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  1. #1
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    Re-implementation of some classic dungeons

    Lots of dungeons were retooled for Cataclysm and that's fine.

    But why can't we play the original versions anymore? I know I know, they're making classic servers a thing, but to me it's weird that you can't get to the old versions of those dungeons on live.

    Why don't they just add a Bronze Dragonflight member that can 'roll back time' outside of those old dungeons? It'd be the same type of implementation as current Bronze Dragonflight phasing (Silithus, Blasted Lands etc); you talk to them near the portal, they set the time back, you run in the dungeon portal as per usual, but this time you're in the old dungeon.

    It's not *for* anything major, it just lets people collect some transmog and enjoy the nostalgia. They don't necessarily have to be listed on random dungeon queue either. In theory, they could always use this sort of technology to let people do the original Naxx/Onyxia too, actual raid content that got removed when it got reinvented.

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sollioswoop View Post
    Lots of dungeons were retooled for Cataclysm and that's fine.

    But why can't we play the original versions anymore? I know I know, they're making classic servers a thing, but to me it's weird that you can't get to the old versions of those dungeons on live.

    Why don't they just add a Bronze Dragonflight member that can 'roll back time' outside of those old dungeons? It'd be the same type of implementation as current Bronze Dragonflight phasing (Silithus, Blasted Lands etc); you talk to them near the portal, they set the time back, you run in the dungeon portal as per usual, but this time you're in the old dungeon.

    It's not *for* anything major, it just lets people collect some transmog and enjoy the nostalgia. They don't necessarily have to be listed on random dungeon queue either. In theory, they could always use this sort of technology to let people do the original Naxx/Onyxia too, actual raid content that got removed when it got reinvented.
    Agree 100%

  3. #3
    Immortal Nikkaszal's Avatar
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    You're getting Classic servers for your nostalgia fix.

    Meanwhile, the main game presses forward, not backwards
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  4. #4
    I can see scholomance being a issue... that place had a lot of concepts and gizmos that could break. Never mind things like magic immune mobs.

    Deadmines and strathom wouldn't be so hard to do. At this point though each one would be a rebuild.

  5. #5
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    no thanks, i give old sholo/wailing caverns a hard pass
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    Crabs have been removed from the game... because if I see another one I’m just going to totally lose it. *sobbing* I’m sorry, I just can’t right now... I just... OK just give me a minute, I’ll be OK..

  6. #6
    I'm guessing that is what Classic servers will be for.

    Nonetheless, the only dungeon that actually needs to be fixed is Sunken Temple. Which was a very lazy revamp. I get that this was a very lengthy, trash intensive dungeon but all they did was cut off the top half of it. It definitely kills the ambiance / story-telling of the dungeon.

  7. #7
    Sunken Temple was literally just cut down to it's final portion, so I'd like to see the whole thing genuinely redone

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Khaza-R View Post
    I'm guessing that is what Classic servers will be for.

    Nonetheless, the only dungeon that actually needs to be fixed is Sunken Temple. Which was a very lazy revamp. I get that this was a very lengthy, trash intensive dungeon but all they did was cut off the top half of it. It definitely kills the ambiance / story-telling of the dungeon.
    Scholo was changed quite a bit too, huge amounts of rooms taken out and no longer used, not to mention the number of bosses was greatly reduced.

  9. #9
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    Mostly for lore reasons. The events of the old Deadmines are already said and done and the bronze dragons probably don't want to send adventurers back to do something that might mess up the current timeline.

    Other, more realistic issues are that there are some major glitch areas as well as lost item ID's that if acquired today may cause some major havoc within the community should they either resurface or become disenchanted (The disenchant materials no longer exist). Another reason is that they don't want people leveling characters to have a choice between the two dungeons as one could be easier yet drop comparable gear. You may think this is a stupid reason but I can imagine a few people being very vocal about it.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Khaza-R View Post
    I'm guessing that is what Classic servers will be for.

