Does Blizzard still think personal loot should be forced in BFA for EVERYBODY?

[shaunika123]

They're probably trying to solve the incredible loot discrepancy between the roles, reduce the amount of master loot sales runs, mount sale runs, popularity contest loot systems, the pretend dps>tank>healer bullshit, and other undesirable things that cost them subs.

One thing to note is that personal loot drop rates are probably way up over what they are now. Only being able to get two coins per week lends a little credence to that. I'm not sure they'd have a game left after two months if it stayed at the same drop rate it is. I'm averaging one item every 10-13 bosses in heroic with a 5-7 coin spread between non-ap.

you know that PL sale runs are way more lucrative than ML already right? we stopped doing ML boost runs the minute legion started, you make way more money with PL.
and you can trade mounts.

[stross01]

high command wasnt removed when that happened.
and noone was cheesing it on first kills.
and again, by that standard we could remove any boss from allstars since all of them are being cheesed one way or another there really isnt much to say about that.



again, if you look at a sample of one you wont find consistent statistics

like shauni has a grey kingaroth cos madve jumped on his head with DFA nad exploded a bomb on him so he died.

and again, you realisitically wont pull good logs on later bosses since by the time you kill it for the first time dozens of guilds have been killing it for weeks.

it's pretty easy to see that most of them the first 5-7(which were first week kills) are purple and then it gets a bit worse every time.
especially for rogues who are mechanic bots on later fights.

Everyone in this world was cheesing on first kills. Progression is kill 1, not kill 2 or 3 or 4 or 5 or 6 or 7. 1.

I see that you're opinion is rock solid, but it is FUNDAMENTALLY WRONG.
I haven't got the necessary time/energy to convince you, but you are wrong on so many levels I could write a good phd dissertation about it.

Great input, but I'll remain right. Thanks.

[Xath]

yes - so deal with it

this is literaly the best change that happend to the game

and only ones against it are those who abused others

This is literally the dumbest change ever because you couldn't abuse it. You couldn't use it in non guild groups and guilds that "abused" it would die and never make significant progression because nobody with any skill is going to stay and gear up the officer's GF before getting gear.

- - - Updated - - -

With ML I seen way too often officers funneling loot to themselves and their friends and I have horrible luck with personal loot so doesn't change much. Will be nice to never see ninja looters in pugs ever again though atleast.

You mean that has literally not been possible in legion because you need over 80% guild to use master looter?

- - - Updated - - -

I had been with them for about a year and was loyal to the guild. Take your snark and suck it will you? Besides, a few months afterwards I went on a break and when I came back the guild was dead.

That's kind of perfect for showing that ML abusing guilds die isn't it?

[stross01]

you know that PL loot runs are way more lucrative than ML already right? we stopped doing ML boost runs the minute legion started, you make way more money with PL.
and you can trade mounts.

Yeah, overall they are wayyyyyyy WAYYYYY more lucrative for the guild, but not for the player, unless you've got overlapping loot pools. I've had the opposite experience with ML sales, however. Nobody is interested in paying millions of gold to leave with possibly nothing.

I was unable to trade my Argus mount with anyone after I received it.

- - - Updated - - -

This is literally the dumbest change ever because you couldn't abuse it. You couldn't use it in non guild groups and guilds that "abused" it would die and never make significant progression because nobody with any skill is going to stay and gear up the officer's GF before getting gear.

I wish this were true, but I know quite a few guilds that abuse it and just fill their raid slots with more turnovers.

[shaunika123]

Everyone in this world was cheesing on first kills. Progression is kill 1, not kill 2 or 3 or 4 or 5 or 6 or 7. 1.

yeah IM sure literally everyone was letting one person AOE the whole fight on firstkills, seems legit
anyway you havent a single clue what you're talking about so I'm done.

you're wrong you either realize it or you dont.

hopefully you'll get dicked by PL rng for 2 years.

[Xath]

They do for all the right reasons! Hail Blizzard!

The right reasons being they want to slow down progression and drag out content and they latched onto the people who totally got ninjaed from in legion pugs when you need 80% guild to even use master loot instead of saying that? It's very obvious that they are trying to extend the time they can drip items without pushing new content.

[ReVnX]

Azerite gear is tradable......

It is definitely and absolutely NOT

[Xath]

but you do deserve gear that is dropping since hour 0 you are in raid with them .

this is nothign else but a victim of bullying justifying why they were bullied.

this is why they are changing it so people dont victim shame themselves anymore.

