Elves druidism

[matrix123mko]

Yeah... It’s either a tauren or a troll.

Elves are trolls feasting on titan's blood, so I would call them more titanic than trolls. Tauren are wild god descendats, just like pandaren, tortollan, furbolg and harpy(except Malfurion).

Tauren were also changed by the Well. In fact even trolls were influenced by it. Mogu are also a titanic race that looks almost nothing like night elves, humans or others.

Ra-den was the most artistic keeper.

As for other elves embracing druidism, I don’t think it’s impossible. It’s just extremely hard.

Scientific druidism. They would treat it like another form of magic. They would be interested in ancient highborne magi who mixed arcane and druidism to aquire greater power. We already have botanists.

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Saying Thalassians are as much nature lovers as night elves because they keep eversong beautiful is like saying a guy who keeps a pristine and green lawn is as much a nature lover a guy who fights against deforestation, protects wildlife, etc. The guy who keeps the lawn probably couldn’t even care less if some wetlands a couple miles away are being paved over to make a shopping mall.

Druidism doesn't have to be belief. If thallasian priests are lightmancers, we can have nature mages who don't care about wild.

[alt-ithist]

Yeah... It’s either a tauren or a troll.

From what I understand of the chronicle, the life forms on Azeroth such as troll and taurens came from the experiments the Titan constructs were conducting when they created the vales. Then the blood of Azeroth mutated some of those trolls into elves. Good chance the elves are closer to azeroths image then the trolls are.

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Elves are trolls feasting on titan's blood, so I would call them more titanic than trolls. Tauren are wild god descendats, just like pandaren, tortollan, furbolg and harpy(except Malfurion).


Ra-den was the most artistic keeper.


Scientific druidism. They would treat it like another form of magic. They would be interested in ancient highborne magi who mixed arcane and druidism to aquire greater power. We already have botanists.

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Druidism doesn't have to be belief. If thallasian priests are lightmancers, we can have nature mages who don't care about wild.

Don’t get me wrong, I’m all for blood elf Druid, just not the Cenerius brand. The lore has already been gang raped bukake style so I’ll take an arcane Druid please. No nature lover because thalassians (and nightborne for that matter) are not nature lovers. Using the arcane to shapeshift and control nature is definately something thalassians would do. It would also give them back a bit of their edge they lost when their bloodknights became basic light worshipping paladins.

[Arcadine]

I definitely think that druidism is a form of expression from being in touch with natural elements and powers - not one specific magic.

I think it currently fits all the races it has been extended to, but in different ways, as many have already commented on.


Trolls have the Loa (spiritual), Tauren are wild god descendants and deeply connected to the elements and the earth (partially through shamanism) (ancestry, spiritual), Night Elves have been taught by Cenarius (magic) and Worgen have already been at the verge of becoming feral + NE took them in and taught them (curse, magic).

Zandalari is just a more ancient form of druid (spiritual), as well as Kul'Tiran being based on witchery and wicker traditions (magic, curse).


It would mean too much effort for Blizzard to diversify this in every druid beyond forms and their established culture - as in changing abilities to fit and so on - I respect this and enjoy the lore-fact behind it on the side.


These are my, not-so-original-or-groundbreaking, two cents in the discussion!

[ravenmoon]

This is blatantly untrue, they certainly share vague similarities but night elves and blood elves are literally night and day. Even Wowpedia points this out:

Why don't you try and make a list of everything you feel the night elves and other elves have in common and have different, you will find there is a reason why they are all called elves, and not a different race. They have far m ore in common than apart. Even with vastly different cultured, just like humans here on earth, even within the night elf group, you have 3 to 4 castle different orders with sub cultures and set up that vary greatly, yet they still have much more in common than not.

We are not defined by what we do, but who we are.

While you make some good points about night elves, as a person who once got carried away with his first impressions of them, it really worth only taking what blizzard has said and shown about them, you would find their presentation while different, still rich and full. My first 2 avatars were a night elf moonlit and druid, and I use to rave about their connection to nature and purist ideals, the arcane was the past, troll heritage a mistake, night elves were on the level of dragons and such....while I got a lot of things right, I also missed a lot of things, so I read through all their lore books, Wc3, played through wow again, I was surprised for example how much the arcane was intertwined with them despite having a ban on spells, and realised the distinction too, also how similar they were to high elves, they were just more intense with their magic and activities where high elves came of more humanized, like human nobles.

