Germany to back reducing tariffs on US cars

[Hardwing]

As German myself, I can`t but agree that the tariffs should be equalized between the USA and the EU. It is one thing to say the tarriffs were agreed on together with a more complex set of agreements, but I understand why American workers feel pissed off by them. USA and EU are economic zones of equal quality(ignoring the europeans slept through the newest technical revolution of Amazon, Google, Apple, etc.), so there should be little tariffs needed between them.

Please let Trump turn to agriculture aids next, so the EU slashes them for sectors which have more potential.

[breadisfunny]

So the US putting a 10% tariff on German cars would be fair then.

And nobody believes US cars aren't safe, the EU established those safety rules to block US cars from the EU market. The US has some of the most stringent car safety regulations around.

no they just made them so you can post bullshit theories as to why they have those laws so everyone can laugh at you.

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America Doesn’t Need Trade Like Other Nations Do


Donald Trump may have an upper hand in trade talks because America needs its partners less than any other advanced economy.

The Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development says the U.S. has the most limited ties to foreign commerce of any country in the group, using new measures that look at both trade and investment flows.


OECD
One such broader measure showed the “international orientation’’ of the U.S. was equal to 13 percent of gross domestic product in 2014, according to OECD figures tallied up last month. It's the first time the Paris-based group has calculated such a measure to track national income that is tied to both exports and profits made by the foreign affiliates of domestic companies.

And when it comes to Trump's threat to take on Mexico, such figures may strengthen his hand even further. Another wider trade measurement pushes Mexico further down the rankings of U.S. partners, leaving it behind Japan, the U.K. and Germany in sixth place. That’s worse than Mexico’s 2014 positions of second place for exports and third place for imports.


OECD
One complication is the U.S. is negotiating with Canada as well as Mexico under the North American Free Trade agreement, which Trump has threatened to rip up. Trump has moved between suggesting he only needs tweaks from Canada to escalating tensions over dairy and aircraft markets. The fresher OECD data shows Canada is a harder trade partner to break up with, coming in with the No. 2 ranking in overall trade after China.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...her-nations-do


Our economy is pretty insular. You can see this in action historically where the rest of the world's economies are in the shitter but the US economy keeps chugging along.

I'd go out of my way not to piss the American public off if I were a foreign power.

why are you reposting that garbage that got debunked several weeks ago. JUST STOP ALREADY.
also LOL exactly why should the rest of the world be scared of the u.s. hubcap?

[Machismo]

Thank you for admitting that taxing people is somehow stealing. I can take every other comment you make with a giant grain of salt.

Well, you are very much wrong. I do enjoy you being wrong. It's awesome.

[Machismo]

If you read through his post history, you might think otherwise.

Cheers.

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Make up your mind then. If taxation isn't theft to you then you are not a libertarian. That concept is at the core of their belief. But you already knew that right?

Man, you really do need to figure these accusations out. You were wrong, you admitted it... time for you to walk away.

[Machismo]

Stop dodging the question then. Is taxation theft? It's a yes or no question.

As I have been saying, when you back up the claim you made a month ago, then I will gladly ask your question.

Tick-Tock...

[Elegiac]

Stop dodging the question then. Is taxation theft? It's a yes or no question.

No, and anyone that believes taxes are theft is an abject idiot.

[Talon8669]

well, these tariff have been imposed by Trump, there is no denying it. The consequences are his, and his alone, this is his doing.

Actually the consequences are world wide.

[Breccia]

Why put tariffs on shitty cars

Yeah, see, to me, the obvious answer is "maybe the US should make better cars". That sounds like something having more scientists and engineers would help with.

I drive a Honda.

[Vash The Stampede]

BMW X5 from 2010? Where was it made? Greer, South Carolina or imported from Russia?

No idea but we changed the starter today and fuck that thing. Removing the intake plenum was a pain, and we accidentally disconnected the CPS while trying to remove the intake, cause the wire was so short. It did start fine, until he drove it home and it wouldn't start again.