- - - Updated - - -



it hasnt - if it did you wouldnt hear thousands of stories of people who got robbed out of loot by corrupted MLs

the only reason someone would claim that it worked well is if he/she was a part of abuse others system themselves

No you literally don't. The person who put in 300 to 400 attempts to kill the boss for the first time deserves gear over the trial who came in who could have not been there and the boss would still die. If you are actually in on progression in any decent guild you will get a fair shot at loot meaning whoever it's the biggest upgrade for will likely get it. If you are in on farm they are testing you to see if you are worth bringing to progression no need to waste gear if you aren't. Anyone who actually raids at a competitive level and doesn't just do lfr and maybe the occasional normal understands this.

- - - Updated - - -

That's like a multi millionaire winning the lottery, and then people start whining "But you don't need it, so give it to me instead!". If he's nice, he will give it away. But if he doesn't, that still does not make him toxic :P. Greedy? Sure. But not toxic!

Nope just makes him booted if he is in a guild.

- - - Updated - - -

I am sorry that you cannot ninja loot any more.

Ninja looting hasn't been a thing since legion because you need 80% guild to turn on master loot you would know this if you did more than lfr

- - - Updated - - -

I am not sad in the least to see that this mindset is a thing of the distant fucking past now.

If you're not top 1 to top 50, there's no reason to give gear to dps first. The only reason to give gear to dps over anyone else is to skip that last aoe before the phase push, to kill that add before x effect, or to beat the enrage timer. Chances are that if you're in the top 51-10,000, your problems aren't going to be solved through gearing your grey, green, blue parsing garbage first.

Ending progression with a 10-15 ilvl difference between your top and bottom ilvl raiders just because people think that if 'WE DO LIKE METHOD, WE BECOME MORE LIKE METHOD' is stupidity.

Also, going weeks, months without gear as a tank or healer fills a lot of people with an unsubscribable feeling. Why would anyone log on if that was the case? Oh yeah: they stop logging on.

Not going to miss 'I rolled a spec that doesn't have a sword icon by it, therefore I won't get gear', 'I pissed off someone on the loot council, therefore I won't get gear, or 'I rolled a spec that isn't fotm, therefore I won't get gear'.

- - - Updated - - -



If you don't gear your trials, you're holding your progression back.

I tank it's what I do as long as I have the effective health requirements and can keep aggro I couldn't care less about gear same with most heals I know as long as the raid stays up who cares.

Also unless your trials are in on progression no you aren't holding your guild back by not gearing them before they prove they are worthwhile players.

- - - Updated - - -

High Command was removed from the allstars and, to every observer that cares, shouldn't be counted. The same with Eonar and Aggramar.

Maybe you should look again, because most are not purple nor orange.

Are you not sorting by ilvl? Historical progression is showing multiple 100% parses for the mage on first kills for Immo and Argus most other fights besides Vari and AHC are purple or higher

[stross01]

yeah IM sure literally everyone was letting one person AOE the whole fight on firstkills, seems legit
anyway you havent a single clue what you're talking about so I'm done.

you're wrong you either realize it or you dont.

hopefully you'll get dicked by PL rng for 2 years.

Bye. Take the grey, green, and blue heroes with you.

- - - Updated - - -

Are you not sorting by ilvl? Historical progression is showing multiple 100% parses for the mage on first kills for Immo and Argus most other fights besides Vari and AHC are purple or higher

That was more a reference to the 'fringe spec'. You've got a great chance of ranking higher when the pool of players is 10% the size and the players playing that spec are likely knowingly lowering your raid dps through stupidity.

[digichi]

Yes, I liked the old system cause I never felt that ninja looting was some epidemic that plagued the game and got in the way of getting loot.. Its far more annoying when the 960 geared tank ques for LFR, smack talks the other tank and complains about baddies in LFR, and then gets 930 titanforged loot he doesn't need and straight up ignores you when you ask them nicely if they mind trading...

I don't like asking for loot because it feels like pestering, and I've been on the side of getting a bunch of whispers and feel like I have to suddenly play a mini raid lead role and get everyone to /roll, then make sure it's not a troll roll so it's fair. It's not as smooth as it could be.

[Kookster]

This discussion about PL and ML offers the most difference between dumb ppl and clever ppl. I love ppl complaining about funneling gear to officers or "more loved" raiders. I tell you something, THATS BECAUSE 1) you suck 2) you are not committed to the guild/community 3) you only spend 2x3 hours per week for the guild, while those hated officers acutally put in some effort to run this motherfucking guild.

Do you really think, with ppl like you, a guild could last longer than 1 raidcontent? some ppl put in the effort you can't even imagine. Way way way more then only 2x3 hours/week. So there is the point. Why should you get gear? you are the first one who leaves the sinking boat. It's that easy to understand. You will get your gear, but just after the loyal ones who stick to the guild longer than for the trial-phase.

