Big class changes in 8.1

[styil]

The irony is that they'll probably say that 8.1 is only a patch, so you shouldn't expect many changes compared to an expansion (despite the expansion having no changes).

[Kithelle]

Had to wait a whole fucking expansion after the epic fail that was Legion Demo...

[Musta]

Havoc... please, Havoc....

[Deleted]

This is more about semantics. Classes are an ongoing process, but we're talking about a particular interval of time and to be ready in the best conditions possible for the first months of the expansion. When it comes to that, Shadow Priest is a spec that is definitely not ready. It has very glaring issues with its mechanics.

People can be attached to their classes and specs, that's why they may not want to reroll, but they would like to see their spec in a decent place at least. What's so hard to understand?

What's difficult to understand is the entitlement.

I just went through the whole of Legion as a Paladin with a dumb Collosus judgment window. You didn't see me cry about it on the forums. There is always specs that could be better, but if we witheld expansion releases for it, we would still be in Vanilla.
Stop thinking you are the universe's priority, you are not. Not the first, nor in a unique situation. If it only happened to you now, you are very lucky.

Play what you enjoy. If you don't enjoy the state of shadow, play something else until you do. What's not ok is to say that the expansion should be witheld until they are finished, because that will never be. Besides, the whole thing is your interpretation. The specs are far from unplayable. You gotta wait a patch? Cry me a river.

[Kazlofski]

Keep playing the class you played before, aka your main. Problem solved.

[Deleted]

I can't c a reason to hold up the entire expansion for a few specs. Just play ur current main, y do u need to switch? Or make a decision based on what u know now it's not that hard.

I don't understand why they not just leave classes as is but rather butcher them some more and leave it like that for weeks

[Deleted]

Happens every x-pac. Classes go through changes. Some are clunky at launch. Not sure why it seems like such a surprise.

No it doesn't, Classes release in previous expansions in a poor state by the players point of view, but were of a good quality in blizzards eyes. This is the first ever time that blizzard has openly stated and accepted that they are releasing an expansion with classes that are broken.

We are paying more money for expansions, they have a bigger dev team now, where is the results of this?

What's difficult to understand is the entitlement.
Play what you enjoy. If you don't enjoy the state of shadow, play something else until you do. What's not ok is to say that the expansion should be witheld until they are finished, because that will never be. Besides, the whole thing is your interpretation. The specs are far from unplayable. You gotta wait a patch? Cry me a river.

Ok then i guess you would be up for everyone getting a total reset of progress of your rep gains, gear, pvp etc once patch 8.1 hits just like everyone who has to play another class until their actual class gets fixed will do?
Yeah didn't think so.
The 'entitlement' is from people who have this "my class is fine so i dont give a fuck if yours is broken" attitude, not from people who want a working finished product that they paid for or are going to pay for.
It's kinda like path of exile giving people who play witch scion duelist and ranger a 2 week headstart in a league before marauders, shadows and templars are even allowed to enter, except in wows case you don't get to give the stuff you earned to your actual main.

The entire concept of not releasing a product until it is 100% ready to be released is the number one golden rule of blizzard and is the entire foundation of how blizzard built their reputation since their inception. That entire decades old philosophy has been undermined with their attitude to BFA.

[Deleted]

No it doesn't, Classes release in previous expansions in a poor state by the players point of view, but were of a good quality in blizzards eyes. This is the first ever time that blizzard has openly stated and accepted that they are releasing an expansion with classes that are broken.

We are paying more money for expansions, they have a bigger dev team now, where is the results of this?



Ok then i guess you would be up for everyone getting a total reset of progress of your rep gains, gear, pvp etc once patch 8.1 hits just like everyone who has to play another class until their actual class gets fixed will do?
Yeah didn't think so.
The 'entitlement' is from people who have this "my class is fine so i dont give a fuck if yours is broken" attitude, not from people who want a working finished product that they paid for or are going to pay for.
It's kinda like path of exile giving people who play witch scion duelist and ranger a 2 week headstart in a league before marauders, shadows and templars are even allowed to enter, except in wows case you don't get to give the stuff you earned to your actual main.

The entire concept of not releasing a product until it is 100% ready to be released is the number one golden rule of blizzard and is the entire foundation of how blizzard built their reputation since their inception. That entire decades old philosophy has been undermined with their attitude to BFA.

Stop the drama. I play 10 different classes sporadically. Maybe you should expand your horizons. It's not all about you.

And you know, my main was paladin for Legion. I had to deal with the terrible Colossus judgement. I endured a whole expansion. I'm sure you can survive a patch.

And again, classes will NEVER be 100% complete. It's an iterative game, an MMO. It's not a one time release. It's never finished. The content itself is finished. That is what your 100% pertains to.

[Nfinitii]

I don't understand why they not just leave classes as is but rather butcher them some more and leave it like that for weeks

They have always changed classes to some degree, probably b/c they r afraid players will get too bored if there arnt some changes.

