Forced personal loot = better balance for top 10 guilds

[SirCowdog]

No better raid bosses balance. They don't have to account for the fact that top guilds will get 3 months of loot in the first 2 resets so the bosses will not be significantly higher tuned just to counter splitfarming but spitting to other guilds face that needs half a year to catch up in gear and kill the same bosses just because they can't play 20 hours a day.

Again, that's a symptom of the loot system itself. They can keep trying to scramble to address all the problems created by the loot system, or they can actually fix the loot system at a fundamental level and get everything with a clean sweep.

The worst part is that forcing PL is a halfassed attempt at this. In typical Blizzard fashion, rather than come up with a more creative, nuanced solution that actually acknowledges different levels of play, they've used a sledge hammer and simply removed everything but one option.

As I said above, things like Valor points and Reforging might not have been perfect, but they were at least better than having everything be 100% RNG-based.

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You can't trade the loot if it means an upgrade to the character or have the same item at least once with the same ilvl.

Split raids where the comp is determined by armor and weapon types, in an attempt to fish for duplicate drops that CAN be traded.

[Bryci]

Split raids where the comp is determined by armor and weapon types, in an attempt to fish for duplicate drops that CAN be traded.

You don't need to tell me what split raiding is and how it worked but i'm telling in BFA you can't trade(the item is not tradable) the loot if it is an upgrade to the character. If you have a 340 ring and you drop a 360 ring you can't trade it to main raider because you have worse.

[Xirrohon]

You can't trade the loot if it means an upgrade to the character or have the same item at least once with the same ilvl or higher.

Its only based on ilvl, which is good because Blizz algorithm is stupid.

[Dartakan]

I think is funny that you think this will stop split raids in anyway. You know what top guilds will do? Clear heroic with 6-7 characters and take the one with the most gear into mythic. Probably stack classes with the same armor class so there is a better chance to trade loot and bis trinkets. You cant stop people that are that dedicated, Method made a video explaining how much they had to farm AP and legendaries in the first tier and nighthold, is kinda eye opening and you will see that Blizzard cant stop the top 10 from having that huge gap in terms of gear/power.

Just some examples, a lot of them farmed maw of souls 7-8 hours a day just to hit 35 ap so they could get the 5% damage increase. They also had to reroll when they find out there was a 4 legendaries "cap" and you were out of luck if you didnt get your bis, doing the AP farm all over again.

[Bryci]

I think is funny that you think this will stop split raids in anyway. You know what top guilds will do? Clear heroic with 6-7 characters and take the one with the most gear into mythic. Probably stack classes with the same armor class so there is a better chance to trade loot and bis trinkets. You cant stop people that are that dedicated, Method made a video explaining how much they had to farm AP and legendaries in the first tier and nighthold, is kinda eye opening and you will see that Blizzard cant stop the top 10 from having that huge gap in terms of gear/power.

Just some examples, a lot of them farmed maw of souls 7-8 hours a day just to hit 35 ap so they could get the 5% damage increase. They also had to reroll when they find out there was a 4 legendaries "cap" and you were out of luck if you didnt get your bis, doing the AP farm all over again.

Yes it won't stop split raiding but they won't go into mythic first week with full heroic gear as they did previously. Maybe if thye are super lucky one char no matter which will drop like 2-3 items but not a full set for a FACT.

[Helltribute]

ML is fine if you have a trustworthy guild, which you have the right to accept or not it's rules. Giving the leader that kind of management will always lead for the greater good in the end. That's a fact if you're considering it's a respectable guild. If "lazy players" are sucking gear in the guild that's a problem the guild have to solve, not ML's blame to begin with.

That said, leaving progression and races at RNG's mercy is pretty bad for organized guilds. Taking away the leader's prerogative of managing the best for the guild's growth is a step in the wrong direction. Progression should account the expertise of the leader in dealing with gearing it's guild and leading encounters, everything counts.

It's indeed a bad decision and I don't even raid to come at this conclusion.

[SirCowdog]

You don't need to tell me what split raiding is and how it worked but i'm telling in BFA you can't trade(the item is not tradable) the loot if it is an upgrade to the character. If you have a 340 ring and you drop a 360 ring you can't trade it to main raider because you have worse.

I think you missed the point of what I was saying.

Guilds will still attempt split raids. It will just be limited on the front end because of how trading is restricted. Determined guilds will still attempt a different type of split raiding that banks on getting drops that ARE tradeable by stacking classes with the same armor/weapon types. The more they get drops of the same type, the more they can trade.

So, the first couple of weeks maybe are full of drops which can't be traded. But they'll still be getting overall more drops in the long run. PL-only will slow down split raiding, but won't stop it.

[Yunaqt]

Surprisingly i'm less worried about forced personal loot than I thought I would. I'm kinda just impartial to it.

Maybe i'm just subconsciously selfish, since I play a healer so likely will end up getting a lot more gear than i'm used to.

[Dartakan]

Yes it won't stop split raiding but they won't go into mythic first week with full heroic gear as they did previously. Maybe if thye are super lucky one char no matter which will drop like 2-3 items but not a full set for a FACT.

You are underestimating them, is pretty doable to be full heroic in 1 week with mythic +. Just wait they will clear it just as fast and the gap wont shrink one bit between the top and the rest of the world.

[Valette]

My problem with this whole removal of ML debate is that all the arguments I see people use against master loot arent actually arguments for why it should be removed, but rather why that individual (and many others) prefer personal loot over master loot. And that is fine. Its great that you have a loot option you like, I don't think anyone is arguing that people should be forced to use master loot.

The argument that it stops split raiding just doesnt work, and even if it did its not a good argument. There are many better ways of "fixing split raiding" that doesnt affect the rest of the player base.

The simple fact is just that many people prefer master loot. For many different reasons. Some like the immersive feel of seeing loot on the boss' corpse. Some prefer the min maxing that gear funneling allows. Some prefer "currency" systems like epgp/dkp. Heck there probably are people out there who prefer it solely because of some weird sexual power fantasy. It honestly doesnt matter why people prefer it. Unless it takes away from the game, there really is no reason to remove it.

And before anyone claims it takes away from the game because someone somewhere had an item ninja looted, or they were in a guild where raiders had prior over trials and they disagree with it. Let me adress that. Ninjalooting barely happens anymore because ML requires a guild group, AND even so ninjalooting is a reportable offense. If you joined a guild group's pug and failed to have the leader clearly state the loot rules, Im sorry but thats on you. About the raider>trial issue. Again, if you failed to ask a guildmaster/raidleader about the guild's loot rules before joining, that is on you. And if you did ask but joined anyway, why did you join them in the first place?

Also. Before anyone attacks me calling me an egotistical lootcouncil prick who only advocates for ML because I abuse it. I'm not on a loot council. I have never been, and probably never will be on a loot council. I'm pretty sure I've never been favoritized and/or benefited from loot council abuse, and for most my raiding days I've played a healer who is low prior on gearing up. I also wouldnt be using master loot in bfa even if I could.

[Relapses]

Forced PL is perfectly balanced, as all things should be.

Just, you know, be careful if you suddenly don't feel so good anymore.