BMW quality my ass. God knows what is causing that thing to not start.

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your input is interesting but i don't understand where you going with it. To you, quality of a car depends on how easy or hard is it to fix it?

Neither, it shouldn't need fixing at all. I'm just saying both American and European cars break down, but fixing Euro cars are painful to do.

i understand that a car that is hard or requires specialize tool to diagnose and fix might be more expensive to maintain, but that shouldn't affect or say anything about car quality itself.

If I need a special tool to change the shock, then I will say lots of bad things. Literally, changing the air shocks on a Mercedes requires a special computer tool. The Corvette C5 I have I can access the error codes and everything from the dash. I don't even need a standard OBDII tool to troubleshoot the Corvette.

There's a reason why the resale value of a BMW or a Mercedes is so bad. Once those cars go beyond 100k miles, the problems start and the visits to the dealer become expensive.

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Yeah, see, to me, the obvious answer is "maybe the US should make better cars". That sounds like something having more scientists and engineers would help with.

I drive a Honda.

I'd drive a Tesla any day of the week over everything else, but those aren't cheap American cars.

[Forogil]

No idea but we changed the starter today and fuck that thing.

I see that you have no idea.

However, if you look you will realize that the BMW X5 were only made in the Spartanburg plant in Greer, South Carolina, US until they started making them in Russia in 2009 (and it seems unlikely that the Russian cars were exported to the US), so those are your only options. And who assembles a car matters for the quality of how it is put together.

So, an American car from a German brand; and 100,000 a year exported to China, until the new Chinese tariffs retaliating against Trump caused a problem for that.

[Vash The Stampede]

However, if you look you will realize that the BMW X5 were only made in the Spartanburg plant in Greer, South Carolina, US until they started making them in Russia in 2009 (and it seems unlikely that the Russian cars were exported to the US), so those are your only options. And who assembles a car matters for the quality of how it is put together.

The parts for the BMW were made in Germany, the assembly of the car was done in America. The is the same for Japanese cars as well. My Corvette has a surprisingly large amount of parts made in Germany and Canada. My old Saturn LS2 that I don't have anymore was mainly a European car that GM had brought over to the USA with a different shell. The 3.0 DOHC V6 was from Vauxhall and was assembled in the UK. The engines were sent to USA to be put in the Saturn cars.

Point is the place where the car was assembled does not determine quality, but place where the parts were assembled do dictate quality. Ford Mustangs had their transmissions built in China. Google the problems Mustang owners have with these Chinese transmissions. The main issue with American cars is that all too often the parts were made someplace like Mexico or China, cause they went cheap on materials and labor.

[Forogil]

The parts for the BMW were made in Germany, the assembly of the car was done in America.

How do you know that the parts were made in Germany if you didn't know where it was assembled? Some parts were likely made in Germany, but the broken ones?

Since BMW themselves claim to have a number of suppliers based in the SC area it's pretty clear that some parts are made locally.

The is the same for Japanese cars as well.

For some cars, but they do ship entire cars from Japan as well - and BMWs from US to China.

Point is the place where the car was assembled does not determine quality, but place where the parts were assembled do dictate quality.

Both matter (well, how well the work is made - not where it is made). Not just because bad assembly is a problem, but also because it is ideally possible to detect some bad parts during assembly. Quality control is a constant problem for car manufacturers.

[Slant]

I'm curious, are you a certified BMW mechatronic? How old is the car? Did you order the correct parts?

[Resurgo]

The free market works one way. The problem is it doesn't work both ways. EU has a tariff on our stuff, but we don't have a tariff on their stuff? Somethings not equal here.


As someone who's actually worked on cars I can tell you that European cars are generally not quality. Are American cars quality? LOLOLOL... no but there's a difference. When an American car breaks down it is generally easier to repair than European cars. Also, diagnosing a European car requires specialty tools that you only find at the dealer. So either pay the dealer, or buy the super expensive tool.