[AltMethods]

The new survival '''rework''' is so blatantly unfinished, I'm shocked it's going live in it's current state

[Magistrate]

I think a big reason for major tuning happening in x.1 patches is because they simply don't get enough high capacity, quality participation in alphas/betas to see how specs will really function with all the variables and player mentalities in live situations with millions participating in all forms of content day in and day out.

The people that play betas the most are often pretty highly skilled players--they're often the most invested/devoted fans and also want to learn all the tricks and fights before they're live, so you have high skillcap players representing the bulk of numbers Blizzard probably receives, which gives a very different data story than that of millions of players of all skillcaps and content interests.

(Conversely, there are some obvious cases where people are very vocal about specific issues and they don't get addressed before live, but I think that may also be due to the sheer list of other issues that need to be met before a launch, and sometimes perfect is the enemy of good.)

*shrug* I'm fine with that. In a perfect world, yes, it would be nice for everything to be perfectly balanced.

I play what I play because I enjoy it, not because it's always bleeding edge.

[Armourboy]

I think a big reason for major tuning happening in x.1 patches is because they simply don't get enough high capacity, quality participation in alphas/betas to see how specs will really function with all the variables and player mentalities in live situations with millions participating in all forms of content day in and day out.

The people that play betas the most are often pretty highly skilled players--they're often the most invested/devoted fans and also want to learn all the tricks and fights before they're live, so you have high skillcap players representing the bulk of numbers Blizzard probably receives, which gives a very different data story than that of millions of players of all skillcaps and content interests.

(Conversely, there are some obvious cases where people are very vocal about specific issues and they don't get addressed before live, but I think that may also be due to the sheer list of other issues that need to be met before a launch, and sometimes perfect is the enemy of good.)

*shrug* I'm fine with that. In a perfect world, yes, it would be nice for everything to be perfectly balanced.

I play what I play because I enjoy it, not because it's always bleeding edge.

Why do people continually feel the need to make excuses for them? They invite a rather large and varying type of player to alpha/beta according to them. I for one aren't a raider and was in and and had many of the same feelings on classes that those who do raid did as well. In fact I had barely had time to play and test before they came out and said they were done with classes and considering that was mainly what I was there for I stopped testing. Shortly after they started making changes, so if lots of testers were like me, they have no one but themselves to blame for not getting lots of participation in this beta.

The fact is for BfA we know exactly why they are waiting til 8.1, they told us. They waited to long to start and just flat ran out of time.

[Deleted]

They have always changed classes to some degree, probably b/c they r afraid players will get too bored if there arnt some changes.

Ah yes I understand that completely but If that's the case I would be more afraid some people might feel completly left out as their class did stay the same or maybe even lost something while others got their reworks already.

Might as well keep them all the same and do all those rework plans at once in 8.1 like they gonna do now too.

[Deleted]

I think a big reason for major tuning happening in x.1 patches is because they simply don't get enough high capacity, quality participation in alphas/betas to see how specs will really function with all the variables and player mentalities in live situations with millions participating in all forms of content day in and day out.

The people that play betas the most are often pretty highly skilled players--they're often the most invested/devoted fans and also want to learn all the tricks and fights before they're live, so you have high skillcap players representing the bulk of numbers Blizzard probably receives, which gives a very different data story than that of millions of players of all skillcaps and content interests.

(Conversely, there are some obvious cases where people are very vocal about specific issues and they don't get addressed before live, but I think that may also be due to the sheer list of other issues that need to be met before a launch, and sometimes perfect is the enemy of good.)

*shrug* I'm fine with that. In a perfect world, yes, it would be nice for everything to be perfectly balanced.

I play what I play because I enjoy it, not because it's always bleeding edge.

No, it´s because the release date for BfA was rushed. The information is right there, just do some research.

[Nfinitii]

Ah yes I understand that completely but If that's the case I would be more afraid some people might feel completly left out as their class did stay the same or maybe even lost something while others got their reworks already.

Might as well keep them all the same and do all those rework plans at once in 8.1 like they gonna do now too.

Honestly I'd rather them get classes to a good spot and leave them alone and use gear to spice up gameplay. Like I haven't played hunter since wotlk, Ive been looking at lvling one as an alt and I don't even know what I'm looking at.

They might as well roll out any changes that r done than to wait and roll them all out at once, u want as few as classses feeling bad as possible. Sucks that some have to wait till 8.1 but I can't c them pushing the expansion back for a few classes. But it is blizzards fault, trying to roll out legion classes minus the artifact w/ no changes. I'm not really a fan of their new classes design where the baseline spec is incomplete w/o talents, artifact weapon and gear. I really feel like the specs should feel complete and talents and gear enhance and tweak the spec.

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I think a big reason for major tuning happening in x.1 patches is because they simply don't get enough high capacity, quality participation in alphas/betas to see how specs will really function with all the variables and player mentalities in live situations with millions participating in all forms of content day in and day out.

The people that play betas the most are often pretty highly skilled players--they're often the most invested/devoted fans and also want to learn all the tricks and fights before they're live, so you have high skillcap players representing the bulk of numbers Blizzard probably receives, which gives a very different data story than that of millions of players of all skillcaps and content interests.