The night elves were certainly more than meets the eye. Enigmatic was a perfect description, looking at them in wow and their units , lands in Wc3 gave the impression of verdant forest elves vastly different from your high elf, until you read the lore and WotA that gave very precise explanations for everything and really showed you what these gipuys where made of and where they came from.

Suffice it say, my impression chanģed, though it was not as inflated an opinion as I once had of them, I found myself liking ,any other aspects that I hadn't noticed, that were there large as life telling different story to the one in my head, so I corrected myself.

I say this, because it is statements like what you have just said that convince me, you've taken an aspect of them and left some pretty core components out that if you had factored in, would never male you say such a thing

[Beloren]

Controlling nature and loving nature are not mutually exclusive, and in case you hadnt realised, the night elves can also be perceived as controlling nature. Depends on your point of view. So i wont use that as a reason to disqualify an entire race, especially when they can have enough indivduals that want purely devote themselves to their love for nature.

A purist would say, purely letting nature have it's way means not enhancing and directing it, which the night elves do a lot,,they moulded all of Val'sharah to reflect the dream, not to mention growing world trees all over, none of these occur in nature, and using moonwells to power feed their forests or wisps to regrow and heal dead trees or branches it's what elves do, and you could argue that they are not letting nature be.. Tauren and trolls would never be so vain or bother, they don't love nature in that manner.

To be honest, the night elves never once had a go at the high elves for the condition of Quel'thalas forests, wanna bet they would have found Eversong far preferable to any other forest any other race dwelt in save for the ones they tended. It is players that are looking for excuses to explain blizzard ignoring elven druids, where truth as @Mace said, blizz prob just didn't focus there or forgot to consider it, yet we jump on the bandwagon always trying to explain for them every reason why something is the way it is, esp when they haven't explained it, I think they probably just forgot about this fact.

Exactly, I’ve never understood those who use Quel’thalas’ eternal spring as some bad thing that disqualified them from being night elf mould druids. Night elves do far more controlling of nature - and only those who view doing anything to nature as bad because it is interfering with things going how they want would have a problem with it, as far as Warcraft shows, this is not the night elves - (why do I suspect people are borrowing philosophies from other games with druids and wood elves and ascribing them to night elves even when the lore shows something different. It is hypocritical to have a problem with high elves in nature and not have the same problem with night elves in the Warcraft universe, they are doing the same thing, night elves are worse at this than high elves.

So did night elves ever criticise High elves for this? Or is this one of the occasional things the community has interpreted wrong. Is it the whole community or just some?

I thought the only problem night elves had with high elves was breaking the ban on arcane magic which forced the exile, not how the high elves used magic, which turns out was a lot more responsible than the very humans the night elves faun over so much. , for a race that suffuses and pumps nature with arcane wells to make it better, I don’t see why the night elves won’t love quel’thalas Or what the high elves did, and won’t welcome any Thalassian who loves nature, they are actually a lot alike than I had first noticed. Elves use magic to boost everything - their division all harks back to when they used arcane magic when it was banned, not on how it was used

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The Emerald Dream is basically a blueprint of an Azeroth unaffected by sapient creatures. So essentially the druids just restored that area to what it looked like prior to the rise of the kaldorei. Contrast this with Thalassian elves who bend and twist nature to suit their wants and desires. If a blood elf wants a flower to bloom he'll cast magic to make it bloom, if a blood elf doesn't want it to snow he modifies the climate regardless of how environmentally detrimental that would be long term.

Firstly, stop, just stop. You are generalising blood elves, and they aren’t the only non-Kaldorei elven or Thalassian group, not everyone one behaves like that and you have no evidence of a blood elf doing that. You are making this statement based on the behaviour of blood elves during the TFT to TBC era, and the lore showed you 1. Not all blood elves were like that, 2. Blood elves as a whole got redeemed. I have noticed you don’t seem to update your lore or it’s interpretation, you are trapping blood elves by this generalisation to an era, and I saw you did the same with night elves and the highborne. Things have moved on since Outland TBC for Belves, and things have moved on for NElves since the long vigil ended I. wC3 - consider that..

Not every blood elf or all blood elf society has to fit the Druid mould for druids to be possible, you just need some. Of humans, Tauren and trolls can become druids, Thalassian elves certainly should be able too also.