    Nonetheless, the only dungeon that actually needs to be fixed is Sunken Temple. Which was a very lazy revamp. I get that this was a very lengthy, trash intensive dungeon but all they did was cut off the top half of it. It definitely kills the ambiance / story-telling of the dungeon.
    So, as far as we know, there won't be transmog etc on Classic. This means those items are still unobtainable for Live servers, unless they somehow integrate it so that you can unlock, but not use on Classic, transmog appearances. It's doable, I'd imagine, but I can't see Blizzard putting that in very readily; if for nothing else, it'd receive backlash if you had to have a 2nd subscription (which we're assuming is the case, I don't know if it's been confirmed) to unlock stuff in the game.


    Quote Originally Posted by Nutrition View Post
    I can see scholomance being a issue... that place had a lot of concepts and gizmos that could break. Never mind things like magic immune mobs.

    Deadmines and strathom wouldn't be so hard to do. At this point though each one would be a rebuild.
    So I guess the other thing you could consider, is just having the Bronze Dragonflight NPC appear when the content is no longer level appropriate. You know, at level 85 or whatever, they start appearing - after they would have been canonically introduced to the player within the game.

    Quote Originally Posted by Smoe View Post
    Other, more realistic issues are that there are some major glitch areas as well as lost item ID's that if acquired today may cause some major havoc within the community should they either resurface or become disenchanted (The disenchant materials no longer exist). Another reason is that they don't want people leveling characters to have a choice between the two dungeons as one could be easier yet drop comparable gear. You may think this is a stupid reason but I can imagine a few people being very vocal about it.
    So this one has me curious; what did they do with the IDs when they launched Cataclysm? Surely the items would remain in the database, and they wouldn't do something as stupid as to completely overwrite IDs?

    Lorewise, you could always swing it the other way. There are now problems with the old version of deadmines thanks to alternate universes and whatnot, and adventurers need to fix it.

    As for easier or not, I'm hard pressed to believe people would bother to do these outside of transmog/fun runs. This means running to the dungeon, and dungeon finder is definitely a faster method even if the dungeon is easier. Hell, Dungeon Finder is the only reason I still suffer through Dire Maul/Mara. At best, people doing the old version when it's level appropriate would be incidental.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Armourboy View Post
    Scholo was changed quite a bit too, huge amounts of rooms taken out and no longer used, not to mention the number of bosses was greatly reduced.
    I get that but Scholo at least has updated mechanics and a new story. People might want the old version for nostalgia or transmog but the live version doesn’t need to be fixed. ST is entirely the same outdated mechanics and a butchered layout with only 1/3 of a he original dungeon being accessible.

    This expansion would have been a great time to update ST with the blood troll story arc

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sollioswoop View Post
    So, as far as we know, there won't be transmog etc on Classic. This means those items are still unobtainable for Live servers, unless they somehow integrate it so that you can unlock, but not use on Classic, transmog appearances. It's doable, I'd imagine, but I can't see Blizzard putting that in very readily; if for nothing else, it'd receive backlash if you had to have a 2nd subscription (which we're assuming is the case, I don't know if it's been confirmed) to unlock stuff in the game.




    So I guess the other thing you could consider, is just having the Bronze Dragonflight NPC appear when the content is no longer level appropriate. You know, at level 85 or whatever, they start appearing - after they would have been canonically introduced to the player within the game.



    So this one has me curious; what did they do with the IDs when they launched Cataclysm? Surely the items would remain in the database, and they wouldn't do something as stupid as to completely overwrite IDs?

    Lorewise, you could always swing it the other way. There are now problems with the old version of deadmines thanks to alternate universes and whatnot, and adventurers need to fix it.

    As for easier or not, I'm hard pressed to believe people would bother to do these outside of transmog/fun runs. This means running to the dungeon, and dungeon finder is definitely a faster method even if the dungeon is easier. Hell, Dungeon Finder is the only reason I still suffer through Dire Maul/Mara. At best, people doing the old version when it's level appropriate would be incidental.
    Most items were revamped but there were some that were made completely unavailable that aren't revamped (And are still in the database). The way that many items were made back then didn't account for higher levels for example you could pick up dust off the Dust Devils in Vanilla Westfall that would function as an instant tranq shot on other players all the way up to level 60 and possibly beyond. This is the reason a lot of old world items were revamped/removed because they would be extremely op these days (Thistle Tea) comes to mind. Some of these items are still in game but are relatively unknown such as a potion that will remove curses that Warlocks used to use to dispel Kanrethad's curse of Doom and trivialize the fight back when it was hard.

