[EU] Brexit negotiations at a standstill

[Mormolyce]

Curses! You are on to me!

Who said that?

[Kallisto]

Who said that?

He exists look at his location. Nederland as in Netherlands. He's just a dutch guy messing with us. :P

[Mormolyce]

He exists look at his location. Nederland as in Netherlands. He's just a dutch guy messing with us. :P

Oh my mistake.

[Mayhem]

Wait what, do they think Germany doesn't exist as in East and West are still around. Or that Germany is still the million and one kingdoms, dutchies etc with Prussia and Austria being the big boys and Bavaria being the biggest of the little boys?

Na, it's a conspiracy that West Germany and later all of Germany was illegally created after the end of WW2 by the Allied forces, because of something something Weimar Republic.

[Slant]

Wait what, do they think Germany doesn't exist as in East and West are still around. Or that Germany is still the million and one kingdoms, dutchies etc with Prussia and Austria being the big boys and Bavaria being the biggest of the little boys?

They think we're still nazi Germany, because West Germany was not properly founded and is a secret satelite state controlled by the US Government (or the allied forces UK, France and US, rather). Thus they delegitimize anything German authorities do, deny police any authority, don't pay taxes and so on and so forth. If confronted with German authority, they will clog the bureaucratic system with an endless stream of bullshit requests and letters with all kinds of crazy ideas.

Oh, and for some reasons, they're usually armed up to the teeth. Illegally, of course. But as part of the conspiracy theory and "prepper" fringe groups, they think they need to be able to defend themselves against the illegal German state. Dangerous bullshit if you ask me. Look it up, the term they coined for themselves is Reichsbürger.

[Mayhem]

They think we're still nazi Germany, because West Germany was not properly founded and is a secret satelite state controlled by the US Government (or the allied forces UK, France and US, rather). Thus they delegitimize anything German authorities do, deny police any authority, don't pay taxes and so on and so forth. If confronted with German authority, they will clog the bureaucratic system with an endless stream of bullshit requests and letters with all kinds of crazy ideas.

Oh, and for some reasons, they're usually armed up to the teeth. Illegally, of course. But as part of the conspiracy theory and "prepper" fringe groups, they think they need to be able to defend themselves against the illegal German state. Dangerous bullshit if you ask me. Look it up, the term they coined for themselves is Reichsbürger.

No no, not Nazi Germany, but the Weimar Republic... at least that's the one i've read, though as nothing makes sense anyway it could also be Nazi Germany, because why the fuck not.

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Wait . . .why don't you arrest them if they fail to pay taxes and have illegal weapons?

They get arrested all the time.

[Slant]

Wait . . .why don't you arrest them if they fail to pay taxes and have illegal weapons?

We do, once we learn of illegal weapon stashes. Last time we did that, a police officer died, because the dude shot through the door as soon as they knocked. And about paying taxes, Germany is the king of bureaucratic procedures. You can literally clog up the system for ages if you know what to do. Eventually, you will pay taxes of course, but that can take a long time. And being a fringe group, often they don't have much money to get anyway, so it's wasting everyone's time and money, really.

Luckily, this is still only a very small group of special idiots. But as we have seen recently in other countries, these seeds of idiocy tend to multiply in today's environment of bubbles and false information spread through the internet.

Our Reichsbürger are pretty similar to the US "freeman of the land" or whatever they call themselves. Look them up and see how they clog up the US judicial system. There's tons of videos of that. Ours work similarily. They have prepared speeches ripped off the internet, they refer to the right legislation to make it almost sound legal and unsettle new officers enough to make them doubt their right to exert state authority etc. They never get away with it, of course, but they cost the state a disproportional amount of resources.

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No no, not Nazi Germany, but the Weimar Republic... at least that's the one i've read, though as nothing makes sense anyway it could also be Nazi Germany, because why the fuck not.

I think there's a gadzillion different variants to the general idea, be it Weimar Republic or Nazi Germany. The key point to them is that current Germany doesn't have authority over them, because it technically isn't a legit country.

