Trump pardons Ranchers who set fires and started standoff

[GennGreymane]

Okay, a sentence is a decision. Same thing.

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The ability to cancel out a decision by a different branch is a check on that branch's power. The USA is premised on there being a reasonable balance between the three branches.

Except it really does not do that

The person is still considered guilty for the crime
The ruling will still be around
The law that ruling was based on is still around and will continue to be applied the same way.

Maybe you can go beyond the cookie cutter wikipedia entry in the second sentence and give some substance.

[Polyxo]

So now Democrats can frame the GOP as credibly pro-terrorism in midterms.

[zorkuus]

So now Democrats can frame the GOP as credibly pro-terrorism in midterms.

They would if they were republicans. Democrats are still stuck in the "let's play it nice" political game.

[PC2]

Except it really does not do that

The person is still considered guilty for the crime
The ruling will still be around
The law that ruling was based on is still around

Right, that is all important for the sake of record keeping.

[Edge-]

He's still using pardons to virtue signal to his base, I see.

[GennGreymane]

Right, that is all important for the sake of record keeping.

I guess I broke it.

[PC2]

I guess I broke it.

I agree with your points about a pardon not changing guilt and the ruling. A pardon is a forgiveness and not an erasure of the judicial work.

[GennGreymane]

I agree with your points about a pardon not changing guilt and the ruling. A pardon is a forgiveness and not an erasure of the judicial work.

Yup, I broke it.

[PC2]

Yup, I broke it.

Let me guess, you think I'm an AI?

[GennGreymane]

Let me guess, you think I'm an AI?

No.
/10chars

[Orbitus]

My understanding is that the Hammonds started control fires on their own property, which unintentionally spread to federal property, and were subsequently convicted of arson (which, normally would require an intent greater than negligence). Also vaguely recall there was something about their case being dismissed but then reinstated and sending them back to prison which, while not double jeopardy, has never been a "good look" per se.

In an entirely other transaction, the Bundys whom had their own beef with BLM raised the Hammonds case as a grievance when they seized the wildlife refuge, an act that ultimately led to a man's death (one of their own) and various prosecutions of variable success.

Embrace the power of "and"; the Hammonds may have been treated unjustly/excessively AND the Bundys have been wrong to take over a federal gift shop.

Or another way: if the point here by Trump was to vindicate and reward the Bundys, the pardons would have been for the Bundys, don't you suppose?

And that would be WRONG. They started fires to cover up their poaching.

This is from the local news organization. https://katu.com/news/local/criminal...son-conviction

You are wrong, AGAIN. The Bundys going to defend them was an act of terrorism that should have been dealt with HARSHLY

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The issue was that their punishment did not meet the minimum standards for sentencing, so they were given a harsher sentence.

I don't blame the Hammondss for the standoff, I blame the Bundy family and their inbred goon squad. Hell, the Hammonds were vocal about wanting it to end.

Personally, I think the Hammond family got a raw deal from BLM, but that in no way excused the actions by the Bundy fuckwads.

I will tell you what I told Stormdash, it wasn't because of a "controlled burn" that got out of hand, it was because the Hammonds were covering up their poaching of deer by setting a fire. https://katu.com/news/local/criminal...son-conviction The mandatory minimum sentence was 5 years for it, the judge was in the wrong for giving them a lighter sentence.

[PC2]

No.
/10chars

Okay good, because there are a lot of people who are paranoid about AI bots crawling the web.

[GennGreymane]

Okay good, because there are a lot of people who are paranoid about AI bots crawling the web.

I just think you are someone who tries too hard.

[Orbitus]

I agree this is a mistake. But you lose any credibility when you start your “illegitimate” bullshit. So much for the constitution you only seem to care about at random intervals.

He absolutely is illegitimate. The Senate Intel committee just issued that statement that makes him illegitimate.

[PC2]

I just think you are someone who tries too hard.

Nah you're projecting.

Let's get back to the topic on hand, pardons. Good idea, bad idea? Should they be abolished?

[GennGreymane]

Nah you're projecting.

Let's get back to the topic on hand, pardons. Good idea, bad idea? Should they be abolished?

Yeah, I'm not. You already failed at the discussion.

[Orbitus]

Nah you're projecting.

Let's get back to the topic on hand, pardons. Good idea, bad idea? Should they be abolished?

If the pardons are for good reason, let them be pardoned. This wasn't for good reason, these fuckers deserve MORE time in jail. Then the Bundys should have ALL been arrested and for terrorism.

[Echiyo]

Another symbolic pardon that both tosses red meat to his anti-government base as well as telling his followers that he will pardon anything if 'the government treated you unfairly' - a giant wink to his campaign staff under investigation by Mueller no doubt.

And so much for being the rule of law president. These men are guilty of arson and likely illegal poaching to boot. I guess laws don't apply to you if you're a right-winger boot licker in Trump world.

[PC2]

If the pardons are for good reason, let them be pardoned. This wasn't for good reason, these fuckers deserve MORE time in jail. Then the Bundys should have ALL been arrested and for terrorism.

The problem is there is no written code for pardoning that tells you right and wrong. Part of me thinks pardons should be abolished and the POTUS has too much power.

[cubby]

The problem is there is no written code for pardoning that tells you right and wrong. Part of me thinks pardons should be abolished and the POTUS has too much power.

Just one more of literally dozens of presidential powers that were fine until Cadet Bone Spurs was let in.

#deplorable45