If making a flower bloom when you want to is some great Druidic sin or disqualification, then forget all those plants in pots Druidic night elves, yes, not just any night elf, the Druidic ones have in their home, or the flowers that bloom in winter when Cenarius or Malfurion walk by, they are making flowers bloom where they are not supposed to, according to your Druid law, this shouldn’t happen.

There are clearly cases individuals, whether night elf, Thalassian elf, human, troll, whatever racehas abuses nature and abused magic, yes even some druids have, I don’t see it as some codified in lore or law reason why elves can’t be druids or shouldn’t be druids

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I definitely think that druidism is a form of expression from being in touch with natural elements and powers - not one specific magic.

I think it currently fits all the races it has been extended to, but in different ways, as many have already commented on.


Trolls have the Loa (spiritual), Tauren are wild god descendants and deeply connected to the elements and the earth (partially through shamanism) (ancestry, spiritual), Night Elves have been taught by Cenarius (magic) and Worgen have already been at the verge of becoming feral + NE took them in and taught them (curse, magic).

Zandalari is just a more ancient form of druid (spiritual), as well as Kul'Tiran being based on witchery and wicker traditions (magic, curse).


It would mean too much effort for Blizzard to diversify this in every druid beyond forms and their established culture - as in changing abilities to fit and so on - I respect this and enjoy the lore-fact behind it on the side.


These are my, not-so-original-or-groundbreaking, two cents in the discussion!

it’s nice that there can be different kinds of druidsm just like priesthood’s, but my point is the night elf druidsm suits all elves more than it does Tauren or Trolls or humans. I’m happy that now they get a defined form of druidsm introduced, but the night elven Cenarius taught one is totally elven, I would imagine nature loving high elves, blood elves, void elves, nightborne, highborne find it easy to follow, moreso than trolls or humans or even Tauren. It was a devotion to nature built on love of nature intrinsic in all elves.

The elves may have been the first to study and master the arcane, as well as Druidic magic, and their form of both may be the most advanced and powerful even, because magic is their strong suit, but it doesn’t have to be the only one.

They didn’t have to tie Tauren druidsm to night elven one, but they did, however to say somehow other elven branches like Thalssians or castes and sub races like highborne and nightborne somehow qualify less because it hasn’t happened yet or some bogus “doesn’t make sense “ reason like arcane magic or quel’thalas Beautifully spring time is silly and again DOESNT MAKE SENSE. A far better explanation is the elven connection has been overlooked like the other guy said above. It’s true fans do occasionally pick out things the devs overlook, and fans occasionally also get things wrong about certain parts and groups in the lore.

And isn’t what the entire conflict is based on, one group getting it wrong about the other no matter how small in some cases the error is or only a single mistake as opposed to many and the story shows it leading to war. That is classic Warcraft

[Techno-Druid]

Why don't you try and make a list of everything you feel the night elves and other elves have in common and have different, you will find there is a reason why they are all called elves, and not a different race. They have far more in common than apart.

Similarities

• Elves

• Have an ancient of conflict with trolls

• Embracing magic of some type

• Have a shared ancient history

Thalassian Elves

• Diurnal

• Arcane and Light-based

• Male-dominated (at least militarily)

• Nearly human-sized

• Pale/pink skin

• Historically very decadent

• Somewhat feudal in terms of societal status (Kings, lords/ladies, etc)

• Culturally revolved around the Sunwell

Night Elves

• Nocturnal

• Nature-oriented

• Female-dominated (in regards to historic positions of authority and military)

• Nearly seven feet tall

• Violet skin

• Theocratic

• Polytheistic or Hedonistic in nature with the highest deification reserved for Elune

• Deeply spiritual

Sure they can both be classed as elves and have a common ancestry, but they have biological differences as well that make them seperate races. It's not just cultural (although your comment on their divergent culture implies a concession to the fact that they are literally night and day culturally), they're biologically distinguishable with differing physiologies.

While you make some good points about night elves, as a person who once got carried away with his first impressions of them, it really worth only taking what blizzard has said and shown about them, you would find their presentation while different, still rich and full. My first 2 avatars were a night elf moonlit and druid, and I use to rave about their connection to nature and purist ideals, the arcane was the past, troll heritage a mistake, night elves were on the level of dragons and such....while I got a lot of things right

Well the arcane for kaldorei is still mostly in the past, sans the Highborne and their novices, which are themselves a minority with the latter sharing the modern nature-oriented culture of most kaldorei. The troll heritage was something that's been confirmed for forever now and I'm not sure how any nelf fan would be against that unless they were roleplaying in the forums or something.

