Druid Woes

[Jaewalk]

It is very powerful, just because you dont see them in MDI doesnt mean its not powerful.

Everyone wants a self sustain in MDI because the healer only has to pay attention to 4 other players, has nothing to do about anything but self-sustain. And were you in the MDI? if not then bears are definitely fine.

Can you read? I never said it wasn't powerful, I just said it wasn't OP for M+.

Self sustain is part of it, but also better damage and more utility to top it off... Paladins/DH/DK all run much higher keys than bears...

why do you think nobody wants a bear druid past keystone 20 - yeah there is the rare case where a handful are carried but GL finding a group on your own.. If roar was so OP you would--- and yes, I run keys up to 25ish. - and the problem--- bear druids are only getting worse for BFA..ROTS gone is huge, lowest DPS lowest utility tank bar none.

[Deleted]

Im a simple man. I've played resto druid as my main since I started playing in TBC, I've always found it fun and I enjoy the hots playstyle so you guys can sit here complaining about innervate nerfs and other shit, I'll still be cruising along on the druid having fun watching green numbers fly everywhere.

Druids, just like every other class have good and bad expacs and if you're one of them number pushing top o da meters type people and this isnt a druids expac then just reroll and come back when the buff wheel points at druids again. If you just like the certain playstyle of whatever druid spec you play and you're not too pushed about meter whoring or best possible spec then just keep playing whatever druid spec you like.
Its been 14 years of whining at every patch but it's not going to change, either suck up the changes or move onto a class thats in line with your goals of the next expac.

[wakii]

Im a simple man. I've played resto druid as my main since I started playing in TBC, I've always found it fun and I enjoy the hots playstyle so you guys can sit here complaining about innervate nerfs and other shit, I'll still be cruising along on the druid having fun watching green numbers fly everywhere.

Druids, just like every other class have good and bad expacs and if you're one of them number pushing top o da meters type people and this isnt a druids expac then just reroll and come back when the buff wheel points at druids again. If you just like the certain playstyle of whatever druid spec you play and you're not too pushed about meter whoring or best possible spec then just keep playing whatever druid spec you like.
Its been 14 years of whining at every patch but it's not going to change, either suck up the changes or move onto a class thats in line with your goals of the next expac.

I think people are not just concerned about meters, for me its more about the new play style. Coming from a hot spamming class and jumping while doing this to a stationary Regrowth spamming one is actually a game mechanic change I don't like at all. This can be the reason for me to switch to a more complex healing or dps class just as the new mechanic don't fit my idea of a resto druid. However if they buff a bit our hots this might change again. Lets just wait for prepatch and a lot of "the sky is falling qq".

[Deleted]

I think people are not just concerned about meters, for me its more about the new play style. Coming from a hot spamming class and jumping while doing this to a stationary Regrowth spamming one is actually a game mechanic change I don't like at all. This can be the reason for me to switch to a more complex healing or dps class just as the new mechanic don't fit my idea of a resto druid. However if they buff a bit our hots this might change again. Lets just wait for prepatch and a lot of "the sky is falling qq".

I think hots have always been a bit balls at the start of an expac though, kinda similar to afflic warlocks where it takes 1 or 2 tiers of gear before scaling(and maybe a buff) start to see them really take off. I usually dont keep an eye on expac changes too much and like the discovery of it in the prepatch or when the expac lands because I know myself I'll level the druid first and then my rogue after and thats the only 2 characters I play(I might also just like having stealth)

[RestoSpirit]

It depends on how tightly fights are tuned, but if healer mana is at all a limiting factor (which it should be if healing specs and fights are tuned tightly), it's absolutely something that is impactful...