[Mayhem]

I think there's a gadzillion different variants to the general idea, be it Weimar Republic or Nazi Germany. The key point to them is that current Germany doesn't have authority over them, because it technically isn't a legit country.

Yeah, it's all a conspiracy by the allied forces to keep Germany from being great again!

[Slant]

Oh well, that's awful.
I honestly blame this idiotic concept of obscuring intelligence at schools instead of celebrating it. Idiocracy starts with idiots not having to face the fact that their idiocy is a limitation and that intelligence is to be celebrated. Of all the policies our supposedly leftist government has enforced here in Greece nothing makes me more irate than the fact that they have abolished multiple rewards for excellency at school.
Education is the only solution.

I agree with you. Not sure what to do about that, but I think it's safe to say that we are suffering from severe underfunding of the educational branches at school levels. Primary, middle and high school levels need to foster the curiosity of those kids and make them want to learn more instead of being complacent in their ignorance.

[Slant]

Yeah, it's all a conspiracy by the allied forces to keep Germany from being great again!

I looked it up, you're right, it's very specific that they think we're the Weimar Republic. I think I encountered the rare breed of Reichsbürger + neo nazi group in my internet researches on this topic before. I didn't even know this taste of insanity existed until 2 years ago or so. Very obscure branch of people they are.

The most interesting bit is that letter conspiracy...



For reasons I never fully understood, that letter is said to prove the existance of a "chancellory file" in which Germany somehow pledges allegiance to the allied forces and every chancellor in Germany has to sign it upon assuming power.

Before anyone gets excited, it's been debunked as a fraud a long time ago. But alas, at some point they forced the chancellory to make a public response clarifying that such a chancellory file does not exist and that Germany isn't sovereign at the mercy of the allied forces only. It's pathetic how much these people waste everyone's time.

Edit: I'll stop posting more stuff now, sorry. It was just to reflect that these problems exist everywhere, even in Germany. And they will keep us busy until we can break the rule of Idiocracy that has gripped the US/UK now but is threatening to grip the rest of us as well.

[Iphie]

They think we're still nazi Germany, because West Germany was not properly founded and is a secret satelite state controlled by the US Government (or the allied forces UK, France and US, rather). Thus they delegitimize anything German authorities do, deny police any authority, don't pay taxes and so on and so forth. If confronted with German authority, they will clog the bureaucratic system with an endless stream of bullshit requests and letters with all kinds of crazy ideas.

Oh, and for some reasons, they're usually armed up to the teeth. Illegally, of course. But as part of the conspiracy theory and "prepper" fringe groups, they think they need to be able to defend themselves against the illegal German state. Dangerous bullshit if you ask me. Look it up, the term they coined for themselves is Reichsbürger.

So...you have your own frikkin' sovereign citizen movement?

[Slant]

So...you have your own frikkin' sovereign citizen movement?

Yeah, we do. That was the name I couldn't think of earlier. Amazing, isn't it.

[BTHSE]

Look it up, the term they coined for themselves is Reichsbürger.

Oh. My. God. I just know there is a "Nichts Burger" joke to be made here but I do not have enough context / know enough German to think of a good one.

[Noradin]

Oh. My. God. I just know there is a "Nichts Burger" joke to be made here but I do not have enough context / know enough German to think of a good one.

"Arms-Burger"?

[Dhrizzle]

They think we're still nazi Germany, because West Germany was not properly founded and is a secret satelite state controlled by the US Government (or the allied forces UK, France and US, rather). Thus they delegitimize anything German authorities do, deny police any authority, don't pay taxes and so on and so forth. If confronted with German authority, they will clog the bureaucratic system with an endless stream of bullshit requests and letters with all kinds of crazy ideas.

Oh, and for some reasons, they're usually armed up to the teeth. Illegally, of course. But as part of the conspiracy theory and "prepper" fringe groups, they think they need to be able to defend themselves against the illegal German state. Dangerous bullshit if you ask me. Look it up, the term they coined for themselves is Reichsbürger.