I also missed a lot of things, so I read through all their lore books, Wc3, played through wow again, I was surprised for example how much the arcane was intertwined with them despite having a ban on spells, and realised the distinction too, also how similar they were to high elves, they were just more intense with their magic and activities where high elves came of more humanized, like human nobles.

The WoTA novels are a great part of Warcraft lore imo, but I'm not sure you understand that the Highborne, arcane-based society is what the night elves ultimately reject in place of a more nature-based existence. The only real arcane element of kaldorei aside from the obvious are moonwells which themselves are not utilized in the same way Thalassian elves use arcane magic.

It should be noted as well that night elves as a race are an amalgamation of drow and wood elf characteristics. In a Blizzard interview which I have to pull up again it states that they wanted to create a unique elf race and eventually opted to blend the best elements of drow/dark elves (goddess-worshipping, matriarchal, nocturnal) with wood elves to create the basic night elf. Blood elves have always encapsulated the traditional high elf fantasy while nightborne seemingly push deeper into representing the drow element of night elves.

Firstly, stop, just stop. You are generalising blood elves, and they aren’t the only non-Kaldorei elven or Thalassian group, not everyone one behaves like that and you have no evidence of a blood elf doing that.

I'm stating their culture, so while not every blood elf is the same in beliefs, they originate from a culture that does bend nature to its will like with turning Eversong into a single-season region, something that obviously has to be detrimental to any ecosystem.

You are making this statement based on the behaviour of blood elves during the TFT to TBC era, and the lore showed you 1. Not all blood elves were like that, 2. Blood elves as a whole got redeemed. I have noticed you don’t seem to update your lore or it’s interpretation, you are trapping blood elves by this generalisation to an era, and I saw you did the same with night elves and the highborne. Things have moved on since Outland TBC for Belves, and things have moved on for NElves since the long vigil ended I. wC3 - consider that..

I'm basing this off the behavior of the Thalassian elves ever since high elves in the way we know them as have existed, since I'm assuming that's when Quel'thalas was founded.

Not every blood elf or all blood elf society has to fit the Druid mould for druids to be possible, you just need some. Of humans, Tauren and trolls can become druids, Thalassian elves certainly should be able too also.

Well tauren and trolls are already druidic societies. Tauren worship Mu'sha (Elune) as well as An’she (Sun) and were even close to Cenarius back when they were yaungol. Trolls have always worshipped the Loa, which are wild gods, animal deities connected to the Emerald Dream. Gilneas Harvest Witches and death druids (which don't even make much sense on their own considering druidism is inherently based upon life magic and death is tied the void) are basically to druids what Sunwalkers are to paladins.

[Mace]

I would definitely disagree, seeing as the only arcane connection Post-Sundering kaldorei had was with the moonwells. .

The huge massive arcane WELL of ETERNITY, the entire kaldorei race story revolves around begs to disagree wtih you.


You seem to be trying so hard to either ignore, wish away, margnialise, the very present arcane basis of the night elves, it is in their core, their make up, their story, characterising everything they do (or don't do), it is the founding core, and as much a part of them as Elune or love of nature. When you focus on the priests, you will hear much more about Elune than nature or the arcane, but the rest of the story tells you that nature and the arcane are also a core part of the kaldorei. When you focus on the druids, you will hear a lot more about nature, but Elune and the arcane are also a core part of them. (just because some of their numbers idd not use the arcane for spell does not mean it was not a core partof them and at the centre of their focus, both infilling them (glowy eyes) and protected by the tree, which it also empowered, allowing them to benefit from the dragons blessings and thus avoid temptation to start using it again to gain eternal life like they did pre-sundering. And when they focus on the mages, you hardly hear much of nature or Elune, but they are also a core part - you just need to listen to every night elf mage in cataclysm, you even see some of the new ones wield both nature and arcane magic in Azshara, and fi that was not enough, the much older Farondis highborne say Elune be praised, or thank the Goddess even though they are not devoted believers, send you out to reduce the number of pests, or save the gardens and landscape from those defiling and destroying it, or see the nightborne still care for nature, even though the botanist in the Nighthold gets twisted, however he is not the only one, nightborne mages, hunters, warriors rogues under Elisande all get twisted, so don't use that as som soort of indication that the botanists didn't some how love nature either.

