple, a lot of heroic guilds cant even kill it.

Applying the same logic to Mythic where you need good communication and strategies is not realistic.

"need communication and strategies". That is why i would say PUGs are way better in real world since if you dont watch videos before you join a PUG you will be kicked.

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No, they play around the current state of balance. Guilds have no influence on spec balance.

They do because guilds never give a shit about bad spec players.

[Atherions]

You admit guilds create more balancing issue than PUGs? In PUGs, no matter how bad your spec is, you can at least 5x easier than guild for getting a raid spot.

M8 the only reason you are invited into pugs as a "Meme" spec is because the current pugable content is laughably easy. If a real mythic pugging scene would start to develop i can promise you that the good pugs will class stack much harder than any guild outside of top 20.

[Krille]

Even heroic is simple, a lot of heroic guilds cant even kill it.



"need communication and strategies". That is why i would say PUGs are way better in real world since if you dont watch videos before you join a PUG you will be kicked.

Watching videos aint enough dude. You gotta plan ur own strategy. Copying doesnt always work because you don't have equally good players or even the same classes as the guild doing it in the video.

Who cares if heroic guilds can't kill it, it's meant to be puggable content because it requires no specific communication or planning. You can bruteforce most heroic bosses.

[Tradu]

They do because guilds never give a shit about bad spec players.

Again, that has nothing to do with guilds influencing balance. It's the reverse. Balance dictates which specs guilds(and good pugs) bring to their raids. And if you choose to limit yourself to 1 spec, that's a choice. If you play BM while MM is much stronger, that's a choice you made, and if you don't get brought to raids, that's on you. It's not guilds' fault. It's not even Blizzard's fault. It's all on you.

[RemoveMythicLockout]

Watching videos aint enough dude. You gotta plan ur own strategy. Copying doesnt always work because you don't have equally good players or even the same classes as the guild doing it in the video.

Who cares if heroic guilds can't kill it, it's meant to be puggable content because it requires no specific communication or planning. You can bruteforce most heroic bosses.

You dont need "Specific communication" if you do understand mechanism. That is why PUGs are superior.

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Again, that has nothing to do with guilds influencing balance. It's the reverse. Balance dictates which specs guilds(and good pugs) bring to their raids. And if you choose to limit yourself to 1 spec, that's a choice.

You admit guilds create more balancing issues why "reserving"

If you play BM while MM is much stronger, that's a choice you made, and if you don't get brought to raids, that's on you. It's not guilds' fault. It's not even Blizzard's fault. It's all on you.

It is guilds' fault. Compared to guilds, PUG never cares what spec you play since they need maintain enough people during 6 hours while guilds hate bad spec players.

[Tradu]

Even heroic is simple, a lot of heroic guilds cant even kill it.

And even more heroic pugs can't clear it.

[Krille]

You dont need "Specific communication" if you do understand mechanism. That is why PUGs are superior.

Ehh.. Have you ever done mythic raiding when it's new? It sounds like you've got no clue, no offense.

[Marrilaife]

Guilds are always screwing underpowered spec players way more than pugs.

Or rather, mythic raiders are competitive in nature on average and want to top meters so pick OP specs over weak ones. Heroic raiders are more casual so just care less and pick what is "fun" or "looks cool". In the end, Rogue is a Rogue is a Rogue. If what's OP is Assassination for raiding and Subtlety for mythic+, most high end Rogues will play that because they want to be "the best". That's why classes with multiple dps specs will always see people gravitate towards FOTM spec. There is still handful of people playing "underdog" specs because they can get orange parses easier in a spec with little competition.

It's Blizzard's fault they can't make specs balanced and viable. If they were selling burgers for the same price, but of different size and quality, can't blame people they pick the biggest and tastiest one if they're all 5$.

[RemoveMythicLockout]

Ehh.. Have you ever done mythic raiding when it's new? It sounds like you've got no clue, no offense.

I have. I am NOT clueless. I have seen how bad guild are for mythic during my progression these years.