Go and google "Employee stock ownership plan"!

[xxcloud417xx]

This discussion about PL and ML offers the most difference between dumb ppl and clever ppl. I love ppl complaining about funneling gear to officers or "more loved" raiders. I tell you something, THATS BECAUSE 1) you suck 2) you are not committed to the guild/community 3) you only spend 2x3 hours per week for the guild, while those hated officers acutally put in some effort to run this motherfucking guild.

Do you really think, with ppl like you, a guild could last longer than 1 raidcontent? some ppl put in the effort you can't even imagine. Way way way more then only 2x3 hours/week. So there is the point. Why should you get gear? you are the first one who leaves the sinking boat. It's that easy to understand. You will get your gear, but just after the loyal ones who stick to the guild longer than for the trial-phase.

Go and google "Employee stock ownership plan"!

Right? That's one thing I was going to bring up. We've been seeing the back and forth arguments about "corrupt officers" funneling loot to themselves and people getting passed over because of someone else being more "liked". Have you maybe just stopped and thought that maybe it's not a question of corruption and you not being in this inner-guild clique, but rather because YOU'RE actually the weakest fucking link in your guild and they don't expect that putting gear on you is going to be as much of a return on investment as giving it to someone who's just plain better than you at their job?

Stop blaming other people for not getting loot and get better, or if it actually is an unfair situation like you claim, then leave that guild. Either way, both of those situations are your own damn fault. DO something that isn't bitching and moaning to people who frankly don't care and are not in this situation because we made the choice not to be.

[Orwell7]

Everyone in this world was cheesing on first kills. Progression is kill 1, not kill 2 or 3 or 4 or 5 or 6 or 7. 1.



Great input, but I'll remain right. Thanks.

By right you mean someone from a top20 guild is getting "grey" parses somehow makes them bad players.
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/charact...on=1&boss=2082

Go on and criticize this.
You invalidated yourself a long time ago. Why bother? Why do you care to "make your point"?
Maybe you are a good player and can put consistently 99% logs. But who cares if you don't do it?
(hint, because I feel you need it: nobody cares)

[Deleted]

snip

To learn who is worthy replying to and who is never even close is an important lesson in this forum. You just replied to at least two people who are very well known to be avoided in discussions around here, mate. They are never worth of your time. Trust me on this or make the same mistake as many of us did ourselves ... or just ignore them already

[Deleted]

With ML I seen way too often officers funneling loot to themselves and their friends and I have horrible luck with personal loot so doesn't change much. Will be nice to never see ninja looters in pugs ever again though atleast.

ive seen that happend in a pug once. and once took a item for myself cause raid was bitching about that they should get in pug gorup i made. And ml is betetr for guils anyway you can give to who needs it the most, best for rpogress, heavy dmg on tanks for next fight gear up tanks and healers bit, dps check like bucthcer gea rup the dps.

[Tuhokoura]

It is stupid for people to think that they are somehow obligated to get someone else's loot, even if they don't need it. I hand out my excess loot but I totally understand why some people don't.

[Deleted]

I am sorry that you cannot ninja loot any more.

ML was in, bad guilds used for ninjaing, or bad pugs which you could leave at any moment ot join guild that ditn sue mL. but majority fo guilds actulyl used ML to help progress better. TO gear up what they need, heal heavy fight funnel more gear to healers, dps cehck we gear the dps, like that. If you had gear ninjaed adn stayed in group/guild it was your own fault
ANd since legion Ml wasnt aviable for pugs anyway.

Anyone who complains about not getting loot or ninjaing its their own fault for staying with bad groups.

[Kookster]

Boss dropped loot;

Anonymous1: Do you need?
Anonymous2: you neeed?
Anonymous3: NEEEDD???
Anonymous4: Can i have this? "new Item" is better then "old Item"

And on my screen plob op the trade Window. I put it in there, Accept. Deal done to Anonymous5!

Fair system they say, will get more gear they say.

[Carnedge]

I’ve been screwed over way more with master loot in guild than I have in pugs. I was playing the same spec as my raid leader and beating him on every fight. He eventually started out dpsing me by funneling every piece of gear to himself and basically starving me of gear.

I’m 100% for this change.

And before anyone says “find a new guild”, they were the top guild on the server and only Mythic guild and transferring servers is hit and miss and cost money. So no that’s not a simple solution. Paying cash to transfer just to find myself in the same situation is stupid. This fix fixes greediness.

[time0ut]

I suspect the primary reason for this change is simply that it significantly reduces Blizzard's support costs. They probably have stats that show it'll reduce the number of tickets opened by enough to make any potential backlash worthwhile.