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Although it could be argued that the Well of Eternity and similar fonts of power actually create pseudo-Titanic races which would explain why elves and jinyu look closer to humans and kin compared to trolls and murlocs respectively.

Now this I agree with you.

But you must also note how the night elves differ, for one, they were transformed from an already fully intelligent and sentient race, dark trolls - this is unlike the predecessors of the Pandaren, Jinyu, Tauren etc. They were the only group to stay around the Well of eternity and were drawn to it - end of WotA confirms their arcane essence (hence their affinity to magic) and Legion again confirms it via VAlewalker Farodin and Thalyssra. Their elevation causes them to discern and perceive the Goddess Elune, which they claim is the one that moulded them through power of the arcane power of the well into elves.

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I would argue that Azeroth herself is an elf, just like Argus resembles Draenei.

That would be very interesting, and make sense, although knowing blizzard, Azeroth would look like a human and they would forget they already gave humans an appearacne from other titans, to make Azeroth even slightly altered into a pointy eared goddess, nah, I doubt blizzard would do that, be interesting if they did though

I have no problem with non-elf druids.
Tauren and worgen druids actually learned from night elves, even with a drop of knowledge these two races had on fundamental druidism, they still needed elves to help them reach their full potential. This is a minor, but still a tribute to the fact that night elves are original druids. Add to that the Darkspear druids being first beings that reached their druid status without any elf support, but still joining Cenarion Circle (lets face it, this is a night elf organization with some special friends allowed).
From my perspective, this class has been so overwhelmingly elven that the whole Zandalari/Kul’Tiran druids with their own view of this craft and origin, is extremely refreshing.

As for other elves embracing druidism, I don’t think it’s impossible. It’s just extremely hard.

.

I agree with everything but your last statement, but only because i desire it differently rather than have any factual basis to shoot it down, it's your opinion, as my disagreeing with it is also mine, who's to say yours isn't right, or mine is? But for the rest. They really did keep the druidsm part of the elven club only, because that was it's root. And i think that is the entire point of the OP here, aside from the new druids in BFA, which I also admit is refreshing, night elven druidsm is built around elven concepts oand personality - it is built on love for nature, not necessarily the sort of respect and reverence/fear for it shamanistic races have. you don't see them cuddle flowers, or love to see them grow, and have beautiful lucush gardens in their ctiesies or try to live in teh actual trees themselves etc.. this is what druidsm is based on, pure nature love, and it is a very elven thing because they love like that. I think the point of the OP, which i 100% agree on is that the same love of nature is present in the other elven groups, and this pre-disposes them to the night elven druidmsm moreso than other races, and as such should have been given the chance to also be druids.

Manyh of the arguments against I think this discussion has shot down, arguments that they twist nature is false, even if some individuals do, like they twist everything, there is genuine love there, arguments that arcane and nature don't mix, is also false - that is borne from a misudnerstanding of both the night elves and blizzard lore which some of these arguers fail to note shows you nature enhanced by the arcane, so an arcane society won't have problems with loving nature or be excluuded from it because they wield the arcaen - and thsoe arguers also mis-understand the nature of the druids, the druids dint' oppose the arcane, the opposed the use ofarcane magic for sorcery - and not out of hate or because it was bad - hennce now when their is no ban on the arcane, wwhy should any race that has great arcane wielders amongst it somehow not be able to follow druidsm? the night elves themselves are the greatest arcane wielders andit is some of their number that deeveloped druidsm in the first place, . Night elves don't hate arcane users and thus won't ever train hthalassian elves, highborne or nightborne who wanted to learn.. tha'ts nonsense, most of the first druids were highborne and moonguard who gave up that calling when the ban came in place - if new highborne, nightborne or thalassians want to take up fhte call of nature to the extreme the night elves have developed, they would not be denied by any night elf.

It is a bit contrary to think the night elves would except enemies like the trolls, strangers like humans and tauren but some how exclude willing elves from the other groups. And it is equally silly to think that no Thalassian, highborne or nightborne would want to learn when each group has been shown they have some hard core dedicated nature lovers.