(Conversely, there are some obvious cases where people are very vocal about specific issues and they don't get addressed before live, but I think that may also be due to the sheer list of other issues that need to be met before a launch, and sometimes perfect is the enemy of good.)

*shrug* I'm fine with that. In a perfect world, yes, it would be nice for everything to be perfectly balanced.

I play what I play because I enjoy it, not because it's always bleeding edge.

Blizzard has their own team to test things, there were plenty of ppl saying a lot of the classes felt incomplete at the beginning of alpha. And the azerite system wasn't added till later so players didn't know how much of an impact it would have on gameplay. Blizzard is good at what they do but they dropped the ball on class design. Which now they r trying to make up for.

[Direpenguin]

I hope you are aware that developers, especially the ones on the class teams, are not to blame for when expansions and patches launch. They're only able to do so much in the time frame they are given that is set by the marketing teams and producers of the studio.

No class is going to be beyond broken. Maybe not all specs are going to be exactly what you're looking for, but if it's your main, you'll stick with it until some tweaks come along or you'll play something else and like that more.

Geesh, everyone wants everything right now.

Yeah, the nerve of people expecting this type of thing to be finished BEFORE release. Name one other thing you'd buy that wasn't finished. Would you buy/occupy a new home if... let's say... the windows weren't installed yet? How about a car without an interior? Shoes without the soles? But nope, when it's Blizzard, you'll not only purchase their product, but also lotion up your hands to make sure you give them a nice handjob on top of it!

[Deleted]

I think a big reason for major tuning happening in x.1 patches is because they simply don't get enough high capacity, quality participation in alphas/betas to see how specs will really function with all the variables and player mentalities in live situations with millions participating in all forms of content day in and day out.

The people that play betas the most are often pretty highly skilled players--they're often the most invested/devoted fans and also want to learn all the tricks and fights before they're live, so you have high skillcap players representing the bulk of numbers Blizzard probably receives, which gives a very different data story than that of millions of players of all skillcaps and content interests.

(Conversely, there are some obvious cases where people are very vocal about specific issues and they don't get addressed before live, but I think that may also be due to the sheer list of other issues that need to be met before a launch, and sometimes perfect is the enemy of good.)

*shrug* I'm fine with that. In a perfect world, yes, it would be nice for everything to be perfectly balanced.

I play what I play because I enjoy it, not because it's always bleeding edge.

I think in other expansions this might have applied, not this time though.

They set themselves an initially ambitious window to release BfA then set the date early on as to be a very, very ambitious launch date.

I get that people want expansions turned around faster but I think WoD and (big If here) BfA are the consequence, rushed experiences, released too early with content missing and weeks at problems that won't get solved. Hopefully BfA will be different and we don't get another Wow, where they have up half way through and used that development time to work on Legion (which paid off imo).

Whether they have some sort of workflow problem, a sechudling conflict or something else I really think that stuff being pushed back to 8.1 is a consequence of them setting a target they were never going to meet.

[jarvii]

This is why I hope they don't add anymore classes or specs, its just not manageable for them.

[Mafic]

I think a big reason for major tuning happening in x.1 patches is because they simply don't get enough high capacity, quality participation in alphas/betas to see how specs will really function with all the variables and player mentalities in live situations with millions participating in all forms of content day in and day out.

The people that play betas the most are often pretty highly skilled players--they're often the most invested/devoted fans and also want to learn all the tricks and fights before they're live, so you have high skillcap players representing the bulk of numbers Blizzard probably receives, which gives a very different data story than that of millions of players of all skillcaps and content interests.

(Conversely, there are some obvious cases where people are very vocal about specific issues and they don't get addressed before live, but I think that may also be due to the sheer list of other issues that need to be met before a launch, and sometimes perfect is the enemy of good.)

*shrug* I'm fine with that. In a perfect world, yes, it would be nice for everything to be perfectly balanced.

I play what I play because I enjoy it, not because it's always bleeding edge.

Interesting theory but we have known class design was empty for BFA back in January of 2018. It is just that Blizz didn't make class design a top priority till late in the beta cycle (eg last month).

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are Shaman fine right now?

Define "fine" haha because some players will be okay and others will be saddened.

[rrayy]

Yeah, the nerve of people expecting this type of thing to be finished BEFORE release. Name one other thing you'd buy that wasn't finished. Would you buy/occupy a new home if... let's say... the windows weren't installed yet? How about a car without an interior? Shoes without the soles? But nope, when it's Blizzard, you'll not only purchase their product, but also lotion up your hands to make sure you give them a nice hand job on top of it!

People do buy homes before they are built, you know? Also, software is in no way like those animate objects. So, lets use an actual apples to apples comparison. You are aware that Microsoft sends most of it's products out that are unfinished right? You are aware that When the new version of Windows comes out it is unfinished right? No software product gets released completely finished. IT is beyond rare for a software product to come out and not have bugs in them at all. OF course, one would have to be objective about things and not pushing a "Everything Blizzard foes is wrong" agenda to see this.