That's not unique to Germany, try googling "sovereign citizens" or "freeman on the land." Most of the YouTube videos are hilarious but (in the US at least) they're considered a major domestic terrorist threat.

[Slant]

That's not unique to Germany, try googling "sovereign citizens" or "freeman on the land." Most of the YouTube videos are hilarious but (in the US at least) they're considered a major domestic terrorist threat.

That was my original point. That this idiocy is not limited to the us and we would do well to pay attention to counteract the rise of idiocrasy.

[Demolitia]

That was my original point. That this idiocy is not limited to the us and we would do well to pay attention to counteract the rise of idiocrasy.

That's a very valid and interesting point. Maybe for another thread. There was a time when such people were ignored, or simply dismissed as crazy by the media (the Alex Jones interview with the BBC comes to mind). Now with the internet those people have very easy ways to spread their crazy ideas. Anyone can make a crappy video with fancy music, nice stock pictures and crappy statements and people will just share/spread it without checking.
As a kid I was taught to check the encyclopedia or the dictionary if I didn't know something. Now with on internet it's easier than ever to fact check things, but it can also be confusing as hell.
How do we reconcile the freedom of press with the duty of proper journalism and fact checking? How do we teach kids where to get reliable info ? Do we need more regulations for news on the web ? Who should do it ?

[Demolitia]

Sounds a lot like the idiot Sovereign Citizens that exists in some countries.

That's exactly what has been discussed in the last 1-2 pages of the thread. The problem is that those idiots take a disproportionate amount of time and money to handle. They get owned in the end, but if they're good at it they can play the judicial clock pretty well.

[Dhrizzle]

The trouble with movements like Sovereign Citizens is it attracts dumb-but-harmless kids who think they've found an awesome way of sticking it to the man/a cheat code for an easier life and they act as a smokescreen for the sinister and dangerous people behind it.

[Slant]

That's a very valid and interesting point. Maybe for another thread. There was a time when such people were ignored, or simply dismissed as crazy by the media (the Alex Jones interview with the BBC comes to mind). Now with the internet those people have very easy ways to spread their crazy ideas. Anyone can make a crappy video with fancy music, nice stock pictures and crappy statements and people will just share/spread it without checking.
As a kid I was taught to check the encyclopedia or the dictionary if I didn't know something. Now with on internet it's easier than ever to fact check things, but it can also be confusing as hell.
How do we reconcile the freedom of press with the duty of proper journalism and fact checking? How do we teach kids where to get reliable info ? Do we need more regulations for news on the web ? Who should do it ?

I often compare the rise of the internet with bookprinting. It has certain similarities. Spread of information is sped up, access is easier than before (books were a lot cheaper afterwards) and many people were excluded until they became literate. It took us well into the 19th if not 20th century to have widespread literacy. And for the internet, we're only, what... 20 years in? We've barely begun to be "internet literate". We need to teach ourselves and the next generation to filter information properly. Sort the good from the bad. That's the key issue. As crazy as the ideas may be, as long as we support the idea of pluralistic opinions, we'll need to figure out which idea is good and which is bad. And that's the thing going wrong these days. People can't differentiate between serious sources and bullshit. And bullshit usually tends to be garnished with more fancy stuff, made easier to digest. A lie is easy to sell, just spin it around until it sits well. The truth, on the other hand, is often much harder to swallow and very inconvenient.

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So, to get this back on track. I am now watching the PMQs and it is as I feared. The British Government apparently is deluded beyond any reason. They actually want to tax non-EU imports based on their "final destination". And they assume that when something is marked for the UK, it will actually end up in the UK and not be sold to another in-between who then sells it on into the EU. That is pure fantasy and will get rejected by the EU without any further debate. How can they actually think that giving something like that a fancy new name is going to deceive anyone? This is ridiculous...



Emily Thornberry asked exactly the right questions.