    Blizzard had a long history of dealing with these old items ever since players outgrew the level they were meant to be used. This is the main reason instances disable engineering items such as the rocket boots and the parachute. The latest these issues are using old legendries in timewalkers and gaming the Chromie scenario with WoD items. I'm pretty sure Blizz is sick of it, but there's really no end in sight. So long as they continue developing, players will find creative ways to use the mechanics in their favor.

    Bottom line is Blizzard likely doesn't want to take the risk of making things worse in the broken old items trivializing recent content department. They could absolutely update the items but it would take a lot of extra resources that could otherwise be used to make a quest chain or something in their next content patch.

  13. #13
    ST became much better in the new version. They have removed the useless basement and the boring upper gallery, leaving all the dungeon bosses in.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Sollioswoop View Post
    they're making classic servers a thing
    That's enough for me. Yes I agree the old dungeons had a certain charm to them. That's why they'll be playable again on the classic servers.

    Though if they wanted to implement your idea, I'd say making that be "timewalking: vanilla" events would be the best way to go about it. Rewarding more timewalking tokens though, because good grief those things were long.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Powerogue View Post
    That's enough for me. Yes I agree the old dungeons had a certain charm to them. That's why they'll be playable again on the classic servers.

    Though if they wanted to implement your idea, I'd say making that be "timewalking: vanilla" events would be the best way to go about it. Rewarding more timewalking tokens though, because good grief those things were long.
    Actually, this could be pretty cool, especially if they brought back some of the old raids too.

  16. #16
    I like the idea. I'd be really interested in seeing the old Shadowfang Keep and Deadmines.
    I'd also like if you could visit the actual vanilla zones in the live game, but that's unlikely to ever happen because of the classic servers.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nikkaszal View Post
    Meanwhile, the main game presses forward, not backwards
    I don't think the OP wants the more recent versions of these dungeons replaced by the old ones. Just being able to visit the old dungeons wouldn't really be a step backwards in my opinion.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leodok View Post
    I like the idea. I'd be really interested in seeing the old Shadowfang Keep and Deadmines.
    I'd also like if you could visit the actual vanilla zones in the live game, but that's unlikely to ever happen because of the classic servers.

    I don't think the OP wants the more recent versions of these dungeons replaced by the old ones. Just being able to visit the old dungeons wouldn't really be a step backwards in my opinion.
    Yeah, it's not to replace the new ones by any means. I don't think you'd ever get the vanilla zones back, they're pretty easy to exploit and break. I think the vanilla zones themselves is definitely a thing for classic, and not so much for the current game.

    From what I understand, WoW Classic is being remade from the ground up in a lot of ways, and one of those ways I'd guess is checking all of the instancing works correctly. If they're running on the same/similar infrastructure, it should be a lot easier to reintroduce them into the game.

  18. #18
    Old God Soon-TM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nikkaszal View Post
    You're getting Classic servers for your nostalgia fix.

    Meanwhile, the main game presses forward, not backwards
    Implying that new is always better no matter what.

    OT: It would be nice to have them restored in a hypothethical revamp of the old world after B4A.

  19. #19
    Immortal Nikkaszal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soon-TM View Post
    Implying that new is always better no matter what.
    Nowhere at all in my post did I say that. Way to put words in someone's mouth.

    You're getting Classic servers. That will include the oldschool dungeons. Why would the Live team devote resources towards digging up the past to showcase it in Live as well? The updates have happened and the story has moved on.
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  20. #20
    In Destiny, no mission (quests) or strike (dungeons) was ever made obsolete. They did not reward the same as modern missions, but they scaled, and they could be made harder with modifiers. It helped alleviate static rotations and kept the content relevant. With Blizzard taking a level scaling approach to everything, it stands to reason that they could (and IMO should) make same-level scaled versions of each dungeon and raid available. It would be good for nostalgia, being able to run them with a modicum of appropriate challenge, and could give some pithy amount of reward, gold and AP, to incentivize running them without making it mandatory.
    Last edited by Rustov; 2018-07-08 at 10:51 PM.

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