Exactly that. Of course Innervate seems to be useless when you look at normal or heroic fights. Most mythic healers can 2 or 3-heal 20man heroic raids right from release. So yeah for half the raiding population Innervate, or to be more precise mana-management is never an issue. Its a whole different story when talking about mythic raiding, where you are often facing tight dps-checks/ enragetimers and you need to underheal certain fights. Even if you make the dps check my guild always tries to underheal fights so we can skip mechanics (less fight time = less time to fail). Manaregen or free casting time no matter from which source become insanely valuable. We like to take at least 2 balance druids for each raidtier with the option to switch to heal or tank depending on the fight. Its one of the most versatile classes in the game and when we have the option to 3-heal a fight and use 2 boomkins instead of 2 hunters/warlocks/mages and a forth healer we will always do so, because in most scenarios one extra dps-player in the raid is more overall raiddps then 2 "better" dpsclasses.

But, yeah, I would love to see the spell just deleted, because it's a stupid spell in general.

I can see why you and 90% of the playerbase feel like this. Its definitly correct that Innervate leads to a lot of frustration in raidinggroups/guilds, but I think most of that comes from bad raidleading/ bad assignments in the group, especially when it comes to healers. When progressing the most important thing is to kill the boss while enjoying your time and the best assignment at least for most of the legion content (I didnt raid Argus so take it with a grain of salt) for our guild was a 3 part healing setup.

- One Restodruid for the general throughput and most of the grouphealing
- One Restoshaman for CDs, backup grouphealing and backup spothealing depending on the fight
- One Holypaladin for spothealing, externals and bubble (being able to pop bubble and keep healing while the rest of the raid needs to play a mechanic)

For this setup Innervates/Wisdom, Mana-Buffs from Raidmechanics would always go to the Restodruid (at least for progress). Of course it is more fun to get all of the buffs and keep pushing your class to be actually gcd-capped and not mana-capped. The good thing is, after you kill the boss the other healers can get the buffs and try it out too. You would deny this setup/concept with removing Innervate and would force most guilds to play the standard 4-healer-setup. It takes a certain amount of skill and understanding of the fightmechanics to underheal fights. You as a mythicraider might not realize this but most healers can't do what you, me and other mythic healers can do with their class given unlimited mana. They wont miss innervate because they don't push their class to the limit, but it doesn't hurt them to have it either. The only benefit I see for removing a spell that adds an extra layer of skill to the healer are more balanced logs. Even when logs wouldn't exist I would still want to underheal fights for the challenge, for the excitement and for the possibility to skip mechanics.

Cheers

Spirit

[MatthewOU2015]

Balance is juicy on the beta so far, whats wrong with it? They top the meters on all dungeons (normal level 120) plus they are beasts in PvP

[Unholyground]

Is Guardian really that bad? I was going to use Druid for my main tank this expansion and have yet to try it on beta.

[Arlee]

Is Guardian really that bad? I was going to use Druid for my main tank this expansion and have yet to try it on beta.

It's boring and we don't have the utility we used to so for things like Highly level M+we won't be as desired as other tanks. But we'll preform fine at raiding and dungeons in general, just anyone who min maxes everything won't be looking at us really. Also... like I said it's boring. There's nothing fun and we don't really have any abilities that are situationally fun so blah.

[Unholyground]

It's boring and we don't have the utility we used to so for things like Highly level M+we won't be as desired as other tanks. But we'll preform fine at raiding and dungeons in general, just anyone who min maxes everything won't be looking at us really. Also... like I said it's boring. There's nothing fun and we don't really have any abilities that are situationally fun so blah.

Maybe I should go test it tonight, did they remove nay abilities?

[Arlee]

Maybe I should go test it tonight, did they remove nay abilities?

I think the only thing removed is RotS and the extra Thrash procs because both of those were from the artifacts weapon, but with those and then the addition of all the things being on the GCD it's just kind of boring. FR is sort of pointless.

[Unholyground]

I think the only thing removed is RotS and the extra Thrash procs because both of those were from the artifacts weapon, but with those and then the addition of all the things being on the GCD it's just kind of boring. FR is sort of pointless.

So basically they made it mandatory to go Restoration Affinity for soloing content, Also FR being on GCD and a 36 sec CD seems like two slaps to the face but I will manage.

[kran1um]

Maybe I should go test it tonight, did they remove nay abilities?

They removed an overpowered button. wont notice a thing otherwise.

[hulkgor]

Now that Druids are shaping up to be one of the worst classes across all roles for BFA; what will you be rerolling to? And if not why?