Speaking from experience, BMW's and Mercedes are NOT quality. At least not the new ones. I got a friend today who needs the starter changed on a BMW X5 2010 and that shit requires me to remove the intake plenum. That car of his is a gigantic mess of problems, with cars parts breaking down left and right. Worn out seal where the oil filter sits is pissing out oil. Coolant line broke off cause the plastic portion of the line got brittle from the engine heat and just flew off. Nearly all the spark plug coils are dying and need to be replaced.

Japanese cars though, much easier to deal with and cheaper to work on. Stuff hardly breaks, and nothing is over engineered for no reason. I speak from Toyota and Honda, who are probably the only Japanese cars I'd buy. Everything else is shit, especially Nissan with their CVT transmission problems. Fuck those cars.

Chevy for example is known for blown head gaskets, cause they used cheap head gaskets. Stretched timing chains, cause they used cheap timing chains. Ford engines just blow up at some point. F150 engines will keep running while eating oil and pissing coolant, but they will fail cause eventually Ford is Ford. Ford Escapes eat threw engines cause they're crap. I don't know what eats those engines, but they die around 80 thousand miles.

Much of what you say is mostly true, but I would hazard to say, overblown.

Last two cars I've had(still have) was a 2005 BMW X3 (drove for 190,000 miles traded in), and a 2011 BMW 328xi (150,000 miles, still have it).
Oil leak (oil filter housing gasket) is a common issue for the last couple decades, but it's pretty well known and not that big an issue. Since it's well known, just replace it at a certain interval and it's fine.
Never had issues with coolant lines, spark plugs on the 328 seemed to be an issue, but replacing them wasn't terribly expensive.
About the worst of the issues is when regular stuff gets worn, such as struts. Both cars likely need(ed) new struts around the same mileage mark (150kish) but that's not a quality issue so much as worn over time and use.

Yes, certain things are overengineered. (I will attest to the difference in changing an air filter, for example, on a Toyota/Honda which takes all of 2 minutes, vs changing the air filter in my 3 series which takes me more like a half hour or longer) however, I'll take the drive and "quality" of a European car over an American car any day of the week.

By comparison yes, if I wanted my vehicle to simply be a rolling appliance, I'll sooner buy a Toyota or Honda for the sheer quality.

[Felya]

By comparison yes, if I wanted my vehicle to simply be a rolling appliance, I'll sooner buy a Toyota or Honda for the sheer quality.

I drive a 1999 Hyundai Elantra... when I drive bye... all the chicks be like... damn dude, when was the last time you washed your car? Is that a bush growing on your front bumper?.... and I be like... yeah...

Nope, have not been broke for a very long time...

[Resurgo]

I drive a 1999 Hyundai Elantra... when I drive bye... all the chicks be like... damn dude, when was the last time you washed your car? Is that a bush growing on your front bumper?.... and I be like... yeah...

Nope, have not been broke for a very long time...

Just a matter of different tastes. The past couple BMW's I've driven have had little equal in terms of fun factor and driving feel.
For its time, the X3 was probably one of the most agile SUV's on the backroads. My guitarist drove a Jeep Liberty in comparison and had to ride in my X3 once for an emergency. The amount of hairpin turns I was making along side streets, made him blurt out that his Liberty would've flipped over 5 times along the way in comparison.

My 3 series isn't the fastest thing on the block, but when I can fly into corners at high rates of speeds without upsetting the chassis or feel unsafe, I'm having fun... also, given that it's an all wheel drive (I use snow tires in the winter) I'm probably the only person I've ever known to have been pulled over for speeding in the middle of a blizzard...

[Vash The Stampede]

How do you know that the parts were made in Germany if you didn't know where it was assembled? Some parts were likely made in Germany, but the broken ones?