Night elves baanned the use of the arcane for spells to prevent the legion from coming back to Azeroth, they didn't ban the arcaner. And they didn't hate either, it was just too dangerous to use, and that period has ended - as you see they work with blue dragons, work with humans, draenei and high elves who all use arcane magic, not to mention a druid is at the heart of healing the nightborne.

The evidence is bloody there, I would wager some here are just not use to think ing of it in that manner, but once you actually think about it, it makes sense.

Saying Thalassians are as much nature lovers as night elves because they keep eversong beautiful is like saying a guy who keeps a pristine and green lawn is as much a nature lover a guy who fights against deforestation, protects wildlife, etc. The guy who keeps the lawn probably couldn’t even care less if some wetlands a couple miles away are being paved over to make a shopping mall.

Except it's not the only evidence. Loving lush forests like they do, as you clearly see they protect fervently with the farstriders who love the woods, having botanists who also study nature fervently and extend and boost hteir magical mastery of it, are all indications too. CAring for the treant tenders and using them to help grow , maintain, and protect thhe forest is also evidence, as well as visible sadness at having to destroy them not because they don't want them or hate nature, but because their efforts are inadvertently spreading the dead scar.

And don't forget that loving a beautiful garden or lawn is not nothing either - ththere are those who don't care one bit for that and prefer steel, stone and gllass in an advanced metroplis where nature has no place - cos they hate trees, hate bugs, hate wild life and much prefer a dead environment. There are races in wow like that, but none of the elves are.

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Elves are trolls feasting on titan's blood, so I would call them more titanic than trolls. Tauren are wild god descendats, just like pandaren, tortollan, furbolg and harpy(except Malfurion).


Ra-den was the most artistic keeper.


Scientific druidism. They would treat it like another form of magic. They would be interested in ancient highborne magi who mixed arcane and druidism to aquire greater power. We already have botanists.



Druidism doesn't have to be belief. If thallasian priests are lightmancers, we can have nature mages who don't care about wild.

Exactly, i highlighted and underlined for good effect. The new gen kaldorei mages being instructed by the Highborne we meet in Azshara also blending nature and arcane magic together, indicating some of them may have been druids or druid students switching - and also indicates that the night elves were exploring utilising and combining two fields of magic they have great expert teachers in the druids/ancients and the highborne/moonguard.

Even amongst the night elves you would have those that go towards the arcane, and it is perfectly understandble that while an intrinsic love for nature exists within all elves, as love for the arcane does, there are those amongst the highborne, nightborne, thalassian elves who would go deeper into nature, the botanists are evidence of this, whether they actually love nature or not doesn't even need to be pre-requisite, although anyone who observes elves in wow, and sees them ALWAYS in lush forests, having lush gardens in their magical cities, and actually caring about the green spaces too - whether night elvesn or thalassian - regardless of the group (hgihborne, nightborne, kaldorei or high, blood), I would even guess void elves too even though we haven't seen that directly yet, Afterall, before teldrassil got burned, they were the only sub-race in Darnassus.

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Don’t get me wrong, I’m all for blood elf Druid, just not the Cenerius brand. The lore has already been gang raped bukake style so I’ll take an arcane Druid please. No nature lover because thalassians (and nightborne for that matter) are not nature lovers. Using the arcane to shapeshift and control nature is definately something thalassians would do. It would also give them back a bit of their edge they lost when their bloodknights became basic light worshipping paladins.

Personally, I don't think blizzard need to invent a new brand for them, the Cenarius brand is pretty much elven, rather it is the tauren, troll and humans that needed new brands for them.

Cenarius himself was never opposed to arcane magic, just the night elves addiction to it and obsession with it.. This is often mis-understood as wow fans are quick to find hate, and automatically assume it is the status quo and it would extend to more than it actually does. There would be Thalassians and night/highborne who would be able to go full on Cenarion druid, however it is equally possible that a new more fixed form of druidsm would also arise amongst them blending arcane and nature wielding, like those night elf novice mages in Azshara (cata timeline) or like Tel'arn and the botanists of the Nighthold.