Gotta love the doom and gloom buddy.

Me? I'm staying boomkin.

- - - Updated - - -

It's boring and we don't have the utility we used to so for things like Highly level M+we won't be as desired as other tanks. But we'll preform fine at raiding and dungeons in general, just anyone who min maxes everything won't be looking at us really. Also... like I said it's boring. There's nothing fun and we don't really have any abilities that are situationally fun so blah.

Implying it wasn't boring for most of Legion? But since it was OP it doesn't matter. Got it

[Yunaqt]

Switching back to Resto Druid from MW, only went MW for Antorus to round out the roster so my plan was for it to be temporary.

Enjoy Resto Druid far more than the other classes so wasn't a hard decision. Also enjoy having Guardian as my offspec, so a small bonus.

[exochaft]

So basically they made it mandatory to go Restoration Affinity for soloing content, Also FR being on GCD and a 36 sec CD seems like two slaps to the face but I will manage.

FR on the GCD is really annoying, mostly because we've been used to hitting it at specific instances to maximize it's power. I hate using the word, but it does feel rather 'clunky' on the GCD, especially when trying to weave it in between spells (latency makes it worse). Considering the delay installed into BfA's FR, it's role as an ability is pretty anemic. The change is slightly confusing even when viewed from the general tanking perspective, as we certainly weren't the most self-sustaining tanks to begin with and as well as the change not being offset by anything. This is one of those "Alright Blizz, tell me what you're thinking so we're on the same page" kind of things, kind of wish they did a water cooler type post concerning their goals for the tank classes... as some of the changes are downright confusing.

[BoomkinHell]

Balance tops the charts in BFA dungeons if the boomkin is the only good player in the group.

Balance is around 3rd last for numbers because our single target is atrocious. It will look good if you're playing with bad-to-average players. You cannot use personal anecdotes from ptr to justify Balance being good in bfa. Normally, the aoe encounters are pretty quick if everyone knows their priority rotation. So I'm lucky to get more than 2-3 starfalls for each group pull but the dmg is there with the lunar splash. If you like single-target damage, play a different spec. It took half a year for Balance to even get looked at after Legion launch so don't expect any changes. I mean jesus, even on the +15 bfa mythic streams, the disc priest and tank would outburst the boomkin on single-target.

[Unholyground]

FR on the GCD is really annoying, mostly because we've been used to hitting it at specific instances to maximize it's power. I hate using the word, but it does feel rather 'clunky' on the GCD, especially when trying to weave it in between spells (latency makes it worse). Considering the delay installed into BfA's FR, it's role as an ability is pretty anemic. The change is slightly confusing even when viewed from the general tanking perspective, as we certainly weren't the most self-sustaining tanks to begin with and as well as the change not being offset by anything. This is one of those "Alright Blizz, tell me what you're thinking so we're on the same page" kind of things, kind of wish they did a water cooler type post concerning their goals for the tank classes... as some of the changes are downright confusing.

It doesn't look like any of the abilities are off GCD

[Teph]

Balance seems good.

Restodruid is meh. Don't like regrowth as your single target heal without alternative. Rejuv feels very weak outside of the 200% effect from talent.

Bear is just absolute dogshit. I don't care how tanky they can make him, even if he will be the best boss tank it doesn't matter. Playstyle is boring. Not a single exciting thing about it. Especially for m+ it hurts, if you compare him to other tanks. There is not a single reason to use it or justify inviting one to your group.
For me bear is the spec that needs an overhowl the most of all specs.

[Arlee]

Implying it wasn't boring for most of Legion? But since it was OP it doesn't matter. Got it

Compared to Legion playstyle Guardian is extremely boring on beta. Which does not imply is wasn't at all boring in Legion but rather it is MORE boring in BfA. Hope that's clear enough for you to get it.

It doesn't look like any of the abilities are off GCD

Interrupt is off the GCD, so is Ironfur... I think that's it for Guardian.

[Glyphtics]

Imagine whinging about class balance when there are multiple tuning passes before Mythic raid release in BFA.