Cause I freakin just took apart a BMW X5 today to try and help a friend out, and yes the parts say made in Germany. The starter, the relay, and the stupid intake. BTW, starter was bad but relay was good. The autozone rebuilt starter was also bad, as I just found out. I'm sure not every part was made in Germany, but I'd believe most of it was.

Both matter (well, how well the work is made - not where it is made). Not just because bad assembly is a problem, but also because it is ideally possible to detect some bad parts during assembly. Quality control is a constant problem for car manufacturers.

Tesla has a problem with their assembly where the fit and finish of the car tends to have gaps all over the body. That is when assembly matters. Detecting faulty parts also matters too, but this is something that tends to take time. The Corvette I have has had a faulty oil pressure sensor, that I replaced with a AC Delco brand. That sensor failed within a week. I had to buy an aftermarket to solve the problem, and the car isn't new and so is the problem. GM still hasn't solved this problem, though I'm sure Corvette models after the C5 received totally different part. The Lexus RX300 which my dad has is known to burn oil because of a poorly designed rear valve cover that will sludge up the PCV section. Engines made past 2004 will have newer valve covers that correct for this issue and it just so happens to be swapable for older cars, not that Lexus is going to swap the valve cover for you. GM though had known for years that the ignition system in their cars was faulty and did nothing. The same goes for their head gaskets and timing chains. Nothing was done to improve the quality of these parts, and fix the issue for people driving the faulty cars. At least not until it became public anyway.

Yes, certain things are overengineered. (I will attest to the difference in changing an air filter, for example, on a Toyota/Honda which takes all of 2 minutes, vs changing the air filter in my 3 series which takes me more like a half hour or longer) however, I'll take the drive and "quality" of a European car over an American car any day of the week.

By comparison yes, if I wanted my vehicle to simply be a rolling appliance, I'll sooner buy a Toyota or Honda for the sheer quality.

Some BMW's had two spark plugs per cylinder, which didn't seem to do anything other than increase the cost of a tune up. Some now have no dip sticks even for the oil, so good luck checking your oil. That's over engineering for no reason.

As for American cars I will say this, the reason they're shit is cause they're meant to be shit. Only in America do we have Lexus, Infiniti, and Acura as these brands are used the same way that GM has Cadillac and Ford has Lincoln. I think Europe is getting Lexus now here and there. American auto market has done a fine job separating quality cars so that if you don't buy from a quality brand you don't get a good car. Essentially if you buy a Ford or a Chevy you're buying throw away cars. Cars not meant to last beyond 100k miles.

Japan doesn't have Acura or Lexus, so when you buy these cars here in America you're essentially buying a rebranded Toyota or Honda. Hence all the cars have to have a certainly level of quality thanks to Japan not screwing around with branding. Europe though does have some brands that do screw around. Volkswagen makes Audi's and Porsche's and a few other brands as well. Here in USA I don't see that many VW's but I do see Audi's.

I think people are sick of shit cars and want their car to have all the luxury features that a luxury car has. GM and Ford failed to recognize this, with the exception of the Mustang and the Camaro. I think Chrysler survives entirely on the Dodge Challenger, cause I see those cars everywhere. When the auto market crashes again, which btw is real soon, I expect a lot of these luxury brands to disappear with some exceptions.

[Butler to Baby Sloths]

I know that in my country Ford is the most dominant american car but it's not the most popular. My father has Ford and I've got VW, both are 2004. Most cars here are German, Italian, French and Japanese and then you have Ford. Of course, you can see other brands but they are a minority.

Except those Fords are built in Belgium or Germany, not America.

[ABEEnr2]

Do many Europeans event want or buy American cars?

The Only cars Europeans would buy from America are tesla. All other cars are just meh.

[Deleted]

I'm all for the EU abolishing tariffs on US cars. No sane European is going to drive Chrysler, Dodge, Ford, Chevrolet, etc. when we have numerous European car brands that make much higher quality products.

European cars > Asian cars >>> American hunks of metal.

I'm extremely happy with my Audi and I would only consider a Volvo XC60 if I get a new one.