However you also make a key error, Thalasssian and high/nightborne society isn't built on nature love like the rest of the Kaldorei society is, but to assume there isn't nature lovers amongst them or those that won't go to druidic degrees of love is not very plausible, possible ofc, but not plausible. You don't need the whole society to be devoted to druidsm ffs to have druids amongst them. You just need those who are willing to take that step. Again I call the instance of the night elves. Druidsm started in an ARCANE society, Malfurion was a one off individual amongst many who love nature, but certainly couldn't care to be devoted to it. Only the arcane and the goddess were their devotions (devotion is a deep worshipful regard of things, you can love something without being devoted to it - so night elves in that era, being very arcane, had a degree of love for nature, not enough to become druids), but from amongst that a druid arose, the first one.

It therefore stands to reason, that it doesn't matter how arcane thalassian, highborne or nightborne societies are, they can still have druids arise or people who want to study druidsm - this is how it happened in the night elves.. the night elves didn't become druids because their society was already deeply in love with nature. They had a deep love in their core, but obsession with the arcane dominated their activities.

Thalassians and Nightborne, highborne too (especially the last two) no longer have those degrees of obsession, they still love the arcane, the Thalassians are even more diversified in their love, there are those that love other things - the forest loving FArstriders, the light loving paladins and priests, so with societies that are all about magic, and no where near obsessed or addicted as they were 10k years ago, you think druids can't emerge from them because aspects of their soceity are arcane attuned? As if arcane and nature somehow are opposed? Exactly - OFF COURSE NOT!

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Similarities

• Elves

• Have an ancient of conflict with trolls

• Embracing magic of some type

• Have a shared ancient history

Thalassian Elves

• Diurnal

• Arcane and Light-based

• Male-dominated (at least militarily)

• Nearly human-sized

• Pale/pink skin

• Historically very decadent

• Somewhat feudal in terms of societal status (Kings, lords/ladies, etc)

• Culturally revolved around the Sunwell

Night Elves

• Nocturnal

• Nature-oriented

• Female-dominated (in regards to historic positions of authority and military)

• Nearly seven feet tall

• Violet skin

• Theocratic

• Polytheistic or Hedonistic in nature with the highest deification reserved for Elune

• Deeply spiritual

.

• Polytheistic or Hedonistic in nature with the highest deification reserved for Elune

[List]Deeply spiritual



that is a contradiction, and I think is one of the many reasons the RPG book was scrapped as canon, it is the only reference I have seen that frameees the nigholythesiitic society. And hedonistic.

You cannot bbe hedonistic and deeply spiritual - they oppose. Besides you really don't see instancees of hedonism in the n night elves.

And your list of simiarities is woefully small Techno, surely you can find far more in common, you didn't even allude to the pointy ears - as if whether one is inclined higher than another is that big a deal, the fact they have that. Love of nature and the arcane , affinity to all types of magic, love of beauty, high intelligence, longevity, perfectionism, principled (high elf sector mostly, but the blood elves are returning to that after a temporary diversion).


As Ravenomon points out there is a reason they are called ELF !!! no matter what prefix you attach. It Is night elf, nightborne elf, highborne elf, high elf, blood elf, void elf - if their differences out weighed their similarity, they would have a different name, I remember some fantasy anime I watched having Elves and Alves, alves were different enough to have a different name altogether.

You can point out the difference between a typical west african black and typical northern european white - like the elves, you have skin colour, but instead of ear angle, you have nose shape, one is hairier than the other, fuller lips than hte other - minor minor minor - you can point to cultural differences, but one and the same they are humans and you'd be suprirsed that there isfar much more in common both genetically and how they behave or react to the same pressures and circumstances, - the choices they make would be different, influenced by tehir learning and society/culture - but they will exhibit the same range of emotions, reactions, hesitations, contemplations etc etc,

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I thought the only problem night elves had with high elves was breaking the ban on arcane magic which forced the exile, not how the high elves used magic, which turns out was a lot more responsible than the very humans the night elves faun over so much. ,

It was and it is. People are just trapped in previous eras, not updating their lore or factoring in new insights, changes that really alter the perception of previous events. Soemthings are intentionally recast, but others aren't, tehyw ere intentionally kept secret as mysteries so they could be revealed later. And yes, the high elves were a lot more responsible than humans with magic - they knew the consequences of abuse.

[Techno-Druid]

I meant henotheistic, although most kaldorei including the Sisterhood could be considered polytheistic. Tyrande worships Elune as the highest deity, but she does not deny the divinity and deification of the Ancient Guardians and weeps when Goldrinn falls during the War of the Ancients.

You keep referencing Elune as being apart from nature, but is she not the consort of Malorne, the mother of Cenarius and the grandmother of the Children of Cenarius?

And sure, there are differences between human populations, but to my knowledge there are no nocturnal humans that can see in the dark with fangs and qausi-claws.

[Mace]

I meant henotheistic, although most kaldorei including the Sisterhood could be considered polytheistic. Tyrande worships Elune as the highest deity, but she does not deny the divinity and deification of the Ancient Guardians and weeps when Goldrinn falls during the War of the Ancients.

You keep referencing Elune as being apart from nature, but is she not the consort of Malorne, the mother of Cenarius and the grandmother of the Children of Cenarius?

And sure, there are differences between human populations, but to my knowledge there are no nocturnal humans that can see in the dark with fangs and qausi-claws.

But there is nothing in wow or the novels, including WotA, that indicates the night elves or Tyrrande deify the Ancient Guardians and certainly not worrship them, because they know exactly who and what they are. They reverence them, but Elune is the only true Goddess. I remember the polytheistic kaldorei being in the Warcraft RPG for sure, and it did feel a bit out of place like a few things were, because this is not how faith works, you either believe in one God, or you believe in many with different grades of power. Elune is the one-God variety, she alone is referred to as goddess by the night elves, not any of the Ancient Spirits or Wild Gods like Cenarius - the night elves call them Demi-gods not God. It doesn't make sense for them to be polytheistic. The trolls are though, the loa, spirits are their gods, and they have many, night elves just call them ancients, and a re friends with them, chill with them in the Emerald dream, work wtih them, fight with them. They don't demand worship from the night elves, though some of them have them as students - and those are always druids. The reason they are priests to wild gods amongst the trolls is because the trolls worship them, that demands a priests, druids are devoted to nature, in many respects that is worship, but it's not like the priest kind.

I don't remember referring to Elune as apart from nature, but she is a goddess, and not the consort of Marlone, she did something with Marlone to produce Cenarius, which I can only interpret that it was perceived in terms of long term relationships by a young night elven civilization, but that is as far as the myth goes. Elune is not part of nature, she is like the light, a divine being, possibly THE divine being, worshipped like the Light is worshipped. Elune and nature, the two are not interchangeable nor are they intertwined, the priesthood has always intertwined itself with the kaldorei society, whether it was arcane based or nature based, but the Goddess is her own entity, and sure she interacts with the natural world, as she does with sentient beings as she does with the arcane - (do not forget that she is perceived through the Well of Eternity first - not through nature and the priesthood call on her to purify arcane waters they set up as Moonwells.

Elune definitely connects both with nature and the arcane - and again is an indication of the trinity of the night elves - the arcane, Elune and nature. Cenarius teaches them nature, Elune teaches them the light or rather the moonlight, and they because of their nature, figure out the arcane.

As for humans , yes their are no nocturnal humans, I do feel there is a greater distiinction between the Thalassian group of elves and the night group of elves that there is between white and black humans, but not that much, however, I also agree that the similarities are far greater. I think it is the cultural diffeerences that are making you think they are so different. The nature society tthat was so different from the city society. But the same race can have great differences in culture and belief systems, but still have far more similarities. They are called elves for a reason, they aren't that different. Same righteous humility, think themselves better than everyone else.

[ravenmoon]

@Techno-Druid The best we can make is guesses and approximations of some of the things we have in wow lore.

I dont think the devs themselves have fleshed out or even bothered with half the thi gs we spend so much time debating

[sam86]

answer is easy: money
ppl will pay for race change when u see the far cooler druid forms of the new reskinned 'allied' races
as usual lore will bent and open its a88 for blizz to rape it to fit any gameplay they want, or in that case : reasons to get more cash from idiots (yes bobby kodick described us as idiots since ages, he hates gaming and gamers that much and probably went to gaming only due to collapse of many other industries in mid 2000s)

[Calfredd]

@Techno-Druid The best we can make is guesses and approximations of some of the things we have in wow lore.

I dont think the devs themselves have fleshed out or even bothered with half the thi gs we spend so much time debating

You aren't a bot account so what's with the 1 year necro?

[Arrashi]

You aren't a bot account so what's with the 1 year necro?

Why make a new elf thread when you can bring back old one ? Its a cycle of life (of elven threads).

[Rozz]

Closing. Do not necro old threads. If you want to discuss the same